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RightNation.US: Leftist Talking Point Salad - RightNation.US

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I found an old colleague on Facebook and we had a spirited exchange recently. Well, that is to say, I made a few comments and asked a few probing questions and a few days later I received a leftist talking point salad. I noticed he was part of the group "Sarah Palin Scares Me" which really prompted the whole thing. Here's what I asked:

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I'm sad that you support the Democrats who, since they took control of Congress in '06, have orchestrated the mess we're in. When you're in debt, do you go out and spend money you don't have? Sarah Palin scares you? Do I scare you? Do guns scare you? Obama trying to reshape the country how HE wants it is scary to me.


This was the retort:

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I had to think for a couple of days on how to respond. .....


Now for the hard stuff...I have been a registered Democrat for a number of years though I was a Republican when I registered for my first election in 1988. Newt Gingrich really started the alienation process for me from the Republicans along with issues like abortion, gay rights, and immigration. I highly respect conservatives like the late William F. Buckley.

Though I might not agree with all his views, I know that he has well reasoned analysis of an issue with intelligent and civil discussion. The current crop of conservatives like Rush, Hannity, Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck, bear no resemblance to anything remotely intelligent, well reasoned or civil.

I find it funny that Fox News and these commentators during George W. Bush's administration would blindly support anything the administration did. If you didnt support President Bush, the War in Iraq, or all the Bush policies you were unpatriotic, and were directly supporting the enemies of the United States.

Now President Obama has been in office less 100 days and Rush and Hannity are wishing that he fails and talking about fascism and socialism and states seceeding. Not sure how that is patriotic. Disagreement and discourse are all part of the process but sometimes I think that self-promotion is more important than intelligent discussion

Also it is hard to believe that in 3 years a Democratic majority in congress could cause the global economic and financial market crisis. I think it is more likely that this situation is a result of dergulation, lax oversight, a housing bubble, easy and over extended credit.

President Bush ran up the deficit to finance the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Then made significant tax cuts. Not a prudent policy to cut revenues when you have some major expenditures. I guess it is okay since Dick Cheney said having deficits is a good thing.

Also remember that it was President Bush and Henry Paulson who proposed and distributed the $700 Billion with little or no oversight. Henry Paul, Richard Rubin, Edward Liddy. All former Goldman Sachs executives. Goldman Sachs still in business. Lehman Brothers allowed to fail. It seems partisanship has no bearing when it comes to this world of investment banking, those making financial policy are all coming from a small talent pool.

Sarah Palin did scare me. Or more accurately the kind of cynical populism that she was using during the campaign. Really reminded me of Robert Penn Warren's book All The Kings Men and the character of Willie Stark. At some point you have to ask the question what makes you qualified. If you dont have experience you need to at least show some curiosity about the world or an ability to understand issues and different perspectives. You cant respond to every question with "..I understand Joe six pack..I am an outsider and Maverick.."

I think there were many qualified female Rebuplicans that would have made a great VP, but Sarah Palin was not a good choice. Not my opinion but the opinion of John McCain's people at the end of the campaign. I thought it was pretty tasteless to throw Sarah Palin onto the stage, let here swing in the wind then totally bash her when the election is lost.

I dont think you scare me though we might want to discuss your hair :D

Guns scare me in the hands of criminals, minors, unstable people. There should be gun rights, but I dont think we should have gun show loopholes or have less control than say getting a drivers license.

Reshaping the country to allow affordable health insurance, less reliance on fossil fuel, return the civil rights taken away by the Bush administration all seem like good things to me. It is really too bad that the U.S. is the only industrialized nation without a health insurance plan that is not attached to an employer. One thing that I have seen very clearly is that it takes a job loss and or a major medical problem to really put a person or family into serious financial trouble or worse.

So I think we will have to agree to disagree.


Geez, where have I heard all that before? :D

I began to respond, then stooped and started again. Then I asked myself if it was worth the trouble. I've spent years here arguing many of these points with the lefties here and I know of none here that have ever been convinced of anything enough to change their mind with very few exceptions (you know who you are) so why waste my time? I thought I'd throw it up here for others to see and comment.

Meanwhile, this old friend will continue to fiddle during the coming years while Rome burns, evidently because Republicans are evil.

I would love to make this a regular thread topic to give folks something to throw around instead of tea-bags and sucking up to communists, but I'll start with this and see what happens.
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11 Comments On This Entry

If you do respond, my advice would be to take ONE point and one point only. This guy is so far in the tank he has forgotten how to breathe.

I remember a discussion we had while visiting my brother a while back. He and his wife were upset with Bush's "cowboy" image--and how bossy we appeared to the rest of the world.

It was then I realized that we have little in common any more.

So now, about all we discuss any more is "my hair."
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I agree, take on just one point and discuss it.
I'd suggest the tired old "Civil rights taken away by Bush".
In all the discussions I've had on RN and elsewhere, I have yet to find a single case where that claim can be substantiated.
Even though it's another of those "everyone knows" it 'truths'.
Good luck.
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Thanks and that's sound advice from both of you. If anyone else has a suggestion of a best single point to respond to I would appreciate the input. He used the old leftist strategy of bombarding your opponent with so many points that they force you to either try to responding to all of it allowing them to frame the discussion or hope you just give up due to being overwhelmed. The single point strategy would be best. I do know I will thank him for taking the time to respond if I decide to put any response together at all.
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Thats the problem with talking politics. Everyone has opinions, but too few people are willing to deal with FACTS.

Ask him to substantiate one or two of his claims. I would suggest centering on gun control (show him that there are several liberal laws in the works to further limit, or completely ban, firearms) and socialised healthcare. Just make sure you plan your arguments ahead of time, or at least research some strong points on the subjects.

The recent shooting at the anti-gun rally in the UK would be a good point to make :rolleyes:
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Txman, on Apr 18 2009, 10:07 AM, said:

Thats the problem with talking politics. Everyone has opinions, but too few people are willing to deal with FACTS.

Ask him to substantiate one or two of his claims. I would suggest centering on gun control (show him that there are several liberal laws in the works to further limit, or completely ban, firearms) and socialised healthcare. Just make sure you plan your arguments ahead of time, or at least research some strong points on the subjects.

The recent shooting at the anti-gun rally in the UK would be a good point to make :rolleyes:

One, it's was not a recent shooting. It happened in December 2002, and I don't consider that recent.
Secondly, the bold part.....reminds me of a line I heard years ago, and have never really found to be wrong:
Opinions are like butt-holes,
everyone has one,
most of them stink.
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This reminds me of an exchange about gun control on RN with a lefty in Canada pushing for more gun control (in the US, naturally). He was beat back on every point, but he clung to the mantra "but if it saves one life".

I've concluded that most of liberalism is based on wishful thinking/warm fuzzies and reality be damned.
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I just couldn't leave it to a one subject response, but I did respond:

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Obviously you poked around my FB page and assembled your preconceptions about me and what I think and believe. That's ok, just remember I only asked a few questions and got a lot more than I really wanted in return, but be that as it may.....

I'm not going to bother addressing all of your response, much of it is leftist talking points and petty whining about fellow American citizens exercising their 1st amendment rights (who are apparently the new enemies of the USA as of January 20, 2009 while at the same time we stop calling terrorists what they are - ENEMIES), but I do have a few things to say and some questions for you.

What "civil rights" were taken away by the Bush administration? Please be specific and give me examples.

You say that giving tax breaks (giving people back THEIR money) while creating deficits was wrong for the Bush administration, but Obama is spending more than ALL previous presidents combined in the first 3 months of his term, yet promises 95% of people tax reductions. How do you square that hypocrisy? How can he pay for all this spending of OUR money without raising taxes, or is he lying? How can he give 95% of people tax breaks when very close to 50% don't pay net Federal taxes? Bush spent money that is Constitutional (military) but Obama is spending things on social programs which aren't. Are you familiar with Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution and what specific powers are granted to Congress? There's promoting general welfare, then there's Obama's specifically targeted welfare programs that only help select groups, also known as "special interests" and "lobbies". You're fine with all of that?

Are you outraged at all the tax cheats in the current cabinet? Why are WE THE PEOPLE badgered and thrown in jail if we don't pay our taxes, but the elitists get a pass and get high positions of this country's cabinet for the same offense?

Lastly, there is no healthcare crisis/issue/problem. There is no need for the government to run a nationalized healthcare system. The private sector is working fine. Employer based healthcare exists because employers have a vested interest in their employee's health, so they are getting something back for their business investment if they can afford it. People aren't dying in the streets and we already have broken government run systems. Do you want the government telling you how to live, what to eat, and which doctor you can or cannot go see? Why should my hard-earned money go toward the healthcare costs of someone who doesn't take care of themselves? There is NOTHING about healthcare in the Constitution. It's just another part of life the government thinks it needs to be involved in when clearly there is no language anywhere giving it the right to do so. If you can point to a successful run nationalized healthcare system, I'd love to read about it...good luck. If people don't take care of themselves or consider providing for their own healthcare expenses with their own money, that's their right. For those cases, rare as they are, that people need care that they can't afford, we already have systems in place for them. Just ask the next illegal alien you see in one of our emergency rooms how much they pay for access to OUR healthcare system.

I'm no Republican (never have been), I was a Democrat until last year when I changed my affiliation to Independent as no political party deserves my allegiance - but I am conservative because I believe in small government that stays out of the way of our citizen's life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. I believe in strong national defense and fiscal restraint and responsibility. I believe life must exist before any God-given rights can and otherwise I'm socially moderate. In other words, I believe in the original construction of the Constitution and that our founders were smarter than any run-of-the-mill smooth talking politician that may come along in present times. Read the Constitution followed by the Federalist Papers - most people don't have a clue what makes this country great, but these documents spell it all out. Also, Brilliant Solution by Carol Berkin tells the best account of the Constitutional Converntion of 1787...fascinating.

Know what I think is funny? When people like you lecture others about patriotism, knowing very little about that person in the first place. Hillary said that dissent is patriotic when the Dems were out of power, but NOW like-minded people say any dissent is UN-patriotic and must be silenced, shouted down or should be threatened by our own government to be shut down. That's what I consider funny. Such is the biased application of 1st amendment for the left. At least they're consistent: they interpret and apply many of the amendments according to their worldview instead of how they were meant to be (see Federalist Papers).

That's it for now, but I'd love to discuss the 2nd amendment with you sometime. Come to RightNation.us and poke around. You may learn something. I tried to have a civil political discussion with another FB "friend" a few weeks ago and instead of discussion he chose to end discussion, probably because I caused him to question his beliefs and didn't know how to react other than "defriend" me. I won't blame you if you do the same, when facts are laid out on the table for discussion, many lefties turn and run away as I've come to find out.
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Pretty good, Stick. Let us know what happens.
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YOu know, I'm going through the same thing right now and am worrying if the friendship is worth maintaining. I really don't have time in my life for drama and bull<censored>, and as I get older, I suffer fools less and less lightly.


Danny
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Same here. A buddy of mine who recently let it be known that he voted for S.U.E. This is his 4th tour in Iraq. We grew up in the same small Texas panhandle town. After reading that I figured, you know, sometimes it happens. Old childhood friends just become too different from those carefree days of yesteryear. He knows I'm more conservative. I'm not angry or anything, but it is rather sad. Reflecting on it further, I guess I just don't have that much to say to him that wouldn't result in either him/I/or the both of us upset. Fact of life, there's not much in this world that lasts forever.Let us know what your colleague had to say.
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You might want to ask him how come when anyone does anything wrong in a Republican administration they are criminals and when they do something wrong in a Democratic administration it is either ignored or it was just a mistake.
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