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RightNation.US: Is Justice for Trayvon Martin Possible? - RightNation.US

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I wonder because now that the president has weighed in, can it now even be about justice for Trayvon?

From Politico:

Quote

"My main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. You know, if I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon," Obama said. "All of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves."


Your message is that you noticed that their son kinda looks like you? What kind of craven narcissist are we dealing with here. If we're going to deal with this issue with the seriousness it deserves, let's start by not making it about you.

And can we also refrain from making this about "all of us"?

Quote

"Obviously, this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through," Obama said. "All of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how something like this has happened."


No, we don't. I'm not saying racism is not a problem, but I am saying that this isn't a wider social issue. If it were, Trayvon's death wouldn't be news, it'd be background noise.

They should have just left it at this:

Quote

"Our thoughts and prayers go out to Trayvon Martin's family but obviously, we're not going to wade into a local law-enforcement matter."


So, why didn't they? Because Obama has to insert himself into everything. This is just too delicious for him not to get into it. He doesn't necessarily have to comment on any of the details, just make a lame personal connection and speak in broad platitudes that vaguely indict the society he's trying to save from itself. He couldn't possibly resist commenting like that even if it's in response to a question at the end of a nomination announcement.

I'm disgusted by the situation because I know what it means to the race baiting industry. This Zimmerman fellow is not white by most standards unless shooting black kids is considered "acting white". The cops appear to have completely misunderstood the "Stand Your Ground" law, and the local authorities obviously thought nothing was amiss when a guy calls 911 several dozen times a month.

But none of that matters. Nor does it matter that none but the most unforgivable racists among us have anything less than total sympathy for the Martin family. The race baiting industry will exploit this tragedy for all it's worth.

Because they will surely do this, justice for Trayvon Martin will become a secondary issue. And that's not really justice. A society of laws must see those laws enforced without the taint of personal or ideological gain. If someone makes a dime off this kid's death, they belong in jail with Zimmerman once he gets there.

And that can't be too soon.

My Mind is Clean
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27 Comments On This Entry

It's cuz the kid was wearing a a hooded sweatshirt in the rain. Blacks and latinos shouldn't let their kids wear hoodies. These words of wisdom from Jerry Rivers.
Gee, Geraldo I thought it was the baggy, beltless pants and smelly buttcracks that got them killed. I mean, c'mon, everybody knows crack kills! :angry:
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Quote

"My main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. You know, if I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon," Obama said. "All of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves."


Obama seems to be implying that if Trayvon didn't look like Obama then the case wouldn't be take with the seriousness it deserves. He's dogwhistling to his people, "It's cool, he's one of us, I have it."

Yes, the Sanford FL PD are a bunch of Eff-ups but this doesn't need to be a federal case. I used to live in that area, Seminole County. The County SO is reasonably competent but the Sanford PD has a reputation for being a bunch of yokels that would have to be promoted several rungs to even be at the Barney Fife level.

In Florida, now that Sanford PD has effed it up, the agency that SHOULD be sorting it all out is the FDLE - Florida Dep't of Law Enforcement.

Unlike other states that just have a generalized "State Police", Florida divides it into two agencies - The FHP (Highway patrol aka "State Troopers"), and the FDLE who are mostly plainclothes investigators. Think of the FDLE as like a mini-FBI and mini-DEA combined but at the state level. They're good. Darned good. There's nothing the feds can do that the FDLE can't do just as well if not better.

http://www.fdle.stat...ntent/home.aspx
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Quote

If someone makes a dime off this kid's death, they belong in jail with Zimmerman once he gets there.


I'll take a guess..

Obama's comments will no doubt generate some donations.
Al Sharpton comes expensive or doesn't come at all.
Treyvon's parents (or likely some race pimp on their behalf) will be suing the community organization, the Sanford police, the city of Sanford, whoever manufactured the gun Zimmerman used, Zimmerman himself of course, whoever in the community appointed or agreed to Zimmerman being community watch, any others?

As far as Treyvon's parents making money goes the only one I think should be allowed is some sort of wrongful death suit against Zimmerman himself and nobody/nothing else.


My thoughts..

In the Atlanta area people are starting to "occupy" the city because of this nonsense. As if showing up dressed in hoodies and holding skittles is going to do ANYTHING but compound rush hour Friday. Sorry, I simply don't care about Treyvon ..no wait, I'm not sorry. Did we not just go through an entire news cycle based on selective outrage, the Rush thing? How many people died that same night to violence? What makes Treyvon so special, if I may ask. The fact that this entire parade of interest is operating under the guise of giving a damn about this kids death is a freaking insult to his memory. All this will serve is to get the mindless sheep amped up and ready to agree to some liberal gun control laws.

Oh, one other thing. I heard some of the chanting from these protest groups and I wonder if these so called civil rights leaders have made the same connection I have. They're saying things like "if the police don't arrest him we'll go do it ourselves". Basically advocating for the same "justice" that Blacks got back in the day when citizens dressed in white sheets took the law into their own hands. Hows that for progress?
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needmoreammo, on 23 March 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Quote

If someone makes a dime off this kid's death, they belong in jail with Zimmerman once he gets there.
I'll take a guess..Obama's comments will no doubt generate some donations.Al Sharpton comes expensive or doesn't come at all.Treyvon's parents (or likely some race pimp on their behalf) will be suing the community organization, the Sanford police, the city of Sanford, whoever manufactured the gun Zimmerman used, Zimmerman himself of course, whoever in the community appointed or agreed to Zimmerman being community watch, any others?As far as Treyvon's parents making money goes the only one I think should be allowed is some sort of wrongful death suit against Zimmerman himself and nobody/nothing else.My thoughts..In the Atlanta area people are starting to "occupy" the city because of this nonsense. As if showing up dressed in hoodies and holding skittles is going to do ANYTHING but compound rush hour Friday. Sorry, I simply don't care about Treyvon ..no wait, I'm not sorry. Did we not just go through an entire news cycle based on selective outrage, the Rush thing? How many people died that same night to violence? What makes Treyvon so special, if I may ask. The fact that this entire parade of interest is operating under the guise of giving a damn about this kids death is a freaking insult to his memory. All this will serve is to get the mindless sheep amped up and ready to agree to some liberal gun control laws.Oh, one other thing. I heard some of the chanting from these protest groups and I wonder if these so called civil rights leaders have made the same connection I have. They're saying things like "if the police don't arrest him we'll go do it ourselves". Basically advocating for the same "justice" that Blacks got back in the day when citizens dressed in white sheets took the law into their own hands. Hows that for progress?

What makes this different from the mayhem committed daily is the response by the police. Not only was the shooter not arrested, but the police expected the family and the community to accept that it was 'self defense' - case closed. If I was that kids mother, I would have raised holy hell at such a response. Nothing is local anymore. The police should know that by now.
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"My main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin...if I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon. I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves and we’re going to get to the bottom of what happened."
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needmoreammo, on 23 March 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Quote

If someone makes a dime off this kid's death, they belong in jail with Zimmerman once he gets there.
I'll take a guess..Obama's comments will no doubt generate some donations.Al Sharpton comes expensive or doesn't come at all.Treyvon's parents (or likely some race pimp on their behalf) will be suing the community organization, the Sanford police, the city of Sanford, whoever manufactured the gun Zimmerman used, Zimmerman himself of course, whoever in the community appointed or agreed to Zimmerman being community watch, any others?


I get the impression that he was self-appointed as the "Neighborhood watch" with no formal organization behind him. It's not hard to do and most floridians would be pretty laid back about it.

Heck, if some yahoo wants to walk around MY neighborhood calling himself the Neighborhood Watch, then what do I care as long as he's not bothering ME ? Most of my neighbors would probably say the same.
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leftcoast, right winger, on 23 March 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

It's cuz the kid was wearing a a hooded sweatshirt in the rain. Blacks and latinos shouldn't let their kids wear hoodies. These words of wisdom from Jerry Rivers. Gee, Geraldo I thought it was the baggy, beltless pants and smelly buttcracks that got them killed. I mean, c'mon, everybody knows crack kills! :angry:

I guess Bill Belichick should keep looking over his shoulder.
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Ladybird, on 23 March 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

needmoreammo, on 23 March 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Quote

If someone makes a dime off this kid's death, they belong in jail with Zimmerman once he gets there.
I'll take a guess..Obama's comments will no doubt generate some donations.Al Sharpton comes expensive or doesn't come at all.Treyvon's parents (or likely some race pimp on their behalf) will be suing the community organization, the Sanford police, the city of Sanford, whoever manufactured the gun Zimmerman used, Zimmerman himself of course, whoever in the community appointed or agreed to Zimmerman being community watch, any others?As far as Treyvon's parents making money goes the only one I think should be allowed is some sort of wrongful death suit against Zimmerman himself and nobody/nothing else.My thoughts..In the Atlanta area people are starting to "occupy" the city because of this nonsense. As if showing up dressed in hoodies and holding skittles is going to do ANYTHING but compound rush hour Friday. Sorry, I simply don't care about Treyvon ..no wait, I'm not sorry. Did we not just go through an entire news cycle based on selective outrage, the Rush thing? How many people died that same night to violence? What makes Treyvon so special, if I may ask. The fact that this entire parade of interest is operating under the guise of giving a damn about this kids death is a freaking insult to his memory. All this will serve is to get the mindless sheep amped up and ready to agree to some liberal gun control laws.Oh, one other thing. I heard some of the chanting from these protest groups and I wonder if these so called civil rights leaders have made the same connection I have. They're saying things like "if the police don't arrest him we'll go do it ourselves". Basically advocating for the same "justice" that Blacks got back in the day when citizens dressed in white sheets took the law into their own hands. Hows that for progress?
What makes this different from the mayhem committed daily is the response by the police. Not only was the shooter not arrested, but the police expected the family and the community to accept that it was 'self defense' - case closed. If I was that kids mother, I would have raised holy hell at such a response. Nothing is local anymore. The police should know that by now.

I think local is local as long as someone in the media doesn't have a use for it. But I agree with the rest. Since the shooter isn't behind bars and it's not yet clear what happened, I see the reason for the outrage of parents. But given the fact that they STILL haven't arrested the guy, that should tell us something. The state police and the FBI are several days into this and still arrest. I would imagine that they're making sure that if he does get arrested, some lawyer won't get him off on appeal is convicted because the arrest wasn't lawful in the first place.
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Mr. Naron, on 23 March 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

Ladybird, on 23 March 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

needmoreammo, on 23 March 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Quote

If someone makes a dime off this kid's death, they belong in jail with Zimmerman once he gets there.
I'll take a guess..Obama's comments will no doubt generate some donations.Al Sharpton comes expensive or doesn't come at all.Treyvon's parents (or likely some race pimp on their behalf) will be suing the community organization, the Sanford police, the city of Sanford, whoever manufactured the gun Zimmerman used, Zimmerman himself of course, whoever in the community appointed or agreed to Zimmerman being community watch, any others?As far as Treyvon's parents making money goes the only one I think should be allowed is some sort of wrongful death suit against Zimmerman himself and nobody/nothing else.My thoughts..In the Atlanta area people are starting to "occupy" the city because of this nonsense. As if showing up dressed in hoodies and holding skittles is going to do ANYTHING but compound rush hour Friday. Sorry, I simply don't care about Treyvon ..no wait, I'm not sorry. Did we not just go through an entire news cycle based on selective outrage, the Rush thing? How many people died that same night to violence? What makes Treyvon so special, if I may ask. The fact that this entire parade of interest is operating under the guise of giving a damn about this kids death is a freaking insult to his memory. All this will serve is to get the mindless sheep amped up and ready to agree to some liberal gun control laws.Oh, one other thing. I heard some of the chanting from these protest groups and I wonder if these so called civil rights leaders have made the same connection I have. They're saying things like "if the police don't arrest him we'll go do it ourselves". Basically advocating for the same "justice" that Blacks got back in the day when citizens dressed in white sheets took the law into their own hands. Hows that for progress?
What makes this different from the mayhem committed daily is the response by the police. Not only was the shooter not arrested, but the police expected the family and the community to accept that it was 'self defense' - case closed. If I was that kids mother, I would have raised holy hell at such a response. Nothing is local anymore. The police should know that by now.
I think local is local as long as someone in the media doesn't have a use for it. But I agree with the rest. Since the shooter isn't behind bars and it's not yet clear what happened, I see the reason for the outrage of parents. But given the fact that they STILL haven't arrested the guy, that should tell us something. The state police and the FBI are several days into this and still arrest. I would imagine that they're making sure that if he does get arrested, some lawyer won't get him off on appeal is convicted because the arrest wasn't lawful in the first place.



You guys are making good points but I'm still not on board. I simply just cant care. Perhaps its because I'm looking at the situation with color tinted glasses. At this point in my life when I hear the faintest hint of race baiting I turn deaf to even these rare legitimate issues. Its 'boy who cried wolf' syndrome I guess. Maybe I'm being callous, I can own up to that, but when I hear Al Sharpton's preacher act and Obama's "cause he looks like me" speech.. well I just don't freaking care anymore.
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needmoreammo, on 23 March 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

You guys are making good points but I'm still not on board. I simply just cant care. Perhaps its because I'm looking at the situation with color tinted glasses. At this point in my life when I hear the faintest hint of race baiting I turn deaf to even these rare legitimate issues. Its 'boy who cried wolf' syndrome I guess. Maybe I'm being callous, I can own up to that, but when I hear Al Sharpton's preacher act and Obama's "cause he looks like me" speech.. well I just don't freaking care anymore.


His parents should have given Al Sharpton the stiff arm. I'm with you on that.
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Obama forgets he's supposed to be the President of ALL Americans. Thus, he shouldn't be taking sides in a case that hasn't been settled yet. One wonders if this case would have drawn as much political attention if the suspect had been a black man named Shabbaz. Actually, the answer is simple: as was pointed out in another RN post, several other black youths were gunned down recently by black suspects, and no one higher than the local level said a blessed thing.

As a private citizen looking at the basic facts, I'm astonished that Zimmerman wasn't arrested. Neighborhood Watch is all about observing and reporting. Zimmerman did so, but then allegedly put himself in potential danger when he decided it was his job to confront, chase, and, tragically, execute, too. Zimmerman is non-black and was carrying a concealed firearm legally. You can almost hear the Left salivating. For them it's a two-fer. Actually, a three-fer: they are blaming the cops, too.

Meanwhile, I wonder how many other black youths will be gunned down this month over drugs, gang affiliations, or just because they innocently wore a ballcap or made a gesture that led some mouth-breather to think they belonged to a different gang?

When will Jesse and Al and Calypso Louie start rallies to break up gangs? When will they appeal to whites, Hispanics, and Asians to turn away from gangs? When will they support reformed ex-gang members who preach against the whole "lifestyle"? When will gangsta rappers turn their backs on all this evil? Nope, no money in it for them. No one to sue. No one to boycott. No one will buy tickets to their shows. No one will be listening to them on their iPhones.
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JimNEPA, on 24 March 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

Obama forgets he's supposed to be the President of ALL Americans. Thus, he shouldn't be taking sides in a case that hasn't been settled yet. One wonders if this case would have drawn as much political attention if the suspect had been a black man named Shabbaz. Actually, the answer is simple: as was pointed out in another RN post, several other black youths were gunned down recently by black suspects, and no one higher than the local level said a blessed thing.As a private citizen looking at the basic facts, I'm astonished that Zimmerman wasn't arrested. Neighborhood Watch is all about observing and reporting. Zimmerman did so, but then allegedly put himself in potential danger when he decided it was his job to confront, chase, and, tragically, execute, too. Zimmerman is non-black and was carrying a concealed firearm legally. You can almost hear the Left salivating. For them it's a two-fer. Actually, a three-fer: they are blaming the cops, too. Meanwhile, I wonder how many other black youths will be gunned down this month over drugs, gang affiliations, or just because they innocently wore a ballcap or made a gesture that led some mouth-breather to think they belonged to a different gang?When will Jesse and Al and Calypso Louie start rallies to break up gangs? When will they appeal to whites, Hispanics, and Asians to turn away from gangs? When will they support reformed ex-gang members who preach against the whole "lifestyle"? When will gangsta rappers turn their backs on all this evil? Nope, no money in it for them. No one to sue. No one to boycott. No one will buy tickets to their shows. No one will be listening to them on their iPhones.

This is another reason I want certain drugs legalized. Right now, the race baiting industry gets away with standing in solidarity with gang bangers because they have a certain Robin Hood appeal to the ignorant and easily manipulated masses. Without pot in there, the only gangsters left will be the ones pushing crack and meth. Then, if they want to stay in business, they'll have to turn on the real problems in the neighborhoods.
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Justice?

Since when was it determined that a crime was committed? The line between self defense and manslaughter is fine. The law allows a certain leeway to someone as it doesnt require that a person wait until someone is an actual threat before allowing them to defend themself. The law has always held that a person just has to think they are in danger.

So far, using the term justice implies there was a crime and nothing indicates that other than the activists.
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Cold Warrior, on 24 March 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Justice?Since when was it determined that a crime was committed? The line between self defense and manslaughter is fine. The law allows a certain leeway to someone as it doesnt require that a person wait until someone is an actual threat before allowing them to defend themself. The law has always held that a person just has to think they are in danger. So far, using the term justice implies there was a crime and nothing indicates that other than the activists.



I'm less sure about Zimmerman's guilt now. But be did instigate the conflict. So he's responsible for Martin's death, but perhaps it's a civil matter now.
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I was not aware that he chased the guy so my mind changes. You cant chase the guy and claim self defense. I was not aware of that earlier.
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I've seen a lot of outrage expressed that this should be a story when commonplace gang killings are barely even noticed these days, thereby representing the hypocrisy of the left, of course.

Except I'm not sure the police turn a blind eye to gang killings in the same way or for the same reasons that they seem to have done so in this case. They knew he was following the boy despite the dispatcher's instruction not to pursue him and yet seem to have taken his story at face value.

Gang killings are a tragic and senseless fact of life. All over the world gangs engage in turf wars, it's just that the mortality rate tends to be higher where guns are readily available (drive-by knifings not really being a big problem). How to tackle that issue is something which has perplexed people for decades, with no magic bullet yet found (excuse the pun).

However, being followed and shot for walking while black is a different issue. Especially when viewed in conjunction with the police force's record and poor handling of the investigation. That is why the cries about black on black gang killings isn't actually relevant to this topic. But if it makes people feel better than other people.....
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*aren't relevant, not isn't.
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What about justice for Zimmermann? If he's not convicted by a jury of his peers he will have to leave Florida for sure and find a new identity. Even then he will always be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life for making an obviously tragic choice. I sincerely doubt if the man would get a fair trial even if his attorney's were able to facilitate a change of venue because of the overwhelming MSM coverage. Of which most has been lies, speculation and inflammatory rhetoric with very few facts.
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Adam Smithee, on 23 March 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

needmoreammo, on 23 March 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Quote

If someone makes a dime off this kid's death, they belong in jail with Zimmerman once he gets there.
I'll take a guess..Obama's comments will no doubt generate some donations.Al Sharpton comes expensive or doesn't come at all.Treyvon's parents (or likely some race pimp on their behalf) will be suing the community organization, the Sanford police, the city of Sanford, whoever manufactured the gun Zimmerman used, Zimmerman himself of course, whoever in the community appointed or agreed to Zimmerman being community watch, any others?
I get the impression that he was self-appointed as the "Neighborhood watch" with no formal organization behind him. It's not hard to do and most floridians would be pretty laid back about it.Heck, if some yahoo wants to walk around MY neighborhood calling himself the Neighborhood Watch, then what do I care as long as he's not bothering ME ? Most of my neighbors would probably say the same.


I take it it's fair to assume he would be bothering you if he followed, shot and killed your unarmed son as he walked back to his house?

What I don't get is the "self-defence" argument. Trayvon told his girlfriend he was being followed and he tried to get away. Zimmerman pursued him despite having no legal authority and confronted him. If Trayvon did push or hit him first, why is that not considered self-defence as well? If a strange man followed and confronted me for no reason and I thought punching him would get me away from him, I would do it to defend myself. I also don't understand how the boy could be a threat if he was actively trying to get away from Zimmerman.

People seem so keen to find exonerating circumstances for Zimmerman they seem to forget he caused the altercation against police advice and that it's not only white (or Hispanic, though not sure when people of Spanish descent ceased to be white) people who are entitled to defend themselves if they feel threatened. Also, hitting someone to defend yourself is one thing. Even shooting to injure. Shooting to kill is just stupid, most especially when you don't even know someone is a threat and you're given to paranoia to the point you feel the need to call the police 46 times in two months with your calls being 2.5 times more frequent than actual crime in the neighbourhood.
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Colt1911fan, on 25 March 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

What about justice for Zimmermann? If he's not convicted by a jury of his peers he will have to leave Florida for sure and find a new identity. Even then he will always be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life for making an obviously tragic choice. I sincerely doubt if the man would get a fair trial even if his attorney's were able to facilitate a change of venue because of the overwhelming MSM coverage. Of which most has been lies, speculation and inflammatory rhetoric with very few facts.


Obviously there are lies, speculation and inflammatory rhetoric with very few facts or we wouldn't be having this discussion. The question is, from which side is that coming from? The facts that are known don't look good for Zimmerman and if he is ever charged but found not guilty, hopefully he'll have learned to not go looking for trouble and to not kill someone because he thinks they look suspicious. And others will learn from it too (though I don't hold out much hope of that).
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