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I'm having serious trouble jumping on the condemnation bandwagon regarding this Tiller thing. While it was obviously illegal and likely a capital offense, I don't see why I should go out of my way to condemn the shooting. And while I completely understand why pro-life groups and activists have come out strong against it--they have political agendas that require a deft handling of public relations--I don't see why I or any other individual unconnected with one of these organizations should play the PR game.
Look, no one save the most dedicated fascist or, I suppose, the most zealous pacifist would ever condemn a German citizen for killing the commander of a Nazi death camp. Killing Jews was official policy and completely legal in Germany at one point, so the illegality of the action is no grounds for moral condemnation. Nor does it make sense to point out the hypocrisy of taking a life in the name of a pro-life cause. It's actually pretty logical in the case of someone like Tiller. Does this mean the shooter was a noble individual doing God's work? Of course not. Again, the pro-life political agenda heavily depends on good PR, and this shooting is obviously bad PR. Killing a death camp commander would have been more than bad PR in the context of Nazi Germany, it would be certain suicide.
The sad, sick and shocking thing about this is we are all acting like good little National Socialists, diving head first into group think and trying to out-do each other in our condemnation. Tiller lived by violent killing and died of a violent killing. His killer will likely die horribly as well. It's a wash. Except for the fact that thousands of humans are likely to survive now who would have been murdered otherwise.
Moreover, liberals using this incident to make hay are so full of crap their eyes are brown. I've lost count of how many of my liberal friends who show no sympathy when I explain to them how Joseph McCarthy died. He was a man who killed no one, but because he supposedly ruined the lives of a few communist spies and fellow travelers, it's poetic justice that he died a miserable alcoholic, a state brought on by a deliberate and concerted effort to ruin his life. How many on the left celebrated upon hearing of the deaths of Whittaker Chambers, Richard Nixon or even Ronald Reagan. A leftist nut even jumped the fence and danced on The Gipper's grave at the Reagan Library. Where was the condemnation of these leftists? If you're thinking this is different, remember that Chambers, Nixon and Reagan never killed anyone much less 60,000 innocent children.
Finally, if a guy makes a million dollars trading credit default swaps, he's evil incarnate and must be hounded to an early grave. A guy makes a million dollars a year performing late term abortions and he becomes a left-wing martyr. Anyone else think that's nuts.
Everyone needs to stop and take a deep breath. Quit referring to this shooting as "the saddest" this or "the most shocking" that. No one is shocked when a gang banger gets killed or when a prostitute gets the clap. Actions have consequences. The shooter was wrong, but let's not go overboard. Tiller deserved to die by the hand of God just like myself and everyone else does.
It just so happens that you and I don't kill babies, so we're less likely to get shot.
My Mind is Clean
Look, no one save the most dedicated fascist or, I suppose, the most zealous pacifist would ever condemn a German citizen for killing the commander of a Nazi death camp. Killing Jews was official policy and completely legal in Germany at one point, so the illegality of the action is no grounds for moral condemnation. Nor does it make sense to point out the hypocrisy of taking a life in the name of a pro-life cause. It's actually pretty logical in the case of someone like Tiller. Does this mean the shooter was a noble individual doing God's work? Of course not. Again, the pro-life political agenda heavily depends on good PR, and this shooting is obviously bad PR. Killing a death camp commander would have been more than bad PR in the context of Nazi Germany, it would be certain suicide.
The sad, sick and shocking thing about this is we are all acting like good little National Socialists, diving head first into group think and trying to out-do each other in our condemnation. Tiller lived by violent killing and died of a violent killing. His killer will likely die horribly as well. It's a wash. Except for the fact that thousands of humans are likely to survive now who would have been murdered otherwise.
Moreover, liberals using this incident to make hay are so full of crap their eyes are brown. I've lost count of how many of my liberal friends who show no sympathy when I explain to them how Joseph McCarthy died. He was a man who killed no one, but because he supposedly ruined the lives of a few communist spies and fellow travelers, it's poetic justice that he died a miserable alcoholic, a state brought on by a deliberate and concerted effort to ruin his life. How many on the left celebrated upon hearing of the deaths of Whittaker Chambers, Richard Nixon or even Ronald Reagan. A leftist nut even jumped the fence and danced on The Gipper's grave at the Reagan Library. Where was the condemnation of these leftists? If you're thinking this is different, remember that Chambers, Nixon and Reagan never killed anyone much less 60,000 innocent children.
Finally, if a guy makes a million dollars trading credit default swaps, he's evil incarnate and must be hounded to an early grave. A guy makes a million dollars a year performing late term abortions and he becomes a left-wing martyr. Anyone else think that's nuts.
Everyone needs to stop and take a deep breath. Quit referring to this shooting as "the saddest" this or "the most shocking" that. No one is shocked when a gang banger gets killed or when a prostitute gets the clap. Actions have consequences. The shooter was wrong, but let's not go overboard. Tiller deserved to die by the hand of God just like myself and everyone else does.
It just so happens that you and I don't kill babies, so we're less likely to get shot.
My Mind is Clean
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Voyage of the Dawn Treader: Spectacular. Some visuals that are so beautiful they almost hurt to look at.
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The A-Team: I wasn't a believer until stuff blew up. Then I was, like, "yeah!"Waiting for Superman: I haven't been this disappointed since I found out that To Kill a Mockingbird wasn't a documentary.
The Book of Eli: Had the potential for one of the greatest endings in movie history but pissed it away with one scene.
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Date Night: Not your average RomCom. I think this is the movie Alfred Hitchcock was trying to make when he slapped North by Northwest together.
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Lincoln Crack for historians.
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Fat Head If you want to regain some intelligence after watching Supersize Me, watch this.
The Hobbit Not a movie. An achievement.
Red Dawn Uh, those North Koreans look pretty well fed. Almost as well fed as the Chinese. Good explosions.
Expendables 2 Someone had the genius idea to film the Random Facts About Chuck Norris. And kudos to Chuck because the film had almost no cursing.
Lincoln Brilliant. Funny. Sad. Daniel Day Lewis should get an Oscar by Constitutional amendment.
2016: Obama's America Great for high and low info voters. Not much new for the high info voter, but some good theoretical discussion. Dinesh is still a punk for agreeing to an interview, then ducking my harder questions.
The Dark Knight Rises: Best treatment of the hero theme ever. Great re-imagining of the Russian Revolution, also.
The Amazing Spiderman: Better than the original. Here's why: Emma Stone way better than Kirsten Dunce. The kid who plays Spidey is way better than Toby McGuire. Closer to the comic from what I understand. No silly Power Rangers mask on villain. I like how they keep him in high school. Martin Sheen gets shot.
Three Stooges: Turning Moe loose on the cast of Jersey Shore? Masterful.
The Avengers: The only word for how awesome this movie is: Dude.
Winter's Bone: Jennifer Lawrence deserves an Oscar for just reading this script. Let's just say don't stray too far out of Branson if you're ever up in the Ozarks.
The Hunger Games: The Running Man for pre-teen girls. But with more stabbing.
Transformers: Dark Side of the Moon: A jackhammer of an action movie. Wildly xceeded my low expectations.
Super 8: Thank you Misters Spielberg and Abrams. The former may be a pinko commie lib, but he knows what he's doing. The latter may be a jerk around artist when he's got years to tell a story. But give him just a couple of hours, and he's dead on. Great, great old school 80s era Spielberg flick.
True Grit: I didn't want to like it out of respect for The Duke, but dang it if those Cohen brothers aren't masterful.
X-Men First Class: Yet another home run from Marvel. It's funny, the first time I saw Magneto's helmet, I thought "That would look great on Kevin Bacon."
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Battle: LASo, that's what happened on the ground on Independence Day. Seriously, very good movie.
Tangled: A Burkean mix of aesthetics and respect for tradition. In other words, it was pretty cool.
Voyage of the Dawn Treader: Spectacular. Some visuals that are so beautiful they almost hurt to look at.
Tron: Legacy: I don't know why they had to mess with perfection.
The A-Team: I wasn't a believer until stuff blew up. Then I was, like, "yeah!"Waiting for Superman: I haven't been this disappointed since I found out that To Kill a Mockingbird wasn't a documentary.
The Book of Eli: Had the potential for one of the greatest endings in movie history but pissed it away with one scene.
She's Out of My League: Is there a RomCom factory somewhere and can we blow it up in the A-Team sequal?
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Clash of the Titans: Yelling "Release the Kraken!" when you go into the men's room is still funny. But it has been funny since the 80's, so...
Date Night: Not your average RomCom. I think this is the movie Alfred Hitchcock was trying to make when he slapped North by Northwest together.
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Well said, Chris.
I wish you would have posted this on the Tiller thread in the main forum. You bring up astute points, no one made in there.
Braveheart, on Jun 1 2009, 06:06 PM, said:
Well said, Chris.
I wish you would have posted this on the Tiller thread in the main forum. You bring up astute points, no one made in there.
I have so little time to write in my blog and defend myself in that thread, so I chose priority number one. Next week I'll have way more time--which I'll use to go to Vegas.
Quote
Not true. Someone else will just continue to do where he left off. A women seeking an abortion will still do so, but now at the hands of another.
Quote
It just so happens that you and I don't kill babies, so we're less likely to get shot.
Very good closing line.
DodgerKing, on Jun 1 2009, 07:10 PM, said:
He was one of only three in the country who did those kinds of "procedures". I'm sure a few thousand or so will slip through the clutches of the other ones due to mere inconvenience.
The only thing that makes Roeder's actions a crime is that Tillman's actions weren't a crime, otherwise it would be "justifiable homicide". While that's a very important consideration, in my book it just demonstrates once again that the law isn't always right. If I were on the Roeder jury, I already know what my vote would be.
I see a different fallout from this than others do. Some are worried about a backlash against "Right-wing extremists". So far I don't see it going that way, at least not in my limited reading of USA today while I'm sitting here on Vacation. But even if so, I think the long-lasting fallout will be just the opposite. There are too many leftists and immoralists out there who twist the law to serve their own agenda and then hide behind a veil of legality. This should serve as a reminder that you can only push people so far with legalism, there comes a point where some will ignore the legalities and do what they feel needs to be done. So if the Tillman case causes a few leftists and immoralists to lay awake at night considering that possibility and wondering if theres a Roeder out there with them in the crosshairs, then, well, I'm okay with them losing sleep over it.
Dogs that chase cars are likely to get run over . . .
JimDoe, on Jun 3 2009, 11:50 AM, said:
Dogs that chase cars are likely to get run over . . .
Glad I could clear the fog. I honestly thought people were going to flame me for this.