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#41 User is offline   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 08:20 AM

View PostTaggart Transcontinental, on 19 October 2019 - 09:30 AM, said:

The blind genuflecting before the sighted once again. When will you STOP giving them a pass for this obviously illegal activities. Paul Manafort was cited because he didn't register as a lobbyist for a foreign government. Why wasn't Biden? He is a son of a father and was lobbying on behalf of this company. No Jail, NOTHING. You are blind because you gouged out your own damn eyes, and then wonder why your "race" gets the short end of the stick. LOOK AROUND It's not Republicans oppressing blacks its your own damn party.

:yeahthat: :clap:
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#42 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 08:46 AM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 20 October 2019 - 08:18 AM, said:

Like many, I voted AGAINST Hillary rather "for" Trump per se. And I've been pleasantly surprised. I know that as soon as I get enthusiastic about voting for him, he's going to disappoint. I seem to be cursed that way. LOL.

So you checked the box next to Trump’s name in the voting booth but didn’t vote “for” him. Okay, some fine parsing of words but if that’s what you meant fine.

I voted FOR Trump, not “against” Hillary, and it’s the one vote I’m the happiest about ever.
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#43 User is online   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 10:05 AM

View Postzurg, on 20 October 2019 - 08:46 AM, said:

So you checked the box next to Trump’s name in the voting booth but didn’t vote “for” him. Okay, some fine parsing of words but if that’s what you meant fine.

I voted FOR Trump, not “against” Hillary, and it’s the one vote I’m the happiest about ever.


If you recall, the way I phrased it at time was that I voted for a person called "Donald J. NotHillary". At least that was the name as I saw it on the ballot, you can blame my poor aging eyesight. Or it might've been "John Q. NotHillary", I do need to get new glasses one of these days.

Look, I'm just not going to do a 'Hannity' and claim after the fact that I liked Trump all along and that I 'knew' he was going to win. At the time I was resigned to the fact that one of two people was going to win so I voted for the lesser of two evils so as to be against the greater evil. That's really how I saw it at the time.

I'm glad that I was wrong and that Trump turned out much better than I expected. And I think there's a fairly good chance that I'll be wrong about something or someone at some point in the future too. :)
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#44 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 04:15 PM

View Postzurg, on 20 October 2019 - 08:46 AM, said:

So you checked the box next to Trump’s name in the voting booth but didn’t vote “for” him. Okay, some fine parsing of words but if that’s what you meant fine.

I voted FOR Trump, not “against” Hillary, and it’s the one vote I’m the happiest about ever.


I'm just like Smithee in that respect; It's not "parsing of words", it's the facts of the matter: I didn't vote "for" Donald Trump; I voted against Hillary Clinton. Not the same thing at all.

However, since Trump has far exceeded my expectations, in 2020 I'll be enthusiastically voting for Trump. Big difference.

B)
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#45 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 05:46 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 20 October 2019 - 04:15 PM, said:

I'm just like Smithee in that respect; It's not "parsing of words", it's the facts of the matter: I didn't vote "for" Donald Trump; I voted against Hillary Clinton. Not the same thing at all.

However, since Trump has far exceeded my expectations, in 2020 I'll be enthusiastically voting for Trump. Big difference.

B)

Because in the English language you cast a vote “for”, I would phrase your and Smithee’s voting as “voted for Trump unenthusiastically”. But I understand your meaning, I just wouldn’t state it like that. Because of how I understand usage of the verb “to vote”.

This post has been edited by zurg: 20 October 2019 - 05:48 PM

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#46 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 07:35 PM

View Postzurg, on 20 October 2019 - 05:46 PM, said:

Because in the English language you cast a vote “for”, I would phrase your and Smithee’s voting as “voted for Trump unenthusiastically”. But I understand your meaning, I just wouldn’t state it like that. Because of how I understand usage of the verb “to vote”.


Wow Zurg, I can't deny my surprise you're using one of a Certain_Poster's most famous fallacies. He also insists there's no such thing as voting "against", and just like you, he's incorrect.

It's one thing to be faced with a choice between two candidates who are merely "bad" choices. In that case it's true you can either vote "for" one or the other, or vote "for" neither.

But it's another thing entirely when you're faced with a choice between one you merely consider a "bad" choice, and one who is SO awful she would be the worst thing that could possibly happen; somebody who will almost certainly destroy the country if elected. In such a case you have no alternative as a true patriot: Your vote isn't really "for" the "bad" candidate. It's doing everything within your power as a voter and patriotic American to prevent the catastrophe represented by the other candidate. To insist that "isn't" voting against the second candidate is nonsense. Purely arbitrary semantics.

B)

This post has been edited by MontyPython: 20 October 2019 - 08:09 PM

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#47 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 12:08 AM

View PostMontyPython, on 20 October 2019 - 07:35 PM, said:

Wow Zurg, I can't deny my surprise you're using one of a Certain_Poster's most famous fallacies. He also insists there's no such thing as voting "against", and just like you, he's incorrect.

It's one thing to be faced with a choice between two candidates who are merely "bad" choices. In that case it's true you can either vote "for" one or the other, or vote "for" neither.

But it's another thing entirely when you're faced with a choice between one you merely consider a "bad" choice, and one who is SO awful she would be the worst thing that could possibly happen; somebody who will almost certainly destroy the country if elected. In such a case you have no alternative as a true patriot: Your vote isn't really "for" the "bad" candidate. It's doing everything within your power as a voter and patriotic American to prevent the catastrophe represented by the other candidate. To insist that "isn't" voting against the second candidate is nonsense. Purely arbitrary semantics.

B)

Could you read my statement again. I said I understand what you mean, I just wouldn’t state it like that. I’m ONLY talking about the correct use of language, not the intended meaning, unlike the other_one.

I know why you voted FOR Trump. It was an unenthusiastic vote for Trump, cast against Hillary. I fully understand your meaning. I’m stuck on phrasing, that’s all. Not that big a deal in my book.

I only made the original comment to Smithee because I was bored. Not much going on RN these days.

This post has been edited by zurg: 21 October 2019 - 12:10 AM

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#48 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 12:10 AM

View Postzurg, on 21 October 2019 - 12:08 AM, said:

Could you read my statement again. I said I understand what you mean, I just wouldn’t state it like that. I’m ONLY talking about the correct use of language, not the intended meaning, unlike the other_one.

I know why you voted FOR Trump. It was an unenthusiastic vote cast against Hillary. I fully understand your meaning. I’m stuck on phrasing, that’s all.


Yes, that's what I said: Purely arbitrary semantics. The fact remains that "voting against" is a very simple, common, and widespread action.

B)
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#49 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 12:11 AM

View PostMontyPython, on 21 October 2019 - 12:10 AM, said:

Yes, that's what I said: Purely arbitrary semantics. The fact remains that "voting against" is a very simple, common, and widespread action.

B)

And the fact simply remains that I have a different take on those semantics. You can have the last word.
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#50 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 12:28 AM

View Postzurg, on 21 October 2019 - 12:11 AM, said:

And the fact simply remains that I have a different take on those semantics. You can have the last word.


Look, suppose there are three candidates:

Candidate A is the one you actually like, the one you'd like to vote for. However, you know perfectly well Candidate A has no chance whatsoever of winning. Period.

Candidate B is somebody you don't like at all, and wouldn't vote for under any normal circumstances. However, you know perfectly well Candidate B is the only one who has a chance of beating Candidate C.

Candidate C is worst possible candidate hell could conjure up. She's evil, dishonest, hypocritical, and every other monstrous thing you can list. Candidate C will destroy the country for generations to come, and will certainly win unless enough people swallow their distaste and vote for Candidate B. Keep in mind that Candidate A, the only one you could vote for, cannot possibly win no matter what.

Presuming that you're a decent, honest, patriotic American and therefore can NOT vote for Candidate C under any circumstances, you are faced with three choices:

1 - Vote for nobody, which is exactly the same as a vote for Candidate C.

2 - Vote for Candidate A, which is also exactly the same as a vote for Candidate C (because Candidate A cannot possibly win.)

3 - Vote against Candidate C by voting for the only person who has a chance of beating her, Candidate B, even though you don't like Candidate B and would never vote for him under any other circumstance.

Any suggestion choice "3" "isn't" voting against Candidate C is crazy.

B)
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#51 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 07:44 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 21 October 2019 - 12:28 AM, said:

3 - Vote against Candidate C by voting for the only person

It seems to me we’re both right or wrong....! Truce! :lol:

FWIW, I believe that, in voting (ahem) “for” Trump, you voted against Hillary! I believe that the primary motivation was “against”.

(Still, we say we vote “for” someone even when we don’t really mean it! Semantics...)
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