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#1 User is online   Moderator T 

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  Posted 25 June 2019 - 01:57 AM

Trump Orders Health Care Providers To Reveal Prices Before They Deliver Services

JOSEPH CURL
Daily Wire
6/24/19

EXCERPT:

Imagine if you took your car into the shop and the mechanic said you need some repairs. "How much will it cost?" you ask, and the mechanic says, "No idea. Let's do the work right now, and in a couple weeks we'll send you a bill."

That's how health care providers now work. Because of varying levels of coverage by insurance companies, the same procedure could cost one patient a couple hundred dollars, while costing another a thousand or more.

President Trump has decided that is no way to do business.

In an executive order issued Monday, Trump ordered the Department of Health and Human Services and other federal agencies to develop rules that will require hospitals and other health care providers to disclose prices to show what both the insurer and the patient will pay for a service.

“The president has a clear vision for American health care,” Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar said. “Today, the president is delivering on that historic promise," adding that this will “go down as one of the most significant steps in the long history of American health care reform."

The new rules would also force health care providers and insurers to tell patients exactly what their out-of-pocket costs would be before any service is provided.

“Everyday American patients are being taken advantage of by a system that hides critical information from them that they need to make decisions for them and their families,” Azar said. He added that knowing the cost of service beforehand means Americans would be able to comparison shop — just like they might when getting their cars fixed.

(Full Story)
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#2 User is offline   Ticked@TinselTown 

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 02:21 AM

I know that headline was entirely Freudian.
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#3 User is offline   Howsithangin 

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 03:00 AM

:clap:

Fascist Left/media response: People shouldn't be paying anything! It's a basic right! :soapbox:

This post has been edited by Howsithangin: 25 June 2019 - 03:02 AM

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#4 User is online   Moderator T 

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 05:10 AM

View PostTicked@TinselTown, on 25 June 2019 - 02:21 AM, said:

I know that headline was entirely Freudian.

lol just saw that. Fixed!
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#5 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 07:59 AM

People may not realize it but this is a simple but huge step which WILL HELP enormously.
Not only at the Point of Sale but also for insurers.

There are about four others as well.

1. Get serious on illegal immigration(we have started but still have a long ways to go).
2. One bill(HPPA is the reason for the current umpteen bills, a simple amendment would by in large fix this).
3. There is no reason why flex accounts have to be used up at the end of the year, as well raise the limits. You only lose the money if the person dies and it isn't transferred to someone else.

This is of coarse number four.

Oki
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#6 User is offline   Weaseljd 

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 08:16 AM

the problem is the human body is so much more complicated than a car repair, and unlike a car, when you get sick, you can't sit in a garage for days or weeks before you decide on repairs. You have an emergent situation with symptoms you go in for, how is the hospital supposed to tell you before it does anything here is our price chart, do you want this service? Not only could this blanket rule create health and safety issues unless there are exceptions, but everyone think about any time you went to the hospital, there is no way you could always be told up front in a cost estimate what the visit would entail before it started as medical treatment can be so fluid. Yes, in elective procedures non-emergency situations (need an MRI then spine surgery to repair a disc) you could get a good estimate of the cost up front, and that would be nice. Show up in emergency room, this just is not practical.

Now, a rule requiring the hospital or health care facility or provider to post all of its charges for all CPT codes for services it offers on line, that might not be a bad idea. I would in fact be in favor of that
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Posted 25 June 2019 - 08:34 AM

View PostWeaseljd, on 25 June 2019 - 08:16 AM, said:

the problem is the human body is so much more complicated than a car repair, and unlike a car, when you get sick, you can't sit in a garage for days or weeks before you decide on repairs. You have an emergent situation with symptoms you go in for, how is the hospital supposed to tell you before it does anything here is our price chart, do you want this service? Not only could this blanket rule create health and safety issues unless there are exceptions, but everyone think about any time you went to the hospital, there is no way you could always be told up front in a cost estimate what the visit would entail before it started as medical treatment can be so fluid. Yes, in elective procedures non-emergency situations (need an MRI then spine surgery to repair a disc) you could get a good estimate of the cost up front, and that would be nice. Show up in emergency room, this just is not practical.

Now, a rule requiring the hospital or health care facility or provider to post all of its charges for all CPT codes for services it offers on line, that might not be a bad idea. I would in fact be in favor of that

The administration’s claim is that 70% of inpatient costs are shoppable and 93% of outpatient costs are shoppable.
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#8 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 08:42 AM

View PostWeaseljd, on 25 June 2019 - 08:16 AM, said:

the problem is the human body is so much more complicated than a car repair, and unlike a car, when you get sick, you can't sit in a garage for days or weeks before you decide on repairs. You have an emergent situation with symptoms you go in for, how is the hospital supposed to tell you before it does anything here is our price chart, do you want this service? Not only could this blanket rule create health and safety issues unless there are exceptions, but everyone think about any time you went to the hospital, there is no way you could always be told up front in a cost estimate what the visit would entail before it started as medical treatment can be so fluid. Yes, in elective procedures non-emergency situations (need an MRI then spine surgery to repair a disc) you could get a good estimate of the cost up front, and that would be nice. Show up in emergency room, this just is not practical.

Now, a rule requiring the hospital or health care facility or provider to post all of its charges for all CPT codes for services it offers on line, that might not be a bad idea. I would in fact be in favor of that


Well, you don't get an exact price for a repair, you get an estimate. Sometimes it's more, sometimes less, but typically around that price. Yes, the human body is extremely complicated. BUT, the vast majority of care falls in the 80-90% range of by in large being standard. That being the case an estimate is quite possible. IE I take my child in for a broken bone, they say if NO COMPLICATIONS about this much. I go in for Guillian Bare Syndrome, if you only need the 'standard' treatments and procedures about this much. While you are in care things can go wrong, other issues develop or are found, complications etc. Much the same as if I take my car in for a simple brake job and it's discovered that the Transmission is about to go out and the wheel hubs are about to come apart.

An estimate is not that hard to do in this day and age. Mechanics have a simple hour/labor guide for pretty much every single repair you can make on every car. This is used to calculate estimates.
Care providers can do much the same simply based on experience. Even if it took an in depth analysis or exam it would be worth it.

Oki
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#9 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 09:04 AM

View Postzurg, on 25 June 2019 - 08:34 AM, said:

The administration’s claim is that 70% of inpatient costs are shoppable and 93% of outpatient costs are shoppable.



Even if that isn't true(or is) getting that price ahead of time(at least for things that can wait) allows people to budget and prepare as well as learn from their insurance what to expect, who gets paid this much etc etc etc etc. It avoids the but I just paid my bill off what's this, I don't have money to pay this one to. Put it to you like this....
Imagine you get in a car crash... You walk away with just a few scratches but of coarse your car isn't so lucky.

So, you take your mechanical beastee to your trusted mechanic. He(or she) says I don't do this type of repair. If the car is drive able you take it to a couple of auto body places for estimates.
If it's not drive able they go to where it's located.

They each look at it in their shop or where it's sitting and give you price.

Again, NOTE THEY GIVE YOU A PRICE. As in one estimate per garage or business.

Typically even a light auto accident is going to involve a body shop to fix the damage to the frame and body, and more often than not they can do light mechanical repair such as changing a radiator or maybe even partial Air Conditioning repair. Many can remove and replace an entire engine and transmission but most cannot repair any damage done.
So that means any damage to the engine, recharging of Air Conditioning(which is usually needed) or more serious engine and transmission repair is done by another business.

So in short, most of the repair is done by the business you took it to. BUT, part of it is done somewhere else. Hospitals are very similar. Radiology, doctor, are often separate entities with separate bills. Imagine if you got separate bills for your auto repair, even though it went through 2 or 3 businesses?

Oki
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Posted 25 June 2019 - 10:30 AM

View Postzurg, on 25 June 2019 - 08:34 AM, said:

The administration’s claim is that 70% of inpatient costs are shoppable and 93% of outpatient costs are shoppable.


Sounds about right. Even the leftist Politifact said that only about 2% of health care spending is for emergency care. No reason we can't shop around for everything else. Nothing regulates prices better than good old fashioned free market competition.

(source)
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#11 User is offline   AntonToo 

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 10:59 AM

I think this is a good Executive Order, but ordering someone to go figure it out is easy, actual regulatory implementation will be a nightmare.

I don't expect any of this to happen anytime soon, certainly not in a year or two.

This post has been edited by AntonToo: 25 June 2019 - 10:59 AM

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#12 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 11:12 AM

View PostAntonToo, on 25 June 2019 - 10:59 AM, said:

I think this is a good Executive Order, but ordering someone to go figure it out is easy, actual regulatory implementation will be a nightmare.

I don't expect any of this to happen anytime soon, certainly not in a year or two.


It will be fought tooth and nail by the industry and of coarse those in Congress who are in their pocket. The only way this will happen is if there are fines and penalties for non compliance.
As that would then by in large become a Commerce issue and in many cases interstate commerce I don't know if the President has authority to issue EO's that directly affect Interstate Commerce. Congress yes of coarse, but the President, I don't know.

Oki
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#13 User is offline   Natural Selection 

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 12:13 PM

View PostAntonToo, on 25 June 2019 - 10:59 AM, said:

I think this is a good Executive Order, but ordering someone to go figure it out is easy, actual regulatory implementation will be a nightmare.

I don't expect any of this to happen anytime soon, certainly not in a year or two.


It will happen in less than a year. The timeline is laid out in the Executive Order.

(link to actual Executive Order)
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#14 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 01:17 PM

View PostNatural Selection, on 25 June 2019 - 12:13 PM, said:

It will happen in less than a year. The timeline is laid out in the Executive Order.

(link to actual Executive Order)



This will be fought tooth and nail by the health care industry. Why? Because it's going to cause doctor and hospital shopping for anything that where the patient does not need immediate care.
There will be a lot of questions why two hospitals who have about the same outcome reputations have such different pricing. It will force a lot of changes, namely for the 'system' to become much more efficient and less cumbersome. O we will hear all kinds of doomsday stories about how only your doctor knows you best and how going to a stranger is so bad etc etc etc.
True, your doctor may know you best, but no matter how good they are they work on a system of looking at symptoms and interpretation tests or history. Much like a mechanic. Ironically Mechanics also look at Vehicle histories as well, IE this make and model has a reputation for this problem or that one.

Oki
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Posted 25 June 2019 - 01:27 PM

View Postoki, on 25 June 2019 - 01:17 PM, said:

This will be fought tooth and nail by the health care industry. Why? Because it's going to cause doctor and hospital shopping for anything that where the patient does not need immediate care.
There will be a lot of questions why two hospitals who have about the same outcome reputations have such different pricing. It will force a lot of changes, namely for the 'system' to become much more efficient and less cumbersome. O we will hear all kinds of doomsday stories about how only your doctor knows you best and how going to a stranger is so bad etc etc etc.
True, your doctor may know you best, but no matter how good they are they work on a system of looking at symptoms and interpretation tests or history. Much like a mechanic. Ironically Mechanics also look at Vehicle histories as well, IE this make and model has a reputation for this problem or that one.

Oki


Speaking of "vehicle histories", I wish my entire medical history was in one place that could be accessed by a doctor I may be visiting for the first time. I simply can't remember every time, place, and event.
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#16 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 02:13 PM

View PostNatural Selection, on 25 June 2019 - 01:27 PM, said:

Speaking of "vehicle histories", I wish my entire medical history was in one place that could be accessed by a doctor I may be visiting for the first time. I simply can't remember every time, place, and event.


Double edged sword. Convenient, even life saving o hell yes. But, do we trust Government with it? Both from a privacy (won't sell it or let insurers have it) as well as from a cybersecurity point of view. I do not for one minute believe that Insurers wouldn't be chomping at the bit to have access to this info, even if it meant hiring hackers and using a 3rd party to access the data. Although they couldn't just arbitrarily charge higher rates to an individual, they could to a specific Zip Code, city, county or such. One or two people in that Zip have X history so charge everyone much more.

This will help eliminate a lot of the red tape which makes health care unnecessarily expensive. And yeah, auto repair is a damn good comparison because few people are savy enough to know every single issue their car has. Only when it's in for X do they find out it also needs X. And, that is often not caught by an initial exam or estimate. Only after the mechanic has it apart can some stuff be found or diagnosed. Sad thing is there are various companies/actors/groups/people what ever term you wish who have absolutely no desire to bring costs down because they are in fact profiting quite well from the dysfunction. I am not saying all Insurers, Care Providers or others involved fall into this, but enough do that it's a problem.

An EO is a start, but short of an actual law that imposes penalties for non compliance it will change nothing. EO's expire so all the S.O.B.'s will have to do is Judge shop and get delays until Trump is out of office and then wait for it to expire.

Oki
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#17 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 02:26 PM

View PostAntonToo, on 25 June 2019 - 10:59 AM, said:

I think this is a good Executive Order, but ordering someone to go figure it out is easy, actual regulatory implementation will be a nightmare.

I don't expect any of this to happen anytime soon, certainly not in a year or two.


You mean like "you can keep your plan / doctor if you like your plan/doctor"? Which really turned into a Norwellian animal farm bill designed to ration healthcare instead of providing it?
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Posted 25 June 2019 - 02:28 PM

View Postoki, on 25 June 2019 - 11:12 AM, said:

It will be fought tooth and nail by the industry and of coarse those in Congress who are in their pocket. The only way this will happen is if there are fines and penalties for non compliance.
As that would then by in large become a Commerce issue and in many cases interstate commerce I don't know if the President has authority to issue EO's that directly affect Interstate Commerce. Congress yes of coarse, but the President, I don't know.

Oki


My flight doctor posts his price for you to know them, costs me 160/ visit because I have to have 2 waivers. But you know what is coming and he's straight to the point. Good process and a no-nonsense approach to doing business.
Remember this as well a lot of our costs are because lay about's and illegals using our ERs as primary care facilities.

This post has been edited by Taggart Transcontinental: 25 June 2019 - 02:29 PM

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#19 User is offline   Timothy 

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 02:36 PM

View PostWeaseljd, on 25 June 2019 - 08:16 AM, said:

the problem is the human body is so much more complicated than a car repair, and unlike a car, when you get sick, you can't sit in a garage for days or weeks before you decide on repairs. You have an emergent situation with symptoms you go in for, how is the hospital supposed to tell you before it does anything here is our price chart, do you want this service? Not only could this blanket rule create health and safety issues unless there are exceptions, but everyone think about any time you went to the hospital, there is no way you could always be told up front in a cost estimate what the visit would entail before it started as medical treatment can be so fluid. Yes, in elective procedures non-emergency situations (need an MRI then spine surgery to repair a disc) you could get a good estimate of the cost up front, and that would be nice. Show up in emergency room, this just is not practical.

Now, a rule requiring the hospital or health care facility or provider to post all of its charges for all CPT codes for services it offers on line, that might not be a bad idea. I would in fact be in favor of that

I agree with you about emergency situations. And even in non-emergency situations, people often heavily rely on their doctors to tell them what they need.

Even so, there are many situations where people can take advantage of price disclosure and this is a good move.
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#20 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 02:40 PM

View PostTaggart Transcontinental, on 25 June 2019 - 02:28 PM, said:

My flight doctor posts his price for you to know them, costs me 160/ visit because I have to have 2 waivers. But you know what is coming and he's straight to the point. Good process and a no-nonsense approach to doing business.
Remember this as well a lot of our costs are because lay about's and illegals using our ERs as primary care facilities.


And that's the way it should be. You know what the base charge is, what insurance pays or will pay and what you will be required to fess up.
Easily all of this could be posted on a providers or even insurers web site. Granted not everything is black and white and some things are so wildly different, but %90 of procedures have costs predictable enough to at least be able to have a estimate ahead of time. And yeah, you are spot on about illegals and dead beats. They are costing ALL OF US who work and pay our bills dearly.
Clamp down on that and it will lower costs over night.

One thing I would like to throw in... any man who makes a baby while they are behind on support payments, don't stick it if you can't support it. But, doing all this would quickly diminish the DNC's voter base and possibly make them much more independent, less reliant on Government for the existence and less likely to vote Democrat. Can't have that know can we?

Oki
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