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Kaepernick Blasts ‘US Government’ for Stealing from ‘Indigenous People at ‘Unthanksgiving Day’ Ceremony Rate Topic: -----

#41 User is offline   AntiObama 

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 12:08 PM

The indigenous people lived in tents. They made no claim on the land. When they wanted to move they folded up their tents and moved.
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#42 User is online   Tea Party Hooligan 

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 12:16 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 30 November 2019 - 01:10 AM, said:

Aren't this idiot's 15 minutes up yet? I'm so sick of his BS I can taste bile in my throat.

And I've got news for him. Europeans didn't introduce violence or land-grabbing or rape or slavery or anything along such lines into the Americas. What, is he laboring under the mistaken impression that before Columbus landed all the native tribes were best buddies? The tribes never fought? Never took a defeated tribe's lands? Never raped or murdered their women or enslaved their children?

All they did was knit blankets and swap recipes?

Good GAWD he's a freaking moron.

<_<



Don't forget that most tribes were, also, nomadic, and that they didn't claim any land, per se.

Yes, Kapernick is a moron, but he's like most SJW types in that he knows so much that isn't true.
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#43 User is offline   Natural Selection 

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 01:08 PM

View Postscotsman, on 09 December 2019 - 11:47 AM, said:

And was Sand Creek or Wounded Knee and others 'civilised' behaviour?


Both of your examples happened LONG after the Indians were called savages in our Declaration of Independence. At the time the Declaration of Independence was signed the Founders were completely justified in calling the Indians savages.

Check out this timeline. Less than 2 weeks after landing at Jamestown over 200 Indians attacked them. Maybe we should greet immigrants the same way today. Or would that be savage?
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#44 User is offline   kestrel 

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 01:33 PM

View PostNatural Selection, on 09 December 2019 - 01:08 PM, said:

Both of your examples happened LONG after the Indians were called savages in our Declaration of Independence. At the time the Declaration of Independence was signed the Founders were completely justified in calling the Indians savages.

Check out this timeline. Less than 2 weeks after landing at Jamestown over 200 Indians attacked them. Maybe we should greet immigrants the same way today. Or would that be savage?

Well just consider how many in Europe have responded to the acts of savagery upon the "indigenous Peoples" of the Continent by the incursion of..Visitors from Muslim countries...given that fact his view of the situation here is understandable...
Kestrel...

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#45 User is online   scotsman 

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 01:45 PM

View PostNatural Selection, on 09 December 2019 - 12:02 PM, said:

Powhatan attack of 1622 popularly known as the Jamestown massacre took place in the English Colony of Virginia, in what is now the United States, on Friday, 22 March 1622. John Smith, though he had not been in Virginia since 1609 and was not an eyewitness, related in his History of Virginia that braves of the Powhatan "came unarmed into our houses with deer, turkeys, fish, fruits, and other provisions to sell us". The Powhatan grabbed any tools or weapons available and killed all the English settlers they found, including men, women, and children of all ages. Chief Opechancanough led the Powhatan Confederacy in a coordinated series of surprise attacks; they killed 347 people, a quarter of the population of the Virginia colony.

Matthäus Merian's dramatization of the Powhatan attack of 1622. Engraving was published in 1628.

http://i.postimg.cc/zD7ngsSt/1622-massacre-jamestown.jpg

(source)

Only savages intentionally target women and children. US soldiers never planned beforehand to intentionally target women and children.


Thanks, but surely you must know that I know all this.

BTW, white Irishmen did the exact same just twenty years later to the English and Scots in Ulster. And murdered thousands. As Cromwell was to do to them a decade after that.

Which was/is rather my point. Hell, look at the history of Europe before we all crossed the big pond.

This post has been edited by scotsman: 09 December 2019 - 01:52 PM

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#46 User is online   scotsman 

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 01:50 PM

View PostNatural Selection, on 09 December 2019 - 01:08 PM, said:

Both of your examples happened LONG after the Indians were called savages in our Declaration of Independence. At the time the Declaration of Independence was signed the Founders were completely justified in calling the Indians savages.

Check out this timeline. Less than 2 weeks after landing at Jamestown over 200 Indians attacked them. Maybe we should greet immigrants the same way today. Or would that be savage?


Well, its easier to 'deal' with people, when you consider them barely human.

Savage, yes.
Savages, no.
If the Indians of 1622 were savages, lord knows what that made us. 500 years of terror and bloodshed, to mis-quote Orson Welles.

Yes, they could be ruthless and brutal. And?.
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#47 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 02:04 PM

View Postscotsman, on 09 December 2019 - 01:50 PM, said:

Well, its easier to 'deal' with people, when you consider them barely human.

Savage, yes.
Savages, no.
If the Indians of 1622 were savages, lord knows what that made us. 500 years of terror and bloodshed, to mis-quote Orson Welles.

Yes, they could be ruthless and brutal. And?.


Truth is it went both ways. If one is to read Roman, Greek, or even the Bible there is no one group who has not acted as savages by today's standards.
People need to understand that the American Indians had been warring and trying to wipe each other out LONG before Europeans arrived. But, since few if any kept records much less had a written language there isn't much direct info. Europeans simply documented stuff. WE are living in a 'enlightened' time when this type of behavior is no longer acceptable and believed to be something done only by savages and people who are not civilized. True as it is, it was common and everyone did it. War was total, meaning leave little to no trace of your enemy. Not a justification, just clarity that every single civilization and group has done this. It's nice to think as human beings the world has moved past this, but, as is continually proved in some places many have not and still practice this.
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#48 User is online   scotsman 

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 02:09 PM

View Postoki, on 09 December 2019 - 02:04 PM, said:

Truth is it went both ways. If one is to read Roman, Greek, or even the Bible there is no one group who has not acted as savages by today's standards.
People need to understand that the American Indians had been warring and trying to wipe each other out LONG before Europeans arrived. But, since few if any kept records much less had a written language there isn't much direct info. Europeans simply documented stuff. WE are living in a 'enlightened' time when this type of behavior is no longer acceptable and believed to be something done only by savages and people who are not civilized. True as it is, it was common and everyone did it. War was total, meaning leave little to no trace of your enemy. Not a justification, just clarity that every single civilization and group has done this. It's nice to think as human beings the world has moved past this, but, as is continually proved in some places many have not and still practice this.


:yeahthat:
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#49 User is offline   MTP Reggie 

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 02:14 PM

View Postscotsman, on 09 December 2019 - 01:45 PM, said:

Thanks, but surely you must know that I know all this.

BTW, white Irishmen did the exact same just twenty years later to the English and Scots in Ulster. And murdered thousands. As Cromwell was to do to them a decade after that.

Which was/is rather my point. Hell, look at the history of Europe before we all crossed the big pond.


I saw something during the American Thanksgiving celebration that made me chuckle...


From a Brit:

"If we had a day off (of celebration) for every time we conquered and destroyed an indigenous people, we'd never work."
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#50 User is offline   Natural Selection 

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 02:21 PM

View Postscotsman, on 09 December 2019 - 01:50 PM, said:

Well, its easier to 'deal' with people, when you consider them barely human.

Savage, yes.
Savages, no.
If the Indians of 1622 were savages, lord knows what that made us. 500 years of terror and bloodshed, to mis-quote Orson Welles.

Yes, they could be ruthless and brutal. And?.


The facts are not in question. Your interpretation of them is.

You are taking events from different time frames to compare the civility of certain societies. I am saying that AT THE TIME OF OUR ARRIVAL the Indians were savages. We were not.
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#51 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 04:29 PM

View PostNatural Selection, on 09 December 2019 - 02:21 PM, said:

The facts are not in question. Your interpretation of them is.

You are taking events from different time frames to compare the civility of certain societies. I am saying that AT THE TIME OF OUR ARRIVAL the Indians were savages. We were not.


I think something people really need to understand is that Indian(namely American)is so damn generic and misleading it ain't even funny.
They where (and still are) called nations for a reason. Completely different languages, different spiritual beliefs, customs, huge differences.
While many where fierce warriors, aggressive, and would kill an enemy or ANYTHING they perceived as a threat, some where actually pretty peace full, but would fight like hell if they felt the need.
If that need, or feeling of it arose, by God there was no one left to tell the story. Survivors where enslaved or tortured to death. This was pretty much the norm.

But, at the same time the new arrivals could be nearly or just as nasty. Sadly, it's the way things worked back then. Certainly doesn't make it right, just that we need to understand this instead of playing politics and passing judgement. Hell, even in the times of King David the norm was to completely wipe out an enemy to include the woman, children, animals, essentially as best you could leave no trace of their existence. Thing is that only in the last 100-150 years has the 'Civilized World' largely abandoned this leave no trace of their existence philosophy.
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#52 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 04:33 PM

View Postscotsman, on 09 December 2019 - 02:09 PM, said:

:yeahthat:



Thanks, the most important thing about studying history is not to start with a who was good and who was bad.
Get all the facts, weigh them against the societal norms and laws of the time for all sides. Very very rarely are things black and white, usually they are quite Grey.
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#53 User is offline   stick 

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 05:42 PM

Would someone please hire this tackling dummy so he'll shut up?
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#54 User is offline   stick 

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 05:45 PM

View PostHieronymous, on 07 December 2019 - 03:10 PM, said:

Smoking is allowed in native casinos. Not sure what Kaeprnicks issue is...


pRoBaBlY tHe pHlEgM dUsT
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#55 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 05:48 PM

View Poststick, on 09 December 2019 - 05:45 PM, said:

pRoBaBlY tHe pHlEgM dUsT


wE ALl agREe!
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