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#61 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 08:35 AM

View PostLadybird, on 17 May 2019 - 08:10 AM, said:

Did you change the youtube links? When I click on them now it shows foreigners.

In any case, I remember the onevwith the two fighting. The other person has a knife too, if I remember correctly, so I. don’t why a person would be charged with murder for defending themselve.




I have changed nothing. I posted a link from Islamburg which shows woman TRAINING, I also posted two more showing Terrorist training methods and there is either no difference in the methods, and or what the woman where receiving is actually even more in depth and or more military in manner.

SELF DEFENSE ONLY EXTENDS ENOUGH TO SAVE YOUR LIFE!! Not slit the throat FROM BEHIND of an incapacitated or subdued person from behind. Your defense of the in defensible has reached new levels. That's paramilitary terrorist training pure and simple.
Do you know who does the type of training in the video from Islamburg?
I WILL TELL YOU AGAIN

Military
Police, but only to an extent, and only the very basic squad movements, largely SWAT when it applies to an urban setting. Not moving through the woods.
Some Government Agencies, but again only to a point, and not doing squad type movements in the forest.

Or... wait for it.. Terrorist training.
If they where training to defend their home they would be training on how to defend occupied or even un occupied buildings.
NOT HOW TO ADVANCE AND OR ASSAULT A POSITION!

Plus, and again, repelling of a tower has not a damn thing to do with self defense. It's used to build conditioning, over come fear, move into a position(fast), AND enter a building fast and with force.


Care to take a stab that Trump lied about Muslims dancing from rooftops on 9/11?
Or is it only the CONFIRMED numbers which matter? Not reports and not eyewitness testimony it happened?
It's not like that for every one on a roof top or in the street seen there weren't more behind closed doors or who where silently cheering it, not just in New Jersey but all over the country, right?

How about military pay, that Trump lied? Across the board all members got an %8 hike(more than anything they ever got under Obama)
Throw in other hikes in allowances such as housing, and yeah, it's %10 or more.

Maybe you'd like to tell me how those who said these camps exist weren't ridiculed, labeled as racist, Islamaphobic and just right wing haters?

All you have provided is that there where threats against one or more camps. Ever thought that when videos come out of people doing paramilitary training it causes concern? By the way, that video was shot on a cassette type machine. More than likely that training took place long before the very threats you claim prompted it.

Oki
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#62 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 08:49 AM

View Postoki, on 17 May 2019 - 08:35 AM, said:

I have changed nothing. I posted a link from Islamburg which shows woman TRAINING, I also posted two more showing Terrorist training methods and there is either no difference in the methods, and or what the woman where receiving is actually even more in depth and or more military in manner.

SELF DEFENSE ONLY EXTENDS ENOUGH TO SAVE YOUR LIFE!! Not slit the throat FROM BEHIND of an incapacitated or subdued person from behind. Your defense of the in defensible has reached new levels. That's paramilitary terrorist training pure and simple.
Do you know who does the type of training in the video from Islamburg?
I WILL TELL YOU AGAIN

Military
Police, but only to an extent, and only the very basic squad movements, largely SWAT when it applies to an urban setting. Not moving through the woods.
Some Government Agencies, but again only to a point, and not doing squad type movements in the forest.

Or... wait for it.. Terrorist training.
If they where training to defend their home they would be training on how to defend occupied or even un occupied buildings.
NOT HOW TO ADVANCE AND OR ASSAULT A POSITION!

Plus, and again, repelling of a tower has not a damn thing to do with self defense. It's used to build conditioning, over come fear, move into a position(fast), AND enter a building fast and with force.


Care to take a stab that Trump lied about Muslims dancing from rooftops on 9/11?
Or is it only the CONFIRMED numbers which matter? Not reports and not eyewitness testimony it happened?
It's not like that for every one on a roof top or in the street seen there weren't more behind closed doors or who where silently cheering it, not just in New Jersey but all over the country, right?

How about military pay, that Trump lied? Across the board all members got an %8 hike(more than anything they ever got under Obama)
Throw in other hikes in allowances such as housing, and yeah, it's %10 or more.

Maybe you'd like to tell me how those who said these camps exist weren't ridiculed, labeled as racist, Islamaphobic and just right wing haters?

All you have provided is that there where threats against one or more camps. Ever thought that when videos come out of people doing paramilitary training it causes concern? By the way, that video was shot on a cassette type machine. More than likely that training took place long before the very threats you claim prompted it.

Oki


Maybe we’re looking at different links. The ones in your post are from a foreign country.

20 guys on a rooftop is a whole lot different than “thousands and thousands” cheering, which is what he claimed he witnessed. It leaves the impression that almost every Muslim resident of Jersey City celebrated the WTC destruction. That is a smear and a lie. You Trumpsters trying to twist HIS OWN WORDS into something else doesn’t make it so.


Twice he exaggerated (lied) about military pay raises. When he did it the first time it was pointed outbto him, but he repeated it anyway.
https://www.military...tary-pay-again/

“Oh I know, that’s just Trump being Trump.. “ can hear it already..
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#63 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:14 AM

View PostLadybird, on 17 May 2019 - 08:49 AM, said:

Maybe we’re looking at different links. The ones in your post are from a foreign country.

20 guys on a rooftop is a whole lot different than “thousands and thousands” cheering, which is what he claimed he witnessed. It leaves the impression that almost every Muslim resident of Jersey City celebrated the WTC destruction. That is a smear and a lie. You Trumpsters trying to twist HIS OWN WORDS into something else doesn’t make it so.


Twice he exaggerated (lied) about military pay raises. When he did it the first time it was pointed outbto him, but he repeated it anyway.
https://www.military...tary-pay-again/

“Oh I know, that’s just Trump being Trump.. “ can hear it already..



Unlike you I am not just posting a story to a LINK I LOOKED UP AND POSTED PAY CHARTS FROM 2018 and 2019!!!!
I even did the math for you. The average hike is %8 throw in hikes in housing allowance and it does come out to %10
If you actually cared about the truth you'd care about the math.

https://www.youtube....h?v=bxoykqCSruY
This is not a foreign country

How do I know?
The old yellow car, that looks like a mid 70's Ford or Mecury
The camper/trailer
THe single wide trailer

And.. the cadence that guy is yelling sounds exactly the same as what you can hear from the other links I posted!
That's very interesting.

Oh yeah when does self defense training involve the use of Bayonets? THERE IS ONLY ONE AND ONE ONLY GROUP WHO TRAIN IN THE USE OF BAYONETS!!! Well three actually, the United States Army, the United States Marine Corp, and to a smaller extent the United States Navy!!!! Tell me self defense training involves picking up a knife and slitting someones throat while they are on the ground. Go ahead ask an instructor even.

Oki
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#64 User is offline   JerryL 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:23 AM

View PostLadybird, on 17 May 2019 - 08:35 AM, said:

As soon as others directly addressed it to me. You’re are tired of seeing it? Whine to them.

9/11 was this country’s most traumatic event and this POS used it, in front of an Alabama audience, to drum up even more hatred of people who many, especially Trump supporters, have suspicions of anyway. It was a vicious lie for which he has never apologized and has repeated.

I’ve never claimed Obama never lied so your “what abouts” are worthless.

You are nothing if not funny. Well, OK, consistent, too.

I can't think of one time in the entire time that you have been here that you complained about any of the lies that Obama spewed. If you did, please feel free to post it. If anyone else remembers one, I am happy to take them at their word.

Remember when Obama sent his whole foreign policy team out to blame Benghazi on an obscure video that no one had ever seen? Remember how he did this KNOWING that it was false. Remember how he did this to somehow distract from or shift the blame for an Islamic terrorist attack that killed American citizens, including a sitting US Ambassador? None of that was ever apologized for, either. In fact they lied about knowing that they did KNOW it was a terrorist attack from the beginning. But somehow it is a stump speech by a candidate that twists your Wonder Woman's into tight knot.

Again, your crocodile tears over truth and honesty are fooling no one. Not even you believe them.

As to the bold, that made me laugh out loud coming from the absolute Queen of the what about. More crocodile tears and faux outrage.
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#65 User is online   zurg 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:23 AM

View PostLadybird, on 17 May 2019 - 08:35 AM, said:

As soon as others directly addressed it to me. You’re are tired of seeing it? Whine to them.

9/11 was this country’s most traumatic event and this POS used it, in front of an Alabama audience, to drum up even more hatred of people who many, especially Trump supporters, have suspicions of anyway. It was a vicious lie for which he has never apologized and has repeated.

I’ve never claimed Obama never lied so your “what abouts” are worthless.

The point, which you have missed entirely is that, since this society seems to be differentiating between exaggerating and lying, Trump’s claim was an exaggeration while your claim was a lie.

I’m still feeling really good about this, by the way.
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#66 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:41 AM

View Postzurg, on 17 May 2019 - 09:23 AM, said:

The point, which you have missed entirely is that, since this society seems to be differentiating between exaggerating and lying, Trump’s claim was an exaggeration while your claim was a lie.

I’m still feeling really good about this, by the way.

No, his claim was a lie. Not an exaggeration. Not an ‘alternative fact’.
A lie.
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#67 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:44 AM

View Postoki, on 17 May 2019 - 09:14 AM, said:

Unlike you I am not just posting a story to a LINK I LOOKED UP AND POSTED PAY CHARTS FROM 2018 and 2019!!!!
I even did the math for you. The average hike is %8 throw in hikes in housing allowance and it does come out to %10
If you actually cared about the truth you'd care about the math.

https://www.youtube....h?v=bxoykqCSruY
This is not a foreign country

How do I know?
The old yellow car, that looks like a mid 70's Ford or Mecury
The camper/trailer
THe single wide trailer

And.. the cadence that guy is yelling sounds exactly the same as what you can hear from the other links I posted!
That's very interesting.

Oh yeah when does self defense training involve the use of Bayonets? THERE IS ONLY ONE AND ONE ONLY GROUP WHO TRAIN IN THE USE OF BAYONETS!!! Well three actually, the United States Army, the United States Marine Corp, and to a smaller extent the United States Navy!!!! Tell me self defense training involves picking up a knife and slitting someones throat while they are on the ground. Go ahead ask an instructor even.

Oki



Ok we were looking at different links.

That looks like women learning how to defend themselves when attacked by someone with a weapon. Have you ever taken a self defense class?

I don’t see anything wrong with a woman learning how to not only defend herself, but turn the tables on her attacker.


Incidentally, have you noticed the date on this video says January 28th? There’s no way there would be all that greenery in January in western NY. I know that area well. It’s usually snowing.

This post has been edited by Ladybird: 17 May 2019 - 09:50 AM

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#68 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:57 AM

View PostLadybird, on 17 May 2019 - 09:44 AM, said:

Ok we were looking at different links.

That looks like women learning how to defend themselves when attacked by someone with a weapon. Have you ever taken a self defense class?

I don’t see anything wrong with a woman learning how to not only defend herself, but turn the tables on her attacker.


Incidentally, have you noticed the date on this video says January 28th? There’s no way there would be all that greenery in January in western NY. I know that area well. It’s usually snowing.


One it doesn't matter where it's shot, it's the U.S. no question.

TWO, and yet again, you are telling me that slitting someones throat from behind AFTER INCAPACITATING THEM is self defense?
Learning how to stab someone with a bayonet attached to a rifle is self defense?
Learning basic squad tactics is self defense?

I dare you to show that video to a cop, mil member, or self defense teacher and tell them it's self defense training.
Turning the tables does not mean killing your attacker when they are no longer a threat. If that was the case then it would be a okay to shoot people laying on the ground or with their back turned.

Plus no response about Trump the liar, come one. That should be easy.
Show me the math that Trump lied about mil pay, tell me that there weren't a number of Muslims dancing and celebrating 911.
Much less that from a distance it could appear to be a huge number.

Tell me that Clarion and anyone else who said there are terrorist training camps here wasn't ridiculed and labeled for suggesting it.

Oki

By the way, not everyone sets the date, way back when 2000 was the default a lot of stuff went to if it had not been set or batteries where removed.

This post has been edited by oki: 17 May 2019 - 09:59 AM

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#69 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:03 AM

Obama knew about these locations and did nothing about them.

https://www.wnd.com/2012/01/381953/
Notice the date. 2012. We know they are training and operating inside the US. This may be a "new" discovery but there are plenty of them.

Quote

Seven of the compounds have been identified as training facilities: Marion, Alabama; Commerce, Georgia; Macon, Georgia; Talihina, Oklahoma; York County, South Carolina; Dover, Tennessee and Red House, Virginia. Other compounds are located in California, Colorado, Texas, Maryland, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Washington, Michigan and West Virginia.



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Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:07 AM

View PostLadybird, on 15 May 2019 - 09:59 AM, said:

So you disapprove of American legal gun owners joining with others to train and protect their communities?


When they are training to overthrow the Constitution yes. When they own guns legally no, but they are not allowed to create their own armies. There are state run militias that are legal, and others that are illegal. One of the biggest threats to law enforcement is "sovereign citizens", most of them are white groups with the usual stupid theories, however there are black groups that call themselves "moores" and are basically islamic groups pushing sovereignty for their own misguided principles. Regardless if you demand the overthrow of the Constitution and build an army for the day it comes, I don't care what your skin color is, you will have a bad day.
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Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:09 AM

View PostLadybird, on 15 May 2019 - 10:44 AM, said:

Your link mentioned an Islamist 'training camp' in Islamburg, aka Hancock, NY. This place may very well have guys in clamflouge with guns, but it also has families. It is a community that has women and children that have been threatened by right wing fanatics, fed by online conspiracy theorists.

https://www.reuters....g-idUSKBN15V2SC
https://www.nytimes....-community.html
https://www.thedaily...2b606bdabe.html

Why should these people not be able to protect themselves?

Are you saying there are no Christian militia groups in this country?


Oddly enough there was a place in Waco Texas that had a similar ideology and thought process. Who was the President and DOJ that directed the attack on that compound??? Hmmm I wonder. ....
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Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:13 AM

View PostLadybird, on 15 May 2019 - 12:47 PM, said:

And communities trying to protect themselves from armed crazies and bombers.


How many white supremacist groups have formed armies and attacked a "muslim community"? Oh that's right NONE. There have been no outright wars in our country. An occasional idiot with a plan is not a requirement to train a group of people in armed city warfare, or as we in the military call it MOUT fighting. Which is what these shooting houses are designed for.

Since you know crap and nothing about combat operations let me enlighten you on something. If you are in the the defense of a house you go to a secure location with no windows and good cover and you fight from there. As long as its a lone gunman you stand a strong chance of living and winning. On the other hand MOUT sites are not designed for defensive operations and training, they are designed to train small unit tactics and squad maneuver in the offense. Meaning how do you and your team clear a building after you have taken the outer perimeter.

Training people to do this sort of thing indicates an intent to ATTACK not defend.

Now back to your random "white people do it too" nonsense.

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:16 AM

View PostLadybird, on 15 May 2019 - 01:24 PM, said:

The video of Islamburg in your link showed women with weapons marching. That's it.

I have no doubt there are jihadists lurking and training for nefarious purposes in the US, however not every group that is arming themselves and preparing for a violent attack belongs in that category.


Women with weapons marching. Would you characterize the same thing in this picture?
https://news.stanford.edu/news/2011/august/images/military_news.jpg
You have no understanding of what you are talking about so it's best to be quiet. Why do Soldiers March?

1 to get somewhere in an orderly fashion2 to train in group maneuvers, build motivation3 to coordinate tactical training4 moving with weapons is a show of force.

Marching with weapons in a formation is a basic military movement it is where ALL armies start. When you go to basic training the first thing is basic formation, ranks and marching. Then adding weapons to the mix. It's army 101.

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#74 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:24 AM

View Postoki, on 17 May 2019 - 09:57 AM, said:

One it doesn't matter where it's shot, it's the U.S. no question.

TWO, and yet again, you are telling me that slitting someones throat from behind AFTER INCAPACITATING THEM is self defense?
Learning how to stab someone with a bayonet attached to a rifle is self defense?
Learning basic squad tactics is self defense?

I dare you to show that video to a cop, mil member, or self defense teacher and tell them it's self defense training.
Turning the tables does not mean killing your attacker when they are no longer a threat. If that was the case then it would be a okay to shoot people laying on the ground or with their back turned.

Plus no response about Trump the liar, come one. That should be easy.
Show me the math that Trump lied about mil pay, tell me that there weren't a number of Muslims dancing and celebrating 911.
Much less that from a distance it could appear to be a huge number.

Tell me that Clarion and anyone else who said there are terrorist training camps here wasn't ridiculed and labeled for suggesting it.

Oki

By the way, not everyone sets the date, way back when 2000 was the default a lot of stuff went to if it had not been set or batteries where removed.


He has repeatedly claimed they did not recieve a raise during the Obama administration. That is not true.

Of course where it was shot matters. Islamburg is in Hancock NY. Hancock NY in January doesn’t look like that.
If these women were not Muslim with brown faces, would this “clarion project” be against them learning techniques to defend themselves and their families?
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#75 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:28 AM

View PostTaggart Transcontinental, on 17 May 2019 - 10:16 AM, said:

Women with weapons marching. Would you characterize the same thing in this picture?
https://news.stanford.edu/news/2011/august/images/military_news.jpg
You have no understanding of what you are talking about so it's best to be quiet. Why do Soldiers March?

1 to get somewhere in an orderly fashion2 to train in group maneuvers, build motivation3 to coordinate tactical training4 moving with weapons is a show of force.

Marching with weapons in a formation is a basic military movement it is where ALL armies start. When you go to basic training the first thing is basic formation, ranks and marching. Then adding weapons to the mix. It's army 101.



Next you'll be told that learning how to disarm, incapacitate, then slit someones throat from behind or bayonet them from the ground is self defense training. And so is repelling, so is doing a V/Wedge in the woods, so is squad tactics and more.
It's not like you or more have done this type of training and know it's purpose.

Oki
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Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:29 AM

View PostLadybird, on 17 May 2019 - 10:24 AM, said:

He has repeatedly claimed they did not recieve a raise during the Obama administration. That is not true.

Of course where it was shot matters. Islamburg is in Hancock NY. Hancock NY in January doesn't look like that.
If these women were not Muslim with brown faces, would this "clarion project" be against them learning techniques to defend themselves and their families?


Again, Defensive techniques are not raiding a building and killing all those within it. That is what military personnel and law enforcement train in on the offensive side to take down threats in houses. If you want to defend yourself you do not need a MOUT site. You need a good corner some cover and a good firearm with markmanship training. Exactly what I taught my wife. She does not have to clear the house, she just. has to defend her corner of it.
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#77 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:43 AM

View PostLadybird, on 17 May 2019 - 10:24 AM, said:

He has repeatedly claimed they did not recieve a raise during the Obama administration. That is not true.

Of course where it was shot matters. Islamburg is in Hancock NY. Hancock NY in January doesn’t look like that.
If these women were not Muslim with brown faces, would this “clarion project” be against them learning techniques to defend themselves and their families?


Are they receiving a %10 raise? Show me the math, it's 8 for pay and 2+ for other things such as housing. Yeah they received tiny raises under Obama in that he is wrong though.
Again, you know for sure the person bothered to set the date? That looks like an old school cassette type camera. Every damn time you changed batteries or they wore out the clock went back to Jan 1,2000 Either way you cannot defend this type of training as self defense so you won't go into detail about it. Go ahead ask a cop, vet, or even self defense teacher if any of that is self defense type training. You won't because you know damn good and well it's not. Like I said, do you think if you slit someones throat from behind after disarming them or bayoneting them on the ground you wouldn't be charged with murder in New York State? Come on, would you? Yes or no? There's the litmus test right there, would those actions get you a murder charge?
O that's right, I already asked that question and as usual you refuse to answer. Tell me there weren't NUMEROUS MUSLIMS dancing and celebrating 911. Go ahead down play the numbers but like I said, less than 30 gave us 911 and for everyone celebrating openly there will be more behind closed doors and still more agreeing with it.



Oki
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Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:58 AM

View PostLadybird, on 17 May 2019 - 09:41 AM, said:

No, his claim was a lie. Not an exaggeration. Not an ‘alternative fact’.
A lie.

If the choices were only “(exact) truth” and “lie”, then Trump’s statement would be a lie. It turns out that he didn’t lie about there having been Muslim celebrants in New Jersey. He didn’t lie about them being in neighborhoods with (quite possibly) a view of the burning towers. He exaggerated their amount.

You on the other hand were wrong about there having been any at all. You said zero. I’m willing to say you were wrong rather than you lied. But you SHOULD learn a thing or two here. The most important being, there clearly were Muslims in NJ celebrating. What does that tell you?
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#79 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:58 AM

View Postoki, on 17 May 2019 - 10:43 AM, said:

Are they receiving a %10 raise? Show me the math, it's 8 for pay and 2+ for other things such as housing. Yeah they received tiny raises under Obama in that he is wrong though.
Again, you know for sure the person bothered to set the date? That looks like an old school cassette type camera. Every damn time you changed batteries or they wore out the clock went back to Jan 1,2000 Either way you cannot defend this type of training as self defense so you won't go into detail about it. Go ahead ask a cop, vet, or even self defense teacher if any of that is self defense type training. You won't because you know damn good and well it's not. Like I said, do you think if you slit someones throat from behind after disarming them or bayoneting them on the ground you wouldn't be charged with murder in New York State? Come on, would you? Yes or no? There's the litmus test right there, would those actions get you a murder charge?
O that's right, I already asked that question and as usual you refuse to answer. Tell me there weren't NUMEROUS MUSLIMS dancing and celebrating 911. Go ahead down play the numbers but like I said, less than 30 gave us 911 and for everyone celebrating openly there will be more behind closed doors and still more agreeing with it.



Oki


It’s still a lie even IF people were celebrating behind closed doors. Considering this was right across the river, where many Jerseyites commute to and from work, they were more likely worried about friends and loved ones, you know like other human beings.
What did Gouliani say? “Truth isn’t truth”.
Trump and Cult 45 have their own version of the truth.

This post has been edited by Ladybird: 17 May 2019 - 11:10 AM

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#80 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 11:45 AM

View PostLadybird, on 17 May 2019 - 10:58 AM, said:

It’s still a lie even IF people were celebrating behind closed doors. Considering this was right across the river, where many Jerseyites commute to and from work, they were more likely worried about friends and loved ones, you know like other human beings.
What did Gouliani say? “Truth isn’t truth”.
Trump and Cult 45 have their own version of the truth.


Then so is calling what they Woman in the video where doing self defense. Or maybe mistaken, your choice. Either you are mistaken because you have no clue or your knowingly lying through your teeth because you won't admit that what they are doing is Paramilitary Terrorist training.

Oki
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