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Trump slaps tariffs on Mexican imports until illegal immigration probl Rate Topic: -----

#21 User is offline   AntiObama 

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 11:14 PM

It's time for Mexico to pay their fair f'ing share.
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#22 User is offline   Moderator T 

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 12:05 AM

View PostNoclevermoniker, on 31 May 2019 - 09:45 PM, said:

I donít believe the post referred to our military, rather American males of age, many of whom are pretty soft.

True, although he didn't really exclude those actually fighting in the military now. But maybe he's just speaking in broad terms so that any Hispanics are able to understand since they lack "cerebral understanding."
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#23 User is offline   BerkeleyUnderground 

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 12:34 PM

View Postmoocow, on 31 May 2019 - 12:31 AM, said:

How is this legal? Tariffs are the jurisdiction of congress (Article I Section 8). There's nothing in the Constitution that grants the president the power to create and maintain tariffs.


View PostModerator T, on 31 May 2019 - 12:52 AM, said:

Congress gave away part of their tariff power in the Trade Expansion Act of 1962, allowing the President to levy tariffs either through trade negotiations or for national security reasons.


View PostGrimV, on 31 May 2019 - 02:30 PM, said:

Illegals are fleeing their host countries due to economic hardship. Trump believes increasing economic hardship will stem the flow of illegals.

And this logic makes sense because...why?


View PostSARGE, on 31 May 2019 - 03:21 PM, said:

Bullseye!

IMO this is an overreach by Trump. If it was objectionable and wrong to Conservatives under Obama, Clinton, and Bush, it's just as wrong under Trump.


Assuming checking runaway immigration is a desired goal and I gotta wonder if that's even true with some people here, what would you guys do?
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#24 User is offline   BerkeleyUnderground 

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 12:36 PM

View PostModerator T, on 01 June 2019 - 12:05 AM, said:

...maybe he's just speaking in broad terms so that any Hispanics are able to understand since they lack "cerebral understanding."


Why do you think it is that Latinos here REQUIRE affirmative action?
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#25 User is offline   Moderator T 

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 02:20 PM

View PostBerkeleyUnderground, on 02 June 2019 - 12:34 PM, said:

Assuming checking runaway immigration is a desired goal and I gotta wonder if that's even true with some people here, what would you guys do?


Punish employers who hire illegals. Maintain a military presence on the border. Build walls where possible.

Just because I care about things like expanding expanding executive power, ignoring the constitution, and smaller government, doesn't mean I am somehow for runaway illegal immigration. I'm just not going to throw away the things I believe in because bluepartybad. It is an old story where Republicans abandon Conservative principles when they get elected. These days it seems many conservatives are cheering them on because they like the end results and hate the left (with good reason). But what's the point if we don't act any differently than the left?

Moo is right, tariffs belong to Congress. Why bother having a constitution at all if we're going to ignore it?

Grim has a point: IF we make things even worse in Mexico economically, do you think that'll convince more people to try and come here illegally or less?

Sarge is spot on: Had a Dem president started slapping tariffs on other countries we'd be furious.

View PostBerkeleyUnderground, on 02 June 2019 - 12:36 PM, said:

Why do you think it is that Latinos here REQUIRE affirmative action?


Because Democrats know it'll get them votes. Sorry, I have a problem with painting whole nationalities or ethnic groups with a broadly bigoted brush. Do you think Hispanics or Mexicans as a whole are "tough hombres" but "lack cerebral understanding" of things?
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#26 User is offline   BerkeleyUnderground 

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 02:43 PM

View PostModerator T, on 02 June 2019 - 02:20 PM, said:

Punish employers who hire illegals. Maintain a military presence on the border. Build walls where possible.

Sorry, I have a problem with painting whole nationalities or ethnic groups with a broadly bigoted brush.



In other words, you really wouldn't deal with the problem.

None of you would, in my opinion.

Whatever the deficiency Latinos are perceived to have vis a vis the formerly dominant European culture, ALL Latinos get affirmative action.

And isn't it pretty obvious that the days of a meritocracy are over where an individual could break through stereotypes.

This post has been edited by BerkeleyUnderground: 02 June 2019 - 02:50 PM

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#27 User is offline   GrimV 

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 03:15 PM

View PostBerkeleyUnderground, on 02 June 2019 - 12:34 PM, said:

Assuming checking runaway immigration is a desired goal and I gotta wonder if that's even true with some people here, what would you guys do?


I would start by not supporting this logic: "Illegals are fleeing their host countries due to economic hardship. Trump believes increasing economic hardship will stem the flow of illegals."

Good intentions are worthless if they make matters worse (SEE: Obamacare).
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#28 User is offline   BerkeleyUnderground 

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 03:21 PM

View PostGrimV, on 02 June 2019 - 03:15 PM, said:

Good intentions are worthless if they make matters worse.


Which sounds to me like what you're advocating here.

....to continue to do nothing or we'll make things worse.

But how could they be any worse because I see us loosing our country.

This post has been edited by BerkeleyUnderground: 02 June 2019 - 03:27 PM

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#29 User is offline   GrimV 

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 03:59 PM

View PostBerkeleyUnderground, on 02 June 2019 - 03:21 PM, said:

Which sounds to me like what you're advocating here.

....to continue to do nothing or we'll make things worse.

But how could they be any worse because I see us loosing our country.


Yes, yes ó I know. ďCriticizing Trumpís solution means you want to flood the US with illegalsĒ, and ďCriticizing Obamacare means you want a world filled with dead poor peopleĒ. Blah, blah, blah. A False Dichotomy is still a logical fallacy, regardless of the aisle.

Said it before and Iíll say it again: If your position is supported by a logical fallacy youíve already lost the argument.

But hereís the neat twist with False Dichotomies: The purpose is not to necessarily *win* the argument. Itís to shame your opponent into adopting your position. Threatening ďotherizationĒ if they fail to cooperate.

Problem is, I donít shame easily. So unless you can explain how increasing economic hardship on people already fleeing economic hardship will magically moderate the illegal influx, your mission has failed miserably.
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#30 User is offline   BerkeleyUnderground 

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 04:13 PM

View PostGrimV, on 02 June 2019 - 03:59 PM, said:

Problem is, I don't shame easily.


So I've noticed.

You seem to have no problem being regularly parked in stuck on stupid land.

I don't think we should let a single person into the country who requires affirmative action and I guess that means zero Latinos.
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#31 User is online   SARGE 

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 06:17 PM

View PostBerkeleyUnderground, on 02 June 2019 - 04:13 PM, said:

So I've noticed.

You seem to have no problem being regularly parked in stuck on stupid land.

I don't think we should let a single person into the country who requires affirmative action and I guess that means zero Latinos.



Now there's a solid argument.

Someone disagrees with your approach (and in this case Trump's) so they're "stuck on stupid".

To encounter "stuck on stupid" I suggest you look in a mirror.
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#32 User is online   Squirrel 

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 06:29 PM

Iím not sure if trumps tariffs would help or not. But I do think heís over stepped his power granted by law. Which is all good until thereís a left wing president.As for what ever is being spewed about Spanish etc. I have no issue with any race. The comments negative to Spanish are offensive to me. Since my ex was 1/2 Spanish and my son is 1/4. There is no race issue to ď we are losing our country to anyone.Ē. There is an illegal immigration issue we will lose it to and the democrats giving the country away. But guess what underground not all illegals are mentally challenged Mexicans or how ever you phrased it. The statements you are making are not only rascist but offensive. Ask a first or second generation legal Spanish immigrant what they think of illegal immigration. I know a lot in dallas, guess what they donít like it and consider it a threat to the country. But unlike you they are not spouting it in a racist manner. I hope you at some point rethink that attitude.

This post has been edited by Squirrel: 02 June 2019 - 06:29 PM

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#33 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 06:56 PM

The real problem when trying to solve illegal immigration is that a certain not small (even if minority) section of the nation does not want to allow it. They fight every attempt to curb illegal immigration. Most of them are on the political left.

So I understand that Trump is trying to do SOMETHING. Iím with him on that in principle - obviously democrats and certain republicans in Congress have undermined him very seriously. HOWEVER, this doesnít look to be the right action. Yeah, easy for me to say, because I donít know what ese heís got as options. But I think this is a dumb move by Trump - I would double down on building the wall and enhancing border security.

Going after employers will have to come later, after the border has been closed for a while, and employers have truly been on notice. To think you could do that tomorrow (however tempting) is to invite political failure.
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#34 User is offline   BerkeleyUnderground 

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 07:26 PM

View PostSARGE, on 02 June 2019 - 06:17 PM, said:

Someone disagrees with your approach (and in this case Trump's) so they're "stuck on stupid".


Stuck on stupid to me means someone who persists in believing that what they believe should work even when it doesn't but eventually might.

And they never rethink things because they think their original idea was so good to begin with so they remain stuck with it.

So I meant it as an appropriate description and not a throw away cheap shoot.

In my real life I think I'm a problem solver and someone who usually gets things done because I can think out of the box.

And that's what I see Pres. Trump trying to do in this situation.
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#35 User is offline   BerkeleyUnderground 

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 07:30 PM

And, BTW, Andrew Jackson, welcome, and I'm glad you're here and I hope you'll stick around and keep contributing!
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#36 User is online   Squirrel 

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 07:34 PM

View PostBerkeleyUnderground, on 02 June 2019 - 07:26 PM, said:

Stuck on stupid to me means someone who persists in believing that what they believe should work even when it doesn't but eventually might.

And they never rethink things because they think their original idea was so good to begin with so they remain stuck with it.

So I meant it as an appropriate description and not a throw away cheap shoot.

In my real life I think I'm a problem solver and someone who usually gets things done because I can think out of the box.

And that's what I see Pres. Trump trying to do in this situation.

So when the next president decides he doesnít need to follow the law or constitution your ok with that, because heís ď solving a problemĒ his base believes in. What if itís gun ban? What if itís just open borders, what if.... so breaking the rules are fine if it fits what you believe in? I didnít like Obamaís pen and phone run around. I like most of what trump does but I canít say heís right on this. What will you say when the next socialist democrat is in office and does the same thing? I can already guess ď but thatís different. This is a crisis. ď. Well Iíve seen what the democrats consider a crisis donít think they will use the same abuse of power they already have and double down next time. But hey you got the short win

This post has been edited by Squirrel: 02 June 2019 - 07:37 PM

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#37 User is offline   BerkeleyUnderground 

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 07:49 PM

View PostSquirrel, on 02 June 2019 - 07:34 PM, said:

But hey you got the short win


So goodbye country!

And why do you think we have all the time in the world to dally with this problem?
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#38 User is online   Squirrel 

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 07:56 PM

View PostBerkeleyUnderground, on 02 June 2019 - 07:49 PM, said:

So goodbye country!

And why do you think we have all the time in the world to dally with this problem?

So you wonít answer the question of is it ok for the next socialist democrat to rule by the pen and F the law? No I think it is a big issue and large problem. But this is not the solution. Now answer my question. Was it ok for Obama to rule with pen and phone? Will it be ok for the next democrat? Sounds like you want to live in medieval times with a king dictating as long as itís your king. I answered your question now answer mine. Supporting this is as smart as when Harry Reid decider the nicest option is as good. But by all means explain why you love a dictatorship? Thatís what you are advocating and supporting are you the new ď socialist Republican Party repĒ. You also havenít explained why Mexicans are crainly challenged or how ever you stated it and why saying thatís not racist. But hey a racist doesnít always do well with words. Iím really interested in that since my kids 1/4 Mexican, maybe he should be deported according to you. Or should he be ied out of college and put in special ed? I really need to know Iím not wasting money on his school. See when you went racist no other opinion you have matters to me. Especially when you wonít answer simple questions. Will it be ok when the next democrat rules out side the constitution, if not why is this ok?

This post has been edited by Squirrel: 02 June 2019 - 08:02 PM

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#39 User is offline   BerkeleyUnderground 

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 07:59 PM

View PostSquirrel, on 02 June 2019 - 07:56 PM, said:

So you won't answer the question


Goodbye!
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#40 User is online   Squirrel 

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 08:06 PM

View PostBerkeleyUnderground, on 02 June 2019 - 07:59 PM, said:

Goodbye!

Lol bye racist as normal a person that runs when facts are hard and they canít defend what they said. Maybe you should get with that kid that ran to the 3rd world country to avoid his student loans in the other thread. It seems a dictatorship is your dream country.
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