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#21 User is offline   DJGoody 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 11:48 AM

.....but do they have good food?
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#22 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 11:52 AM

View PostLadybird, on 15 May 2019 - 10:44 AM, said:

Your link mentioned an Islamist Ďtraining campí in Islamburg, aka Hancock, NY. This place may very well have guys in clamflouge with guns, but it also has families. It is a community that has women and children that have been threatened by right wing fanatics, fed by online conspiracy theorists.

https://www.reuters....g-idUSKBN15V2SC
https://www.nytimes....-community.html
https://www.thedaily...2b606bdabe.html

Why should these people not be able to protect themselves?

Are you saying there are no Christian militia groups in this country?



Yet again you can't even answer a simple question. Since when does self defense training resemble para military training and tactics? Guess who trains in that fashion?
Hired Security(to some extent)
Police(to some extent)
Militaries



and who else? That's right extremist groups such as terrorists, AND YES even White Supremacist groups.

By the way, the link I posted shows how no one was or has taken Islamic Terrorist training camps seriously, not any one location in particular. You asked who was not downplaying or calling reports of Islamic Terrorist Training camps in the U.S. false.



Oki
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#23 User is offline   mjperry51 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 12:04 PM

View PostLadybird, on 15 May 2019 - 10:44 AM, said:

Your link mentioned an Islamist 'training camp' in Islamburg, aka Hancock, NY. This place may very well have guys in clamflouge with guns, but it also has families. It is a community that has women and children that have been threatened by right wing fanatics, fed by online conspiracy theorists.

https://www.reuters....g-idUSKBN15V2SC
https://www.nytimes....-community.html
https://www.thedaily...2b606bdabe.html

Why should these people not be able to protect themselves?

Are you saying there are no Christian militia groups in this country?


How many of those Christian militias have flown jetliners into skyscrapers and killed 3,000 people??
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#24 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 12:47 PM

View Postoki, on 15 May 2019 - 11:52 AM, said:

Yet again you can't even answer a simple question. Since when does self defense training resemble para military training and tactics? Guess who trains in that fashion?
Hired Security(to some extent)
Police(to some extent)
Militaries



and who else? That's right extremist groups such as terrorists, AND YES even White Supremacist groups.

By the way, the link I posted shows how no one was or has taken Islamic Terrorist training camps seriously, not any one location in particular. You asked who was not downplaying or calling reports of Islamic Terrorist Training camps in the U.S. false.



Oki


And communities trying to protect themselves from armed crazies and bombers.
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#25 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 01:13 PM

View PostLadybird, on 15 May 2019 - 12:47 PM, said:

And communities trying to protect themselves from armed crazies and bombers.



Do you not understand that it's not the type of training which is done for self defense? IT IS THE TYPE OF TRAINING DONE WHEN YOU PLAN ON ATTACKING SOMEONE!!!

Self defense is meant to neutralize a threat should it appear, or buy you time.
This type is meant to attack a group, individuals, an installation/location, or attack as a group.
Do you know why you will never hear the term 'cover me' during any kind of self defense training? Because it is asking some to provide suppression/cover fire so you can advance or find a better position to fire from. Does that sound like self defense to you? Being able to advance on a single or multiple targets, storm a building, or such?

Self defense training is basic marksmanship and how to react IF YOU ARE IN FACT ATTACKED!
Self defense training is typically reactionary. Laying on the ground, crawling, engaging targets with a single or multiple partners while you advance is not self defense training. That is military type in how to attack a target!.

Learn the difference. If all they where doing was shooting at targets on a private range we wouldn't be having this discussion, obstacle coarse's, targets, concertina wire, maybe even a bunker by themselves may be nothing, but together they are typically a sign.

Oki
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#26 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 01:21 PM

View Postmjperry51, on 15 May 2019 - 12:04 PM, said:

How many of those Christian militias have flown jetliners into skyscrapers and killed 3,000 people??



Thing is the rank and file Christians by in large hate and keep this so called Christian Militias in check. That's why they build there little compounds, because they are not accepted by the Christians or any church as a whole. And, that's why by in large they aren't much of a problem other then every know and again some pos does something. Can the same be said of Islamic extremism? If the moderate Muslims where keeping them in check we wouldn't be having these problems. We wouldn't have no go zones in numerous large cities, honor killings, demands to change law and even our society to their liking. When was the last time you heard about a Christian living in Japan demanding much of anything, much less getting it? IE even Christmas being a paid Holiday.
Or, when was the last time you heard of a Japanese person living in the U.S. making the same demands of Obon(kinda' a day of the dead remembrance practiced by many Japanese)?

Very telling that one religion in particular seems to have the overwhelming bulk of these problems.
Live how you want, worship how you want, etc. BUT, when you start making demands that WE change to suit your likeing or your beliefs, especially when no one else has a problem, well then we have a problem.

Oki



Oki
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#27 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 01:24 PM

View Postoki, on 15 May 2019 - 01:13 PM, said:

Do you not understand that it's not the type of training which is done for self defense? IT IS THE TYPE OF TRAINING DONE WHEN YOU PLAN ON ATTACKING SOMEONE!!!

Self defense is meant to neutralize a threat should it appear, or buy you time.
This type is meant to attack a group, individuals, an installation/location, or attack as a group.
Do you know why you will never hear the term 'cover me' during any kind of self defense training? Because it is asking some to provide suppression/cover fire so you can advance or find a better position to fire from. Does that sound like self defense to you? Being able to advance on a single or multiple targets, storm a building, or such?

Self defense training is basic marksmanship and how to react IF YOU ARE IN FACT ATTACKED!
Self defense training is typically reactionary. Laying on the ground, crawling, engaging targets with a single or multiple partners while you advance is not self defense training. That is military type in how to attack a target!.

Learn the difference. If all they where doing was shooting at targets on a private range we wouldn't be having this discussion, obstacle coarse's, targets, concertina wire, maybe even a bunker by themselves may be nothing, but together they are typically a sign.

Oki


The video of Islamburg in your link showed women with weapons marching. Thatís it.

I have no doubt there are jihadists lurking and training for nefarious purposes in the US, however not every group that is arming themselves and preparing for a violent attack belongs in that category.

This post has been edited by Ladybird: 15 May 2019 - 01:41 PM

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#28 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 02:39 PM

View PostLadybird, on 15 May 2019 - 01:24 PM, said:

The video of Islamburg in your link showed women with weapons marching. Thatís it.

I have no doubt there are jihadists lurking and training for nefarious purposes in the US, however not every group that is arming themselves and preparing for a violent attack belongs in that category.



YET AGAIN, you asked for proof of people denying that the training camps exist and how those who spoke of it where ridiculed and not taken seriously. THAT'S WHAT THE LINK IS ABOUT!!!!!

Tell ya' what, tell me what aspect of self defense involves marching around with firearms?
I have already explained the differences between self defense training and training an organized Military OR terrorist group would do. BUt not one peep from you about that part.

https://www.youtube....h?v=xO2YwweYcGY
Here is another video, the same people who just a few years ago where ridiculed and denounced.


https://www.youtube....h?v=mMhmvozQK_E
THIS IS NOT SELF DEFENSE TRAINING!!!! THIS IS PARAMILITARY TRAINING SUNSHINE!
By the way, a number of the 'weapons' where wooden training 'dummy guns'.
The purpose of this is to get people used to carrying weapons as a group, in formation, to build A MILITARY TYPE UNIT, and function as a group. How about the 3 minute mark? Is repelling part of self defense? How about 3:39? Sure doesn't look like any self defense training I have ever seen. Oh, I know where I have seen that before, Basic Training... Fort Sill fall of 92'.
Slitting someones throat from behind is a cornerstone of self defense all right. That part at 3:35 of carrying an AK and a long gun through the woods sure looked liked self defense training to me. Or the parts where the woman where in a single file line with rifles walking through the woods had all the hall marks of self defense training and not conditioning training that a terrorist group would receive.

Do tell, does that video look like simple self defense training? Looks a lot like terrorist training to me, or at the least no different than what any other extremist group would do.


Oki
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#29 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 03:03 PM

The reports in that link had cast doubt in some of the hysterical reports in the right wing media of Isis training camps that turned out to exaggerated or outright false. They didnít say that any kind of terror cell is non existent.


I forgot about this moment from candidate Trump. Thanks for the reminder..
https://www.vox.com/...ims-obama-rally
What a worm.

This post has been edited by Ladybird: 15 May 2019 - 03:24 PM

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#30 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 03:57 PM

View PostLadybird, on 15 May 2019 - 03:03 PM, said:

The reports in that link had cast doubt in some of the hysterical reports in the right wing media of Isis training camps that turned out to exaggerated or outright false. They didnít say that any kind of terror cell is non existent.


I forgot about this moment from candidate Trump. Thanks for the reminder..
https://www.vox.com/...ims-obama-rally
What a worm.



NIce try, this isn't about Trump. It's about your assertion that people who pointed out camps INCLUDING ISLAMBERG being a training center where all exaggerating, lying, Islamophobic. Care to discuss the very video you said only showed woman marching with rifles?
Guess not, because the video clearly shows those woman ARE NOT DOING self defense.
Self defense does not involve slitting someones throat from behind after disarming them, it does not involve repelling, it does not involve marching in formation like a Military Unit, it does not involve a straight line or flying V type formation going through the woods, a single file line in the woods, or anything of the like.

And before you try and tell me that video could have been filmed anywhere, notice the old yellow car, single wide mobile home/trailer, and camper? That old car looks like a mid 70's Mercury Marquis, both trailers are common in the U.S. What are the chances of any of those much less ALL OF THEM being found any where other the U.S.? Canada MAYBE, BUT, last I checked it ain't exactly legal to own a standard AK or AR-15 in Canada! Go ahead, tell us that the video shows woman who are simply training for self defense. Quality on the video is not good, but, there is no question this was filmed here in the U.S. From the weapons they had, the vehicle, the camper the trailer. AND, LIKE I SAID THIS IS NOT A SELF DEFENSE VIDEO.


Oki
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#31 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 04:04 PM

By the way...

https://www.washingt...lebrate-911-co/

A police officer who worked on 9/11 and residents on the outskirts of Jersey Cityís Journal Square said they witnessed small pockets of people celebrating before the groups dispersed or were broken up by authorities, according to a new report by NJ.com.

Peter Gallagher, a retired police captain who was a sergeant on 9/11, said he cleared a rooftop celebration of 20 to 30 people at 6 Tonnele Avenue in the wake of the attack.

Orange Man Bad, ORANGE MAN LIE, ORANGE MAN RACIST.. don't let facts get in the way of a good narrative right?

Oki
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#32 User is offline   RibeyeSteak 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 04:15 PM

View PostDJGoody, on 15 May 2019 - 11:48 AM, said:

.....but do they have good food?


And do they drink an occasional beer?
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#33 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 05:12 PM

View Postoki, on 15 May 2019 - 04:04 PM, said:

By the way...

https://www.washingt...lebrate-911-co/

A police officer who worked on 9/11 and residents on the outskirts of Jersey Cityís Journal Square said they witnessed small pockets of people celebrating before the groups dispersed or were broken up by authorities, according to a new report by NJ.com.

Peter Gallagher, a retired police captain who was a sergeant on 9/11, said he cleared a rooftop celebration of 20 to 30 people at 6 Tonnele Avenue in the wake of the attack.

Orange Man Bad, ORANGE MAN LIE, ORANGE MAN RACIST.. don't let facts get in the way of a good narrative right?

Oki

THANK YOU OKI!!!

I AM SOOOOOOO EXONERATED!!!

Almost nobody, and I mean very nearly nobody, would have my back even here on RN. Even RRRW didnít support me! I was the extreme conspiracist who thought ďPalestine was New JerseyĒ.

Thank you.

This post has been edited by zurg: 15 May 2019 - 05:12 PM

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#34 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 05:36 PM

View Postoki, on 15 May 2019 - 04:04 PM, said:

By the way...

https://www.washingt...lebrate-911-co/

A police officer who worked on 9/11 and residents on the outskirts of Jersey City’s Journal Square said they witnessed small pockets of people celebrating before the groups dispersed or were broken up by authorities, according to a new report by NJ.com.

Peter Gallagher, a retired police captain who was a sergeant on 9/11, said he cleared a rooftop celebration of 20 to 30 people at 6 Tonnele Avenue in the wake of the attack.

Orange Man Bad, ORANGE MAN LIE, ORANGE MAN RACIST.. don't let facts get in the way of a good narrative right?

Oki


Trump:
"Hey, I watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down. And I watched in Jersey City, New Jersey, where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were cheering. So something’s going on. We’ve got to find out what it is."
https://www.factchec...ised-911-claim/


I understand that he can do no wrong to the Trumpkins, but he straight up lied. That it's about people you don't care for doesn't make his lies true.

This post has been edited by Ladybird: 15 May 2019 - 05:46 PM

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#35 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 05:51 PM

View PostLadybird, on 15 May 2019 - 05:36 PM, said:

Trump:
"Hey, I watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down. And I watched in Jersey City, New Jersey, where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were cheering. So somethingís going on. Weíve got to find out what it is."
https://www.factchec...ised-911-claim/


I understand that he can do no wrong to the Trumpkins, but he straight up lied. That it's about people you don't care for doesn't make his lies true.

And I said in our previous arguments that there were maybe a few tens.... seems like my memory was spot on! Thanks for acknowledging it. (Yeah right.)

So letís see. Trump claimed thousands. Letís say his number was 3000. And letís say all together there were 50-100 celebrants. So he was wrong by a factor of 30-60. I was dead nuts on. And you said there were zero. So you were wrong by a ratio of infinity.

You lose, no doubt.

ETA: Iím really enjoying this moment, in case you canít tell.

This post has been edited by zurg: 15 May 2019 - 05:51 PM

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#36 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 05:53 PM

View Postzurg, on 15 May 2019 - 05:51 PM, said:

And I said in our previous arguments that there were maybe a few tens.... seems like my memory was spot on! Thanks for acknowledging it. (Yeah right.)

So let’s see. Trump claimed thousands. Let’s say his number was 3000. And let’s say all together there were 50-100 celebrants. So he was wrong by a factor of 30-60. I was dead nuts on. And you said there were zero. So you were wrong by a ratio of infinity.

You lose, no doubt.

ETA: I’m really enjoying this moment, in case you can’t tell.


He claimed to have seen this on TV (he certainly wasn't standing on a rooftop in Jersey). No one else did. Why?

Thousands and thousands.
This president visiting our troops and lying to their faces was met approval and shrugs by conservatives. There's not much that he can do, including shooting someone on 5th avenue that will shake their faith.

This post has been edited by Ladybird: 15 May 2019 - 06:00 PM

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#37 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 11:01 PM

View PostLadybird, on 15 May 2019 - 05:53 PM, said:

He claimed to have seen this on TV (he certainly wasn't standing on a rooftop in Jersey). No one else did. Why?

Thousands and thousands.
This president visiting our troops and lying to their faces was met approval and shrugs by conservatives. There's not much that he can do, including shooting someone on 5th avenue that will shake their faith.

:yawn:

Technicalities. The point is: it happened. You said it didnít. Hereís proof that IT DID. Iím very much enjoying being right on this one.

BTW, itís a significant finding. There are at least some Muslim communities in this country that celebrated 9-11.

Why would I trust the other Muslim communities here then? Thatís the point.
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#38 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 12:48 AM

View Postzurg, on 15 May 2019 - 11:01 PM, said:

:yawn:

Technicalities. The point is: it happened. You said it didnít. Hereís proof that IT DID. Iím very much enjoying being right on this one.

BTW, itís a significant finding. There are at least some Muslim communities in this country that celebrated 9-11.

Why would I trust the other Muslim communities here then? Thatís the point.


No. he said he witnessed thousands and thousands people cheering in New Jersey. That did not happen and he did not see it. No matter how much you Trumpkins want his lies to be true, that doesn't make them true.

20 people on a roof is not "a community", but go ahead with the blanket condemnation and support of discrimination.
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#39 User is online   JerryL 

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 01:39 AM

View PostLadybird, on 16 May 2019 - 12:48 AM, said:

No. he said he witnessed thousands and thousands people cheering in New Jersey. That did not happen and he did not see it. No matter how much you Trumpkins want his lies to be true, that doesn't make them true.

20 people on a roof is not "a community", but go ahead with the blanket condemnation and support of discrimination.

You seriously need to get a life. A politician exaggerated (or flat out lied) in a political speech. Where is "surprised cat?" This must be the first time in all of history that that has happened. :sarcasm:

Conservatives want to kill grandma.
Conservatives hate gays.
Conservatives are all racist.
Conservatives are all misogynist.
Conservatives want to enslave black people.

All of those have been used, and are being used, by leftist politicians. All of them are lies. You sat there and didn't say a word during the 8 years that Obama lied incessantly...and lied about stuff that actually mattered like health care and why our people were killed in Benghazi.

Please quit bringing up this example in some lame attempt to pretend that the truth suddenly matters to you. We know better.

This post has been edited by JerryL: 16 May 2019 - 01:40 AM

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#40 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 09:35 AM

View Postzurg, on 15 May 2019 - 05:12 PM, said:

THANK YOU OKI!!!

I AM SOOOOOOO EXONERATED!!!

Almost nobody, and I mean very nearly nobody, would have my back even here on RN. Even RRRW didnít support me! I was the extreme conspiracist who thought ďPalestine was New JerseyĒ.

Thank you.


I had heard the Muslims where dancing in New Jersey LONG before Trump ever said it. But, only viewed as a very likely rumor.
Yesterday it took me a grand total of about 60 seconds to find the info I posted. Thousands in New Jersey? Wouldn't seem like it.
BUT, if one cop busted up a group of 30 on a roof top it is damn likely there where many many more. Especially considering the fact that numerous other people reported celebrations. Plus, from a distance or even fairly close it wouldn't be a stretch to mistake a couple hundred people for a thousand or more.

Oki
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