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#41 User is offline   Howsithangin 

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 12:08 AM

View PostTicked@TinselTown, on 12 November 2019 - 01:15 PM, said:

People who don't share the basic values of being an American should find another country to live in that aligns with their values and life goals.

They should also take their anti-American prejudices WITH them when they go.


Exactly

This post has been edited by Howsithangin: 13 November 2019 - 12:18 AM

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#42 User is offline   Howsithangin 

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 12:14 AM

View PostLadybird, on 12 November 2019 - 12:01 PM, said:

People who don’t share your values and your prejudices are as American as you and everyone else born or naturalized here.


Yeah, I'm kinda like that: I am prejudiced against globalists, Marxists, fascists, illegal alien welfare legions and race-pimps (to say nothing about the pedophiles and outright mental freaks) that actively engage to tear at the foundations of the Nation and work to weaken it so as to foster its replacement by a global elite socialist world ruled by the EU/UN.

I realize that they're your fellow Party members, but they still suck ass and a healthy number deserve to be called traitors and brought up on sedition charges. Now I know I just triggered your pearl-clutching reflex, but let's put it in this way: what they do we Americans consider Hate Speech, which is a mortal sin to The Left yes? And since 'hate crimes' are so wonderfully subjective things (your side has established that), it's therefore a justifiable opinion :)

PS And they're not just "my" values. Hard work, self-reliance, small government (etc) are the founding principles of the nation; they define it, what set us apart, and what made us the most benevolent world power in global history, a historical force for good* that the world will miss if the Party of degenerates, globalist money grubbers, lepers and parasites succeed.

*spare us the inevitable, predictable, slavery reference, if you please. It's a universal tragedy since time in-memorium. No one is guiltless

This post has been edited by Howsithangin: 13 November 2019 - 01:29 AM

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#43 User is offline   Howsithangin 

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 12:25 AM

View PostTimothy, on 12 November 2019 - 05:20 PM, said:


one TV spot about a single city hardly proves anything


View PostTimothy, on 12 November 2019 - 05:20 PM, said:

And a very similar article about Austin:

https://www.kvue.com...5c-c95b32bc5ec6

I don't believe I ever mentioned Texas. I have no knowledge of Texas. I mentioned 4 other states, so this is irrelevant to our discussion.



View PostTimothy, on 12 November 2019 - 05:20 PM, said:

If immigration were all about adopting the local culture wholesale there'd be a lot more Americans living in teepees.


There it is, the dumbest thing I'll read today.

It certainly has been a banner week for silly RN leftist quotes

This post has been edited by Howsithangin: 13 November 2019 - 01:29 AM

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#44 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 01:40 AM

View PostTimothy, on 12 November 2019 - 05:20 PM, said:

Crime has been going down in Seattle: https://www.seattlet...he-80s-and-90s/

But I agree on the expensive part, they have the same NIMBY problems as a lot of places.


The link won't allow me to read the article because of my "ad blockers". So I can't respond in detail to their specific assertions about crime "going down" in Seattle. But I have hunches. For example, crime that used to be concentrated in the downtown area might just be spreading out to the suburbs. My mother, for example, lives in a north Seattle suburb ("Richmond Highlands") that used to be a very nice neighborhood full of nice houses, well-kept lawns, well-to-do people, etc. Not a "rich" neighborhood by any means, but a clean friendly one.

Lately she has confided to me that she's afraid to leave her apartment, especially after dark. Homeless people and panhandlers, gangbangers hanging around street corners in bunches, assaults and robberies and rapes, etc. Remember, this is not part of Seattle proper; it's not inside the city limits. It's a suburb several miles north of the northern Seattle city limit. Therefore any crime there doesn't show up on Seattle's official crime logs/tallies. As I said, I couldn't read the article so I don't know what claims they made or what statistics they used or anything like that. But I wouldn't be surprised if my hunch about crime merely "spreading" out into the suburbs was close to the mark.

I am in Seattle several times each year - Sometimes for family things, sometimes for club things, sometimes just to visit friends, sometimes for sports events and so forth. I can't deny what I see with my own eyes. Seattle has definitely gone way downhill over recent decades, mostly at the very same pace that the Democrat/left has taken over its government.

B)
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#45 User is offline   JerryL 

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 03:09 AM

View PostTimothy, on 12 November 2019 - 05:20 PM, said:

It's funny how some conservatives are very "big government" on this issue because they think it benefits their preferred lifestyle. You seem to prefer a more suburban lifestyle so you want to see it mandated on everyone. And when others argue for simply ALLOWING more urban areas to exist that are mostly multifamily, you make all sorts of arguments about how people don't want it.

If people don't want it the market won't build it. And in other cases people may 'want' a low density single family house, in the sense that most people might 'want' a Cadillac, but the trade-offs ($, commute time, etc.) aren't worth it to them..

I in no way want the federal government involved in this. If the local citizens who vote and pay taxes don’t want a bunch of high density housing built then they have every right to use the local government to block it as you do to try and promote it.

Who are you to decide what trade offs are good for others? Who are you to force all of the issues that come with high density “affordable housing” on people who don’t want it?

As for my preferences, I live in the center of Paris. Before that I lived in Crystal City in Arlington, VA. Before that in the center of Dakar, Senegal. Very “suburban” those places...not.

Finally, none of what you have said anywhere counters that people fleeing Cali and driving up home prices and property taxes aren’t doing it by buying high density apartments. The article is about Boise, Idaho. Not Austin, Texas. Maybe...just maybe...you have no idea what you are talking about.
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#46 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 10:22 AM

The underlying problem is that sh$Tholes don't happen by accident, they are this way because of culture, beliefs, practices and in particular voting practices. When people leave one crap hole and move they often take with them the very beliefs, practices, and voting patterns which cause the problem in the first place and do the exact same thing in a area. One or two of these types not much changes, get an entire hoard or large enough group and over time it recreates the exact same problems. This has played out numerous times through out the U.S. Both in regards to Americans moving from one area to another as well as Immigrants coming in.
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#47 User is offline   Severian 

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 10:41 AM

View PostMontyPython, on 13 November 2019 - 01:40 AM, said:

The link won't allow me to read the article because of my "ad blockers". So I can't respond in detail to their specific assertions about crime "going down" in Seattle. But I have hunches. For example, crime that used to be concentrated in the downtown area might just be spreading out to the suburbs. My mother, for example, lives in a north Seattle suburb ("Richmond Highlands") that used to be a very nice neighborhood full of nice houses, well-kept lawns, well-to-do people, etc. Not a "rich" neighborhood by any means, but a clean friendly one.

Lately she has confided to me that she's afraid to leave her apartment, especially after dark. Homeless people and panhandlers, gangbangers hanging around street corners in bunches, assaults and robberies and rapes, etc. Remember, this is not part of Seattle proper; it's not inside the city limits. It's a suburb several miles north of the northern Seattle city limit. Therefore any crime there doesn't show up on Seattle's official crime logs/tallies. As I said, I couldn't read the article so I don't know what claims they made or what statistics they used or anything like that. But I wouldn't be surprised if my hunch about crime merely "spreading" out into the suburbs was close to the mark.

I am in Seattle several times each year - Sometimes for family things, sometimes for club things, sometimes just to visit friends, sometimes for sports events and so forth. I can't deny what I see with my own eyes. Seattle has definitely gone way downhill over recent decades, mostly at the very same pace that the Democrat/left has taken over its government.

B)

It's easy Monty, just change what you call "crime." Minor assaults by homeless, property crimes under a certain amount, are just civil infractions not crimes, if even that! Voila! No more crime!!! Just look at how well it's working in San Francisco! Derp.
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#48 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 01:19 PM

View PostSeverian, on 13 November 2019 - 10:41 AM, said:

It's easy Monty, just change what you call "crime." Minor assaults by homeless, property crimes under a certain amount, are just civil infractions not crimes, if even that! Voila! No more crime!!! Just look at how well it's working in San Francisco! Derp.


Yup, LOL, good point.

:yes:
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#49 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 03:50 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 13 November 2019 - 01:40 AM, said:

The link won't allow me to read the article because of my "ad blockers". So I can't respond in detail to their specific assertions about crime "going down" in Seattle. But I have hunches. For example, crime that used to be concentrated in the downtown area might just be spreading out to the suburbs. My mother, for example, lives in a north Seattle suburb ("Richmond Highlands") that used to be a very nice neighborhood full of nice houses, well-kept lawns, well-to-do people, etc. Not a "rich" neighborhood by any means, but a clean friendly one...


Their graph starts in '85, peaks in '90, so all they're really saying is that crime is down RELATIVE TO the city at its worst; the equivalent of saying "this turd doesn't stink NEAR as much as it used to." LOL.

I had an engineering project in Spokane in the mid '90s. With a free weekend, I really want to drive to Seattle. Just because. To a person, EVERYONE on the project that knew Seattle warned me against it. To this day, I have driven through the Seattle area at least a dozen times on I-5 but have never bothered to stop.

Crime may "down" relative to Seattle at it's worst, but still "high" relative to the national average. Especially property crimes (Auto Theft, Burglary, etc) which are OVER 2X the national average; Violent crimes are ALMOST 2X the national average:

Crime rates per 100,000 people per areavibes.com:

BURGLARY:
Seattle= 1,082 National=430
AUTO THEFT: Seattle= 503 National= 237
THEFT: Seattle= 3,673 National= 1,694
ROBBERY: Seattle= 210 National= 94
ASSAULT: Seattle= 382 National= 248
TOTAL VIOLENT CRIME: Seattle= 633 National = 383

On the other hand, the MURDER rate is unusually low:

MURDER: Seattle= 3.7 National= 5.3. Compare to Atlanta at 20.2 or Detroit at 45.3.

So while you're likely to get mugged, raped, kidnapped, beaten up, and have your car stolen in Seattle, at least you'll live to tell about it. So, there's that. :lol:

This post has been edited by Dean Adam Smithee: 13 November 2019 - 03:53 PM

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#50 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 04:01 PM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 13 November 2019 - 03:50 PM, said:

Their graph starts in '85, peaks in '90, so all they're really saying is that crime is down RELATIVE TO the city at its worst; the equivalent of saying "this turd doesn't stink NEAR as much as it used to." LOL.

I had an engineering project in Spokane in the mid '90s. With a free weekend, I really want to drive to Seattle. Just because. To a person, EVERYONE on the project that knew Seattle warned me against it. To this day, I have driven through the Seattle area at least a dozen times on I-5 but have never bothered to stop.

Crime may "down" relative to Seattle at it's worst, but still "high" relative to the national average. Especially property crimes (Auto Theft, Burglary, etc) which are OVER 2X the national average; Violent crimes are ALMOST 2X the national average:

Crime rates per 100,000 people per areavibes.com:

BURGLARY:
Seattle= 1,082 National=430
AUTO THEFT: Seattle= 503 National= 237
THEFT: Seattle= 3,673 National= 1,694
ROBBERY: Seattle= 210 National= 94
ASSAULT: Seattle= 382 National= 248
TOTAL VIOLENT CRIME: Seattle= 633 National = 383

On the other hand, the MURDER rate is unusually low:

MURDER: Seattle= 3.7 National= 5.3. Compare to Atlanta at 20.2 or Detroit at 45.3.

So while you're likely to get mugged, raped, kidnapped, beaten up, and have your car stolen in Seattle, at least you'll live to tell about it. So, there's that. :lol:


Funny....

Milwaukee used to actually be pretty safe many moons ago to, then it started getting lots of 'Chicago refugees'.


Although this compares Milwaukee to Detroit it does also do a national comparison as well explain the Detroit is larger.

http://www.newyork.a...Milwaukee&s2=WI

Detroit, MI Milwaukee, WI National

Murder: 47.3 17.7 7
Forcible Rape: 67.05 19.28 32.2
Robbery: 818.6 621 205.8
Aggravated Assault: 1486 666.9 336.5
Burglary: 2050.3 972.6 813.2
Larceny Theft: 2406.8 4189.8 2601.7
Vehicle Theft: 2591.1 1418.1 501.5

This post has been edited by oki: 13 November 2019 - 04:03 PM

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#51 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 04:25 PM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 13 November 2019 - 03:50 PM, said:

Their graph starts in '85, peaks in '90, so all they're really saying is that crime is down RELATIVE TO the city at its worst; the equivalent of saying "this turd doesn't stink NEAR as much as it used to." LOL.

I had an engineering project in Spokane in the mid '90s. With a free weekend, I really want to drive to Seattle. Just because. To a person, EVERYONE on the project that knew Seattle warned me against it. To this day, I have driven through the Seattle area at least a dozen times on I-5 but have never bothered to stop.

Crime may "down" relative to Seattle at it's worst, but still "high" relative to the national average. Especially property crimes (Auto Theft, Burglary, etc) which are OVER 2X the national average; Violent crimes are ALMOST 2X the national average:

Crime rates per 100,000 people per areavibes.com:

BURGLARY:
Seattle= 1,082 National=430
AUTO THEFT: Seattle= 503 National= 237
THEFT: Seattle= 3,673 National= 1,694
ROBBERY: Seattle= 210 National= 94
ASSAULT: Seattle= 382 National= 248
TOTAL VIOLENT CRIME: Seattle= 633 National = 383

On the other hand, the MURDER rate is unusually low:

MURDER: Seattle= 3.7 National= 5.3. Compare to Atlanta at 20.2 or Detroit at 45.3.

So while you're likely to get mugged, raped, kidnapped, beaten up, and have your car stolen in Seattle, at least you'll live to tell about it. So, there's that. :lol:


Yup. People who might quibble over a few years' stats here or a few years' stats there are fine. Push them statistics! Woohoo!

Meanwhile I lived in Seattle from 1958 (3 yrs old) through 2000 (45 yrs old). Then I moved to Blaine but still go to Seattle regularly and have plenty of family & friends who still live there. Anybody who wants to "correct" me about what's going on in Seattle can expect a penirectopupiloptomy (where you get f****d in the @$$ so hard your eyes pop out.)

"Stats"? Fine. "Articles"? Fine. But live there for 42 years, then get back to me if you want an accurate assessment.

<_<
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#52 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 07:54 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 13 November 2019 - 04:25 PM, said:

Yup. People who might quibble over a few years' stats here or a few years' stats there are fine. Push them statistics! Woohoo!

Meanwhile I lived in Seattle from 1958 (3 yrs old) through 2000 (45 yrs old). Then I moved to Blaine but still go to Seattle regularly and have plenty of family & friends who still live there. Anybody who wants to "correct" me about what's going on in Seattle can expect a penirectopupiloptomy (where you get f****d in the @$$ so hard your eyes pop out.)

"Stats"? Fine. "Articles"? Fine. But live there for 42 years, then get back to me if you want an accurate assessment.

<_<


So would it be accurate to say that mid-80s to early 90s was the "Worst" of Seattle? And is it at least marginally better (per the stats) now?
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#53 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 08:29 AM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 13 November 2019 - 07:54 PM, said:

So would it be accurate to say that mid-80s to early 90s was the "Worst" of Seattle? And is it at least marginally better (per the stats) now?


Well 80s-90s was definitely the period when the slow walk to hell turned into a runaway stampede. But I can't honestly pretend it has gotten noticeably better since then.

B)
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