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Trump's tax dodges look more serious than Whitewater Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 09:23 AM

Trump's tax dodges look more serious than Whitewater
October 16, 2019 06:26 PM


Conservatives who spent years investigating and criticizing the Clinton family business dealings known as “Whitewater” and Hillary Clinton’s cattle futures scam ought to be equally outraged by President Trump’s obviously sketchy tax dodges.

In terms of the money involved, Trump’s dealings, as outlined today by ProPublica, are much worse than the Clintons’ pre-presidential self-dealing. Yet soon, if recent past is prologue, we will surely hear either silence from the Clintons’ strongest critics, or worse, some fevered attempts to explain away the tax dodginess as business-as-usual.

The basic outline is simple. With regard to two of Trump’s major real-estate investments, the “art of the deal” involved filing financial reports with lenders and with tax authorities that were radically different from each other. The discrepancies regularly involved hundreds of thousands of dollars. On insurance alone on one building, for example, the publication reported that “costs in 2017 were listed as $744,521 in tax documents and $457,414 in loan records.”

To quote ProPublica:

“A dozen real estate professionals told ProPublica they saw no clear explanation for multiple inconsistencies in the documents. The discrepancies are ‘versions of fraud,’ said Nancy Wallace, a professor of finance and real estate at the Haas School of Business at the University of California-Berkeley. ‘This kind of stuff is not OK.’ … The punishments for lying to tax officials, or to lenders, can be significant, ranging from fines to criminal fraud charges. Two former Trump associates, Michael Cohen and Paul Manafort, are serving prison time for offenses that include falsifying tax and bank records, some of them related to real estate.”

For another example, “Trump’s company told New York City tax officials it made about $822,000 renting space to commercial tenants there in 2017, records show. The company told loan officials it took in $1.67 million that year — more than twice as much.”

These are not differences involving tiny percentages or explainable accounting errors. These are immense disparities. Moreover, each individual variance played in Trump’s favor. If they were random errors, surely some of the errors would disfavor the billionaire. But, no, not here. There is no reasonable way to assert there was no intentionality involved here, and deceitful intentionality, at that.

Unless there is a really, really convincing explanation for this, it is easily as investigatable as Whitewater was, and, unlike the convoluted Whitewater dealings in which the Clintons were secondary investors, there is almost no way that Trump can pawn off responsibility to others.

<snip>

Link
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#2 User is offline   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 09:33 AM

:biglaugh:

It's a <censored>ing opinion piece with no <censored>ing evidence of any of Trump's taxes and Trump was not even president yet nor an elected government official, unlike the Clintons who were living in the governor's mansion in Arkansas.

Trump has had not been running any of his own businesses since he took the oath of office.

You're and your like minded proggy dems fools are REALLY scraping the bottom of the barrel so much that you have no fingernails left! :lol:

I knew who had posted this crap before I even clicked on it! :D

This post has been edited by Rock N' Roll Right Winger: 17 October 2019 - 09:44 AM

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#3 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:09 AM

Really? Lets look at ever Representative that wants to expose Trumps taxes, do you believe Pelosi or Schumer's taxes can survive an audit? Additionally this is stuff BEFORE he was POTUS, and you cannot charge him under his time as POTUS for actions before. So talk to the IRS and let them assess the 20,000 dollar penalty like they did to Democrats and move on dot org.

Oh and it's illegal to release tax information on people, are you concerned about the illegal release of information? Or is it only a concern of yours when a Democrat is released. What happens when Biden's (daddy and son) tax returns see the light of day and show quid pro quo for their actions in China and Ukraine? Then what will you say?

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#4 User is offline   MTP Reggie 

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:17 AM

Let's see...

Quote

The discrepancies made the buildings appear more profitable to the lender — and less profitable to the officials who set the buildings’ property tax.


This describes my place and every other property on the planet. The tax-assessed value of my primary property is 75% of its market value. It's like this everywhere because tax values lag behind market values. At some point such as during a market downturn, it's entirely possible and even likely that my primary property's tax-assessed value will be greater than its market value.

:yawn:
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#5 User is offline   Natural Selection 

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:21 AM

View PostLadybird, on 17 October 2019 - 09:23 AM, said:

Trump's tax dodges look more serious than Whitewater


Who did Trump cheat? The IRS? They would be all over him if he did. :nuts:

Did he use the power of his position to force lenders to lend him money? :rofl:

Is this supposed to be the next anti-Trump lie after the impeachment scam crashes and burns?
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#6 User is offline   Severian 

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:32 AM

Then he should suffer the same penalty the Clintons did, which is, err, nothing!
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#7 User is offline   Natural Selection 

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:37 AM

View PostSeverian, on 17 October 2019 - 10:32 AM, said:

Then he should suffer the same penalty the Clintons did, which is, err, nothing!


"No reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case"

:lol:
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#8 User is offline   corporal_little 

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:54 AM

View PostNatural Selection, on 17 October 2019 - 10:21 AM, said:

Who did Trump cheat? The IRS? They would be all over him if he did. :nuts:

Did he use the power of his position to force lenders to lend him money? :rofl:

Is this supposed to be the next anti-Trump lie after the impeachment scam crashes and burns?


The piece was pretty short on info. Are they saying he falsified income info, property values, what? I own several buildings and I've never had a bank ask me for property income info on a building they held a loan on. And besides, the numbers absolutely could be different depending on what people are asking for. Heck, even a K1 would list out several numbers and the article doesn't even mention what numbers they are listing here - is it ending capital account in part 2-L? Is it the ordinary business income (loss) or net rental income (loss) in Part 3? And on the info his company provided to the bank, was is gross income, net, NOI (for cap rate purposes), what? All these numbers are different because they calculate different things.

To the uninformed, this stuff looks bad. To the informed, the article makes zero sense.
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#9 User is offline   Tikk 

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:00 AM

Wait. So now Whitewater is considered illegal?
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#10 User is offline   Natural Selection 

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:01 AM

View Postcorporal_little, on 17 October 2019 - 10:54 AM, said:

To the uninformed, this stuff looks bad. To the informed, the article makes zero sense.


Democrat smear campaigns in a nutshell.
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#11 User is offline   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:03 AM

View PostNatural Selection, on 17 October 2019 - 11:01 AM, said:

Democrat smear campaigns in a nutshell.

:exactly:

The lamestream media and democraps always try to exploit people's ignorance and emotions to deceive and manipulate to get over on them. Most all of their base are emotional ignoramuses.

This post has been edited by Rock N' Roll Right Winger: 17 October 2019 - 11:05 AM

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#12 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:11 AM

View PostTikk, on 17 October 2019 - 11:00 AM, said:

Wait. So now Whitewater is considered illegal?

Whitewater was the basis of three separate inquiries, the last of which was the Independent Council headed by Ken Starr.
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#13 User is offline   RedSoloCup 

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:12 AM

View PostLadybird, on 17 October 2019 - 09:23 AM, said:

Trump's tax dodges look more serious than Whitewater
October 16, 2019 06:26 PM


Conservatives who spent years investigating and criticizing the Clinton family business dealings known as “Whitewater” and Hillary Clinton’s cattle futures scam ought to be equally outraged by President Trump’s obviously sketchy tax dodges.

In terms of the money involved, Trump’s dealings, as outlined today by ProPublica, are much worse than the Clintons’ pre-presidential self-dealing. Yet soon, if recent past is prologue, we will surely hear either silence from the Clintons’ strongest critics, or worse, some fevered attempts to explain away the tax dodginess as business-as-usual.

The basic outline is simple. With regard to two of Trump’s major real-estate investments, the “art of the deal” involved filing financial reports with lenders and with tax authorities that were radically different from each other. The discrepancies regularly involved hundreds of thousands of dollars. On insurance alone on one building, for example, the publication reported that “costs in 2017 were listed as $744,521 in tax documents and $457,414 in loan records.”

To quote ProPublica:

“A dozen real estate professionals told ProPublica they saw no clear explanation for multiple inconsistencies in the documents. The discrepancies are ‘versions of fraud,’ said Nancy Wallace, a professor of finance and real estate at the Haas School of Business at the University of California-Berkeley. ‘This kind of stuff is not OK.’ … The punishments for lying to tax officials, or to lenders, can be significant, ranging from fines to criminal fraud charges. Two former Trump associates, Michael Cohen and Paul Manafort, are serving prison time for offenses that include falsifying tax and bank records, some of them related to real estate.”

For another example, “Trump’s company told New York City tax officials it made about $822,000 renting space to commercial tenants there in 2017, records show. The company told loan officials it took in $1.67 million that year — more than twice as much.”

These are not differences involving tiny percentages or explainable accounting errors. These are immense disparities. Moreover, each individual variance played in Trump’s favor. If they were random errors, surely some of the errors would disfavor the billionaire. But, no, not here. There is no reasonable way to assert there was no intentionality involved here, and deceitful intentionality, at that.

Unless there is a really, really convincing explanation for this, it is easily as investigatable as Whitewater was, and, unlike the convoluted Whitewater dealings in which the Clintons were secondary investors, there is almost no way that Trump can pawn off responsibility to others.

<snip>

Link


:crybaby2:

View PostRock N, on 17 October 2019 - 09:33 AM, said:

:biglaugh:

It's a <censored>ing opinion piece with no <censored>ing evidence of any of Trump's taxes and Trump was not even president yet nor an elected government official, unlike the Clintons who were living in the governor's mansion in Arkansas.

Trump has had not been running any of his own businesses since he took the oath of office.

You're and your like minded proggy dems fools are REALLY scraping the bottom of the barrel so much that you have no fingernails left! :lol:

I knew who had posted this crap before I even clicked on it! :D


:exactly:

No amount of psychiatric help will fix her.
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#14 User is offline   erp 

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:13 AM

“A dozen real estate professionals told ProPublica they saw no clear explanation for multiple inconsistencies in the documents.”

See, you all are missing the point here! A dozen, yes a dozen real estate professionals said this was some shaken stuff!!

A whole dozen for crying out loud!! That’s like, more than ten!!!

It’s a dozen!! Like a bakers dozen minus the extra donut!!


How can you all have missed this!?!?

A dozen!!!!
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#15 User is offline   Natural Selection 

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:13 AM

View PostRock N, on 17 October 2019 - 11:03 AM, said:

:exactly:

The lamestream media and democraps always try to exploit people's ignorance and emotions to deceive and manipulate to get over on them. Most all of their base are emotional ignoramuses.


Jonathan Gruber likes your post.
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#16 User is offline   erp 

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:15 AM

View Postcorporal_little, on 17 October 2019 - 10:54 AM, said:

The piece was pretty short on info. Are they saying he falsified income info, property values, what? I own several buildings and I've never had a bank ask me for property income info on a building they held a loan on. And besides, the numbers absolutely could be different depending on what people are asking for. Heck, even a K1 would list out several numbers and the article doesn't even mention what numbers they are listing here - is it ending capital account in part 2-L? Is it the ordinary business income (loss) or net rental income (loss) in Part 3? And on the info his company provided to the bank, was is gross income, net, NOI (for cap rate purposes), what? All these numbers are different because they calculate different things.

To the uninformed, this stuff looks bad. To the informed, the article makes zero sense.

When you say “uninformed,” you mean democrats, right? ;)
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#17 User is offline   mjperry51 

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:21 AM

View PostLadybird, on 17 October 2019 - 11:11 AM, said:

Whitewater was the basis of three separate inquiries, the last of which was the Independent Council headed by Ken Starr.


Remind me again what the outcome of the Whitewater part of the investigation was. . .

Where's that nothingburger emoticon??
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#18 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:24 AM

View PostMTP Reggie, on 17 October 2019 - 10:17 AM, said:

Let's see...



This describes my place and every other property on the planet. The tax-assessed value of my primary property is 75% of its market value. It's like this everywhere because tax values lag behind market values. At some point such as during a market downturn, it's entirely possible and even likely that my primary property's tax-assessed value will be greater than its market value.

:yawn:


Yeah no kidding. My property taxes are assessed about 100K below the value of my home, and my actual value of the house is about 150k above the value of the tax assessment. How is that illegal?
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#19 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:26 AM

View PostLadybird, on 17 October 2019 - 11:11 AM, said:

Whitewater was the basis of three separate inquiries, the last of which was the Independent Council headed by Ken Starr.


To this day Hillary still carries around the records she chose not to give under subpoena. So is she violating the law?
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#20 User is offline   corporal_little 

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:33 AM

View Posterp, on 17 October 2019 - 11:15 AM, said:

When you say “uninformed,” you mean democrats, right? ;)


No, absolutely not. This kind of stuff isn't aimed at people who wouldn't vote for him anyway. This is aimed at non-college educated, blue collar folks to try and paint a picture that Trump is just another rich crook. If they can turn even 5% of them to vote Democrat or not even vote at all in places like Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan and even Iowa.....that turns the election.

I know we are all predicting a Trump landslide....I think we need to be prepared to see him be impeached and the very real possibility of us having our first OPENLY socialist President, combined with control of Congress.
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