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Donated Organs Should Go To US Residents Before Illegal Immigrants, Says New GOP Bill Rate Topic: -----

#21 User is offline   Ticked@TinselTown 

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 06:59 PM

View PostLadybird, on 16 April 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

Yes. I don't think my life is worth more than someone else simply because of their immigration status. I'd have more of an issue with a liver being given to a chronic alcoholic that refuses to stop drinking instead me.

Is this really a huge problem? The sponsor said one of his constituents complained. Was it someone waiting for a transplant? Is it a big enough problem that we need to have a hard and fast rule enacted that overrules the decisions of medical professionals?

The story that was linked about wealthy foreigners jumping ahead of the line wouldn't be addressed by Posey's bill because they entered legally.


You aren't qualified to make that determination.
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#22 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 07:08 PM

View Postgravelrash, on 16 April 2018 - 06:57 PM, said:

"My body, my choice" only applies to abortion. The law in many countries dictates that you have to explicitly opt out of organ donation. Even then, if your parts are in demand, the government can sue your family to harvest. Up until the new tax law, you had to pay a "fee" to stay out of 0bamacare.

I used to sign the donation line on my card. I stopped because there is a lot of unethical dealings behind the scenes. I have in my will and written wishes never to donate. If my corpse has anything of value, better believe that there is some jackass lawyer waiting to sue for it.


Isn't that the truth.



This is the future of our nation if the democrats run it.
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#23 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 07:27 PM

View PostTaggart Transcontinental, on 16 April 2018 - 06:26 PM, said:

Would you want their organs? I certainly wouldn't, I don't drink, nor do I engage in other risky activities. And yes we should not accept their organs. Are they suddenly someone we should be harvesting?


Would I want an organ from a donor who was an illegal alien (or anyone else) to save my life? Of course I would. These are human beings, not another species.

This post has been edited by Ladybird: 16 April 2018 - 07:28 PM

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#24 User is offline   gravelrash 

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:00 PM

View PostLadybird, on 16 April 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

Would I want an organ from a donor who was an illegal alien (or anyone else) to save my life? Of course I would. These are human beings, not another species.


Since that person was "illegal" in any sense of the law (non-citizen or not paying fines for not purchasing health insurance), you're okay with carving?

You know that surgeons have transplanted baboon and pig hearts in attempts to extend human life.
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#25 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:15 PM

View PostTimothy, on 16 April 2018 - 05:43 PM, said:

If anyone wonders why people accuse many opponents of illegal immigrants of being bigots, it's sh*t like this where they drag immigration status into something that has nothing to do with immigration status. It is mean spirited, pure and simple.


Nobody "wonders" why. When people of little integrity have nothing of genuine substance with which to smear their betters, they invariably pull out the "bigot/racist/sexist/etc" card.

*yawn*

:rolleyes:
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#26 User is offline   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:18 PM

View PostLadybird, on 16 April 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

Would I want an organ from a donor who was an illegal alien (or anyone else) to save my life? Of course I would. These are human beings, not another species.

You're the one who brought that up here.

Shows where your mind is?
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#27 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:20 PM

View Postgravelrash, on 16 April 2018 - 08:00 PM, said:

Since that person was "illegal" in any sense of the law (non-citizen or not paying fines for not purchasing health insurance), you're okay with carving?

You know that surgeons have transplanted baboon and pig hearts in attempts to extend human life.


The woman referred to in this story, in a sub link, is an illegal alien who has lived in the US for 30 years and has health insurance. Her carrier approved the surgery. I have no problem with her receiving a transplant or her organs being transplanted to others. Whether or not hospitals are using diseased or animal parts has ZERO to do with a the medical needs of an immigrant and whether they are fit to donate organs.


These decisions should not be left to the discretion of reactionaries and those trying to score cheap political points by scapegoating Mexicans.
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#28 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:27 PM

View PostLadybird, on 16 April 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

Would I want an organ from a donor who was an illegal alien (or anyone else) to save my life? Of course I would. These are human beings, not another species.


You don't seem to get it. Go to Mexico or any other country and try to get on a list as a recipient of an organ. You won't be allowed on it. WE are literally the ONLY country in the world that opens our taxpayers to the liability of giving illegally entered people just about anything a citizen gets. There is but two exceptions. They aren't legally (though they do) allowed to vote nor are they legally allowed to draw from taxes. Yet they do. The argument is about illegals going to the back of the line. NOT about you getting something of benefit from another person. That's pretty standard for leftists. Obfuscation is your watchword.
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#29 User is offline   Magic Rat 

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:27 PM

View PostLadybird, on 16 April 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

Yes. I don't think my life is worth more than someone else simply because of their immigration status. I'd have more of an issue with a liver being given to a chronic alcoholic that refuses to stop drinking instead me.


Chronic alcoholics don't get transplants of any kind. They are required to totally abstain and are tested the entire time they are on the waiting list. So I hope this salves your worries.

Quote

Is this really a huge problem? The sponsor said one of his constituents complained. Was it someone waiting for a transplant? Is it a big enough problem that we need to have a hard and fast rule enacted that overrules the decisions of medical professionals?


'Medical professionals' alone do not make the decisions on who gets an organ from the waiting list. Once it is decided that the patient is a candidate, they are put on the list. The list is an actual list. It is separated by blood types, not race, sex or how much money you have. There is a board that can make a decision to postpone a patient's transplant because of medical reasons or the patient isn't following the rules.

My transplant was postponed because of an infection I got through dialysis. I didn't lose my place in line, but they had to ensure the infection was clear before I could be put back on the list. No sense in doing a transplant if he donated organ can be harmed by the recipient. I received my kidney on Halloween night in 2015.

The board has 'medical professionals', but also social workers, accountants and should have a few who will represent those who die to donate and pay for this list. So even if it is a small 'problem', why shouldn't Americans have a priority on an American organ list?

Quote

The story that was linked about wealthy foreigners jumping ahead of the line wouldn't be addressed by Posey's bill because they entered legally.


Since this isn't a 'big problem', you should have no complaints about a law that would prioritize donatations of American resources to Americans.

This post has been edited by Magic Rat: 16 April 2018 - 08:32 PM

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#30 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:35 PM

View PostLadybird, on 16 April 2018 - 08:20 PM, said:

The woman referred to in this story, in a sub link, is an illegal alien who has lived in the US for 30 years and has health insurance. Her carrier approved the surgery. I have no problem with her receiving a transplant or her organs being transplanted to others. Whether or not hospitals are using diseased or animal parts has ZERO to do with a the medical needs of an immigrant and whether they are fit to donate organs.


These decisions should not be left to the discretion of reactionaries and those trying to score cheap political points by scapegoating Mexicans.


OK lets break down the nonsense in your human shield.

She's illegally been here 30 years. So she broke the law. She has insurance, does she have a job? Does she LEGALLY have a job. IS she legally receiving insurance from a carrier that is augmented by American citizens? Or is she receiving stipends from taxpayers for her Obamacare? She should not be working in the US, she should not be in the US.

I am not scapegoating a damn person. The US gives Mexico foreign aid. That is 87 MILLION DOLLARS This year to MEXICO. Ya think they can foot the bill for their own damn surgeries? Ya think that maybe we can stop letting them piss on the US flag and then demand we pay them more? That's on TOP of the 23 BILLION that is estimated to be sent home from the US by illegals in the US annually. Maybe just maybe instead of crying crocodile tears for more DNC voters from other countries we can start helping the damn black Americans that really need our help? Maybe just maybe we can kick some of the estimated 30 friggin Million of them out of our country so some of those jobs can go to the estimated 64 Million American's that have stopped looking for jobs? That would certainly cut that number of unemployed and under employed black/hispanic/ and other AMERICANs jobless numbers?

How about that, how about we stop the nonsense and take care of AMERICANS.
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#31 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:44 PM

View PostMagic Rat, on 16 April 2018 - 08:27 PM, said:

Chronic alcoholics don't get transplants of any kind. They are required to totally abstain and are tested the entire time they are on the waiting list. So I hope this salves your worries.



'Medical professionals' alone do not make the decisions on who gets an organ from the waiting list. Once it is decided that the patient is a candidate, they are put on the list. The list is an actual list. It is separated by blood types, not race, sex or how much money you have. There is a board that can make a decision to postpone a patient's transplant because of medical reasons or the patient isn't following the rules.

My transplant was postponed because of an infection I got through dialysis. I didn't lose my place in line, but they had to ensure the infection was clear before I could be put back on the list. No sense in doing a transplant if he donated organ can be harmed by the recipient. I received my kidney on Halloween night in 2015.

The board has 'medical professionals', but also social workers, accountants and should have a few who will represent those who die to donate and pay for this list. So even if it is a small 'problem', why shouldn't Americans have a priority on an American organ list?



Since this isn't a 'big problem', you should have no complaints about a law that would prioritize donatations of American resources to Americans.


How did Larry Hagman manage to get a liver?

I asked if it (illegals getting organ transplants over citizens) was a big problem. Didn't say that it wasn't. There is very little actual evidence presented in this story to justify a law that might over rule the recommendations of medical professionals.

I said up there I don't consider my life more valuable than someone else who is not American. I suppose I don't understand the way of thinking of those who do, but that's fine.
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#32 User is offline   Magic Rat 

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:22 PM

View PostLadybird, on 16 April 2018 - 08:44 PM, said:

How did Larry Hagman manage to get a liver?

I asked if it (illegals getting organ transplants over citizens) was a big problem. Didn't say that it wasn't. There is very little actual evidence presented in this story to justify a law that might over rule the recommendations of medical professionals.

I said up there I don't consider my life more valuable than someone else who is not American. I suppose I don't understand the way of thinking of those who do, but that's fine.


I believe Hagman's liver was donated by family. There is no waiting list, so the rules are different. My first doner was my sister in 1995. No line. It lasted almost 19 years. When you go on the list, there are more stringent parameters.

I don't believe that this is a big problem except that idea that American resources to be prioritized toward citizens first, legal immigrants second and illegal aliens just before convicts. When it comes to convicts, the same priorities should be applied after illegals.

American resources should always be prioritized to her citizens. I appreciate your self-rightious attitude juat like i do with every other sanctimonious leftist. Your life may not be more valuable, but your needs up to your life should be a priority when it comes to valuable resources, whether it is money, food or life saving organs. You could always sneak into another country and be less valuable there if it will make you feel better.

If an illegal alien has a family member or someone else to donate an organ, he can afford the surgery, then he doesn't have to worry about the list.

This post has been edited by Magic Rat: 16 April 2018 - 09:25 PM

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#33 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:32 PM

View PostMagic Rat, on 16 April 2018 - 09:22 PM, said:

I believe Hagman's liver was donated by family. There is no waiting list, so the rules are different. My first doner was my sister in 1995. No line. It lasted almost 19 years. When you go on the list, there are more stringent parameters.

I don't believe that this is a big problem except that idea that American resources to be prioritized toward citizens first, legal immigrants second and illegal aliens just before convicts. When it comes to convicts, the same priorities should be applied after illegals.

American resources should always be prioritized to her citizens. I appreciate your self-rightious attitude juat like i do with every other sanctimonious leftist. Your life may not be more valuable, but your needs up to your life should be a priority when it comes to valuable resources, whether it is money, food or life saving organs. You could always sneak into another country and be less valuable there if it will make you feel better.

If an illegal alien has a family member or someone else to donate an organ, he can afford the surgery, then he doesn't have to worry about the list.


You have a different values and a point of view from mine. That doesn't make me self righteous or sanctimonious.
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#34 User is offline   Magic Rat 

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:51 PM

View PostLadybird, on 16 April 2018 - 09:32 PM, said:

You have a different values and a point of view from mine. That doesn't make me self righteous or sanctimonious.


I honestly don't believe you always are. I do believe that silly statement where you pretend that you don't believe yourself to be more valuable than anyone else is a sanctimonious and phony statement.
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#35 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 05:22 AM

View PostLadybird, on 16 April 2018 - 08:44 PM, said:

How did Larry Hagman manage to get a liver?

I asked if it (illegals getting organ transplants over citizens) was a big problem. Didn't say that it wasn't. There is very little actual evidence presented in this story to justify a law that might over rule the recommendations of medical professionals.

I said up there I don't consider my life more valuable than someone else who is not American. I suppose I don't understand the way of thinking of those who do, but that's fine.


I love the appeal to authority arguments thrown out by leftists every day. This concept does not pass the smell tests at all if taken by REGULAR PEOPLE. If I went on the street and asked 100 people, should Illegal Aliens get transplants in the US? The answer would be looks of credulity. Yet we give "medical experts" the authority over our lives. Sorry I am tired of the "experts" economic, medical, military, legal, etc who seem to be able proclaim from their various mountains that we should bow to their belief system and surrender OUR RIGHTS as individuals to decide for ourselves.

Just today a "legal expert" declared sex obsolete simply because of someone's feelings. Does not work like that. We used to say those people were abnormal, now we declare they are not only the norm but we the norm are insane for ever declaring them abnormal. Remember transgender is less than 1% of the total population of the world outside of sexual gratification in some fantasy. They are not the norm.

The bottom line. A illegal person here in the US does not have the resources to pay for their transplant. That is a fact, if they could pay for their transplant they would have the financial capability to not be here ILLEGALLY in the first place. Case in point my wife, we have the financial capabilities to get her a citizenship and she's going through that process at this time. So we the people will be handed the bill for the operation, and the organ transplant that SHOULD go to an American citizen. To use the theory of Van Jones and other murderous "experts" the illegal offers this nation nothing. Just like any child under 5 or adult over 60. Therefore the least amount of American tax paying dolares should go to the expenditures of these people for any medical services. They do not pay taxes (most are paid under the table) and if they do pay taxes they are executing identity fraud. Lets see your attitude when one of them files taxes on Jan 4 against your SSN. Boy will you be happy to see that 5 thousand dollar refund you thought was yours go to some illegal family. Then you will suddenly have an opinion about illegals other than "they are wonderful people".

So do we bow to the "medical experts" who have proclaimed Obamacare the law of the land or do we suddenly bow to a different group that claims their lives are of value to the United States of America? If so then the question is why are their lives MORE VALUABLE than a citizens, since unlike Mexico where every Mexican is the property of Mexico and can be harvested at will, we have rights and choose whether to give our parts up for the greater good.

Another question, how far down the road are we from Mexico demanding the return of every dead mexican in the US at the expense of the taxpayer's so they can harvest the organs of their property. It's not far from now. I promise you, Mexico sees money to be made here and therefore it will be coming.
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#36 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 05:38 AM

View PostLadybird, on 16 April 2018 - 09:32 PM, said:

You have a different values and a point of view from mine. That doesn't make me self righteous or sanctimonious.


He was spot on with that characterization. That's your standard second response to almost all arguments involving illegals. Claim we are racist fall back on self defense of sanctimony. You are no better than them nonsense is getting old and tired. Guess what, in the United States of America where YOU are the citizen, you are in fact better than them. You are a tax paying citizen, they are consumers of taxes with out providing the benefit of paying into the system.

On the pure christian / muslim / buddhist system you are not. But we are not citizens of our religion, and as Jesus said render unto Caesar what is his and unto the Lord what is his. So spare us the sanctimony.
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#37 User is offline   Ticked@TinselTown 

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 06:32 AM

View PostTimothy, on 16 April 2018 - 05:43 PM, said:

I couldn't agree more.

Also there is little reason to believe that illegal immigrants are more likely to be recipients than donors. Or that the presence of illegal immigrants will make it any less harder or easier for anyone else to get an organ.

If anyone wonders why people accuse many opponents of illegal immigrants of being bigots, it's sh*t like this where they drag immigration status into something that has nothing to do with immigration status. It is mean spirited, pure and simple.


There is little reason to believe that you understand reason at all.
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#38 User is online   Wag-a-Muffin (D) 

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 09:13 AM

Heck, why stop with undocumented residents of the U.S. when you're starting a queue for organ recipients. Let's make the list include every person on the planet!
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#39 User is offline   Mrdirt73 

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 09:52 AM

View PostWag-a-Muffin (D), on 17 April 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

Heck, why stop with undocumented residents of the U.S. when you're starting a queue for organ recipients. Let's make the list include every person on the planet!

exactly. Just because every other country has their own separate organ donor list doesn't mean that the US should be so racist as to limit theirs to only their citizens.
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#40 User is offline   Buckwheat Jones 

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 10:38 AM

View PostTimothy, on 16 April 2018 - 05:43 PM, said:

I couldn't agree more.

Also there is little reason to believe that illegal immigrants are more likely to be recipients than donors. Or that the presence of illegal immigrants will make it any less harder or easier for anyone else to get an organ.

If anyone wonders why people accuse many opponents of illegal immigrants of being bigots, it's sh*t like this where they drag immigration status into something that has nothing to do with immigration status. It is mean spirited, pure and simple.

Oh, BS. Itís a perfectly valid issue to bring up for discussion if taxes pay for any part of the process.
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