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#41 User is online   Squirrel 

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 10:25 AM

View PostSeverian, on 22 June 2019 - 10:17 AM, said:

Bravo! Spoken like a man who's been there and who has both experience and common sense.


What people forget is that the Geneva Convention and other such agreements are a carrot/stick thing. They guarantee, supposedly, that if your country signs them and abides by them we will do the same. We don't have to treat you according to the Convention if you are not a signatory and don't treat our people in accordance with the convention, especially if you're a non-state actor, not part of a formal uniformed military. For example, the Hague Convention restricts the use of hollow point ammunition, but the Taliban and ISIS and such are not covered by it, being non-state actors, and as such we can use whatever ammo we want, and we never sighed the Hague anyway.

,


Iím aware of all that. Rules of engagement just lock in a loss when the other side does not follow them. There is nothing pretty about war. Prior to the gulf there was a standing joke among tankers. You are not allowed to shoot at paratroopers in the air. But if it ever comes to that tell them you were shooting at thier equipment. Rules are a big part of why we never finished and won a war after Korea and that was a draw. That and the fact we wonít make a long term commitment. How long have we had forces in Germany? I know I was in Berlin when the wall fell and I received the he ww2 medal of occupation for being there. You either go in a country finish a fight and stay long term or you donít go. The biggest issue with gulf one was stopping and not rolling all the way to Iraq and then staying.
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#42 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 10:30 AM

View Postfirecoco, on 22 June 2019 - 09:55 AM, said:

There was a great line in the movie Full Metal Jacket....Joker is riding in the helicopter and the door gunner is shooting at water buffalo and then the door gunner sees a woman and child running and he starts shooting at them

Joker says to the door gunner....How can you shoot women and children?

Door gunner to Joker...."I don't lead them as much"


Yeah i linked that but it didn't work.

View PostLadybird, on 22 June 2019 - 09:58 AM, said:

That should have been presented, if true. At least it's grounds for an appeal if this trial goes to the prosecution.


Not in courts martial, they are horrible compared to the American court system, suppression of evidence is common place.
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#43 User is offline   NH Populist 

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 10:42 AM

LB, your knowledge of the subject at hand disqualifies you from arguing with posters here who've been there. You completely missed the point in my last post, completely! Maybe go back and read it again, I'm not about to explain it...

This post has been edited by NH Populist: 22 June 2019 - 10:43 AM

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#44 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 10:59 AM

View PostLadybird, on 22 June 2019 - 09:58 AM, said:

That should have been presented, if true. At least it's grounds for an appeal if this trial goes to the prosecution.


Here is the problematic statement. Should have been presented, IF TRUE. Do you believe that all the evidence presented by the state is true? Do you believe that the state would never prosecute an innocent man? Funny if this were a black man in the city of detroit you would be stating without a doubt that he's innocent and that the "state" is making a false case. Yet because it is a military court then it's obviously from your perspective TRUE.
Realize that people have agenda's, that includes the "witnesses", the enemy, the prosecution, the defense, the courts, the commanders, the judge, and the Jury. The reality is there is a truth out there you and I are not privy to. That is the absolute truth of what happened. In reality in most cases there is no absolute truth revealed. One side or the other reveals what they believe happened and a jury looks at that from their bias and they either let the person walk or they throw the book at them. We have an imperfect system, but it's all we have.

Now I want you to understand something else.

When a Soldier is KIA or MIA from a combat zone you know nothing, about the facts of that Soldier. Specifically how they died and what they were doing when they died, all you get is a number. You have no idea what those animals were doing over there to their own people and to ours. We lost many personnel in Iraq.

https://www.cnn.com/...acts/index.html
What you will never know is the condition of the body when found. Reason? Dehumanization of the enemy is against Geneva Convention.

https://www.news.com...5d54858e80e69c7
Soldiers were tortured, and murdered plain and simple.

Quote

Photos given to the news media show a filthy bed wired to an electrical system, with an outlet hanging from wires on the wall. Other photos show an entrance to the underground bunker and barbed wire stretched outside it.


You cannot imagine the things found in these places and they were all over the place. Battery operated drills, and other implements, people were slowly murdered over days and weeks. Everyone of those cells knew what would happen to someone when they were captured, they KNEW it because everyone in ISIS was trained and had to witness it so they could understand that the enemy deserved this. So cry me a river about the poor "kid" that was murdered. You know nothing of the body count he wracked up, nor do I. He was a combatant, he was fighting and he died. But he didn't end up in some basement bunker slowly being drilled into or shocked to within an inch of his life over and over to finally be drug outside and have his head slowly hacked off by some murderous thug screaming god is greater.

You and others hide behind the walls that men and women die to protect, you then cast your slings at the honor of those that defend you against threats you are too afraid to stand up against yourself and claim we are the monsters.

This post has been edited by Taggart Transcontinental: 22 June 2019 - 11:00 AM

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#45 User is online   Squirrel 

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 11:04 AM

View PostTaggart Transcontinental, on 22 June 2019 - 10:59 AM, said:

Here is the problematic statement. Should have been presented, IF TRUE. Do you believe that all the evidence presented by the state is true? Do you believe that the state would never prosecute an innocent man? Funny if this were a black man in the city of detroit you would be stating without a doubt that he's innocent and that the "state" is making a false case. Yet because it is a military court then it's obviously from your perspective TRUE.
Realize that people have agenda's, that includes the "witnesses", the enemy, the prosecution, the defense, the courts, the commanders, the judge, and the Jury. The reality is there is a truth out there you and I are not privy to. That is the absolute truth of what happened. In reality in most cases there is no absolute truth revealed. One side or the other reveals what they believe happened and a jury looks at that from their bias and they either let the person walk or they throw the book at them. We have an imperfect system, but it's all we have.

Now I want you to understand something else.

When a Soldier is KIA or MIA from a combat zone you know nothing, about the facts of that Soldier. Specifically how they died and what they were doing when they died, all you get is a number. You have no idea what those animals were doing over there to their own people and to ours. We lost many personnel in Iraq.

https://www.cnn.com/...acts/index.html
What you will never know is the condition of the body when found. Reason? Dehumanization of the enemy is against Geneva Convention.

https://www.news.com...5d54858e80e69c7
Soldiers were tortured, and murdered plain and simple.


You cannot imagine the things found in these places and they were all over the place. Battery operated drills, and other implements, people were slowly murdered over days and weeks. Everyone of those cells knew what would happen to someone when they were captured, they KNEW it because everyone in ISIS was trained and had to witness it so they could understand that the enemy deserved this. So cry me a river about the poor "kid" that was murdered. You know nothing of the body count he wracked up, nor do I. He was a combatant, he was fighting and he died. But he didn't end up in some basement bunker slowly being drilled into or shocked to within an inch of his life over and over to finally be drug outside and have his head slowly hacked off by some murderous thug screaming god is greater.

You and others hide behind the walls that men and women die to protect, you then cast your slings at the honor of those that defend you against threats you are too afraid to stand up against yourself and claim we are the monsters.

👍
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#46 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 11:16 AM

View PostTaggart Transcontinental, on 22 June 2019 - 09:27 AM, said:

In a combat zone where people pick up and drop weapons in a second please define "civilian". In Iraq children were used to detonate IEDs, they were sent to retrieve weapons. They were running messages from fighter to fighter. That makes them combatants. I am curious if you were walking down the streets of Fallujah and some child began to throw a grenade at your people would you shoot that kid?

You are shooting at a "civilian" but that isn't really the case, the child has become a combatant. In the aftermath when that kid is a corpse there is no proof, just some clown with a camera claiming the kid wasn't doing a thing. You have to know what that Soldier knew at the moment that Soldier pulled the trigger in order to know what happened, not hindsight, not hearsay, not some fantastic claim by someone fed up and willing to make stories up in order to get out of a position they don't like.

Secondly, people dealing with death react to it differently. When faced with death some cry, some laugh some respond violently and attack and others fold like a paper bag. I was flying a mission in Iraq, and had just dropped off an Admiral at one of our bases, we were taking off and climbed over a T-wall on the way to get gas when 2 mortar rounds detonated around our aircraft, one landed under us on the T-wall about 30 feet from us, and the other missed by 300 meters. The aircraft shook, my Pilot in Command for this mission was a female Captain, she started laughing with an evil laugh, my response was to throw my hand out the door of our aircraft and toss the enemy the bird. My crew chiefs screamed, the outboard one actually saw the round slide through our rotor system and strike the wall.

All of us had our own response to that engagement. Until you been there and done that, you have no idea or understanding of what these people go through. PTSD? Damn right they all have it. I don't because I never had a problem doing what I had to do there. Nor did I get into any truly horrific crap, most of my "events" were short lived and high peak then nothing, on the other hand these people SEALs and the like are all high peak long term. When that happens you do things that are odd. Like taking pictures of your "kills" or posing with them. That's human nature and goes all the way back to when we took scalps of our fallen enemies, most of the time as they lay dying on the ground. It's barbaric, cruel and demeaning to the enemy. But that enemy also had a choice, they could have chose to not engage those troops in combat, they could have chosen instead to live within the rules they fought against. None of these people on either side are victims of anything, they were warriors and died. That happens, as does the reaction of those that were victors in the fight. If you can't accept that then stop sending them into combat, and be prepared to be a true victim, one who is oppressed and unwilling to do any thing about it.


I get all that, and I would hope that anyone else who has been in the military and/or a war zone does too.

But what sells it for me is that it was his own teammates that turned him in. And then kept pressing it after the Navy initially tried to ignore it. That's persuasive. VERY persuasive.

I mean, What should I believe? That SEAL Team Seven had (1) bad apple that went rogue during his EIGHTH tour in the area (enough to make anyone snap)? OR, that Eddie Gallagher was the One Righteous DudeTM on the team and all the other SEALs were a bunch of namby-pamby bleeding-heart-liberal weenies?
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#47 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 11:28 AM

View Postzurg, on 22 June 2019 - 10:03 AM, said:

Youíre missing the point: youíve already decided that this soldier is guilty. Letís hear the evidence. Also, you seem unmoved by context. Does it matter or does it not matter what was going on? I havenít heard what the young man who died was up to.

Do you not think that war is different than regular life? I only protest the fact that youíre very quick to throw an American soldier under the bus but comparatively donít have the same attitude towards inner city killers.

Is that because itís just easier for you to assume our soldiers are bad people?


You're mis-characterizing what I have posted. I never said this man is guilty. This is a trial which I posted an update on.
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#48 User is online   Squirrel 

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 12:26 PM

View PostLadybird, on 22 June 2019 - 11:28 AM, said:

You're mis-characterizing what I have posted. I never said this man is guilty. This is a trial which I posted an update on.

Yep thatís all it was. Strange how thereís never a post from you of black man or Muslim trial updates going bad for them. I guess thereís no connection between every update you post and your beliefs. But as you said this thread isnít about you and you wonít answer facts about what you think, what you believe or why you post them. So basically they show your beliefs and speak to what you think. Iím sure youíd feel the same way if one poster continually posted anti gay or anti Islam stuff. It would just be hey hereís anouther black guy accused in court, hereís anouther Muslim,,, etc. then said itís just court updates I thought they were interesting and posted. But Iím m not answering any questions about it, itís not about me itís about the black or Islamic court case. But that would be great by you and you would nott think anything about that persons charecter or thoughts? Just curious

This post has been edited by Squirrel: 22 June 2019 - 12:35 PM

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#49 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 12:35 PM

View PostSquirrel, on 22 June 2019 - 12:26 PM, said:

Yep thatís all it was. Strange how thereís never a post of black man or Muslim trial updates going bad for them. I guess thereís no connection between every update you post and your beliefs. But as you said this thread isnít about you and you wonít answer facts about what you think, what you believe or why you post them. So basically they show your beliefs and speak to what you think. Iím sure youíd feel the same way if one poster continually posted anti gay or anti Islam stuff. It would just be hey hereís anouther black guy accused in court, hereís anouther Muslim,,, etc. then said itís just court updates I thought they were interesting and posted. But Iím m not answering any questions about it, itís not about me itís about the black or Islamic court case. But that would be great by you and not say anything about that persons charecter or thoughts? Just curious


"Race again, sigh"
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#50 User is online   Squirrel 

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 12:38 PM

View PostLadybird, on 22 June 2019 - 12:35 PM, said:

"Race again, sigh"

Yeah pull out that card I never said anything racist in that post and donít pick and choose what I comment on by race black or white. I can see what you choose to comment on and focus on. Is that your only response? Why are you so worried about race? Thereís a term for that. But by all means feel free to actually address facts. Iíd love to see examples were I posted anything racist if thatís what your inferring.if itís not explain what you mean?or is that just the trained left response yell racist and your clear and free from responsibility to explain or answer. You are showing the shining example of racism in that accusation. But I know you can never admit that. If you are going to accuse someone of something please back it up with facts and examples. See I am not racist so yelling that does not make me run. Now your turn again, please explain and answer simple questions

This post has been edited by Squirrel: 22 June 2019 - 12:43 PM

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#51 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 01:02 PM

View PostLadybird, on 22 June 2019 - 11:28 AM, said:

You're mis-characterizing what I have posted. I never said this man is guilty. This is a trial which I posted an update on.


https://www.breitbar...ddie-gallagher/

Quote

Scott responded, "I put my thumb over his tube until he stopped breathing." Parlatore asked, "Did you suffocate him?" Scott responded, "Yes."


As I stated Gallagher put in a Trache, this guy used that trache to kill him. When he said thumb over the tube the way to insert one is to use a knife or scalpel and cut the neck and then insert the tube into the breathing tube and push it down to establish an airway. I was trained to do this 15 years ago with combat lifesaver stuff before they stopped that. Never did it hands on, it was just a slide explaining it. The guy is innocent of all charges. Period, until proven guilty. The actions of the prosecution in this case or horrendous. The investigating officer was fired for malfeasance. This prosecution has been ham handed since day one. Trump had to step in because the Commanding officer had him in solitary confinement as if he were guilty before the trial. Talk about prejudicing the jury.

Quote

Bernie Kerik, former New York Police Department commissioner and a close family friend of the Gallaghers’, wrote on Instagram: “At what point does the government admit that this case should have never been brought in the first place?”



EXACTLY! This case is a sham.

This post has been edited by Taggart Transcontinental: 22 June 2019 - 01:11 PM

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#52 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 01:06 PM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 22 June 2019 - 11:16 AM, said:

I get all that, and I would hope that anyone else who has been in the military and/or a war zone does too.

But what sells it for me is that it was his own teammates that turned him in. And then kept pressing it after the Navy initially tried to ignore it. That's persuasive. VERY persuasive.

I mean, What should I believe? That SEAL Team Seven had (1) bad apple that went rogue during his EIGHTH tour in the area (enough to make anyone snap)? OR, that Eddie Gallagher was the One Righteous DudeTM on the team and all the other SEALs were a bunch of namby-pamby bleeding-heart-liberal weenies?


Yeah? as far as his peers? People have pissing contests all the time. One of my peers in a job recently due to a political argument claimed I was threatening to shoot the place up, I never said any such thing about anything, yet his claim was treated as gospel and I lost a job. No biggie I landed on my feet and am doing just fine. BUT people make false allegations all the time. As a cop it's your job to identify them and sort the facts from the nonsense.

All the other's? As in 2 who had beef with him? I think it's probably somewhere in the middle.

Understand this, in a situation where there are bullets flying if your partner shoots you are more than likely going to shoot too. You have no idea why he fired in some instances, you just know the person next to you pulled the trigger and you also do so.

Possibly he fired because he saw the other guys do so and then said god you guys suck! I got him though not knowing they intended on firing a warning shot.

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#53 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 02:57 PM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 22 June 2019 - 11:16 AM, said:

I get all that, and I would hope that anyone else who has been in the military and/or a war zone does too.

But what sells it for me is that it was his own teammates that turned him in. And then kept pressing it after the Navy initially tried to ignore it. That's persuasive. VERY persuasive.

I mean, What should I believe? That SEAL Team Seven had (1) bad apple that went rogue during his EIGHTH tour in the area (enough to make anyone snap)? OR, that Eddie Gallagher was the One Righteous DudeTM on the team and all the other SEALs were a bunch of namby-pamby bleeding-heart-liberal weenies?

These are NOT the only possibilities.

It could be that there was a running feud between Gallagher and a couple of team members, and Gallagher wasnít liked much by the rest of the team. Easy to see the couple of members convincing the rest that Gallagher is guilty as sin, that crazy murderous bastard.

It could be that Gallagherís actions were misinterpreted. What if Taggart is correct and Gallagher WAS trying to treat the kid? What if his killing was a misunderstanding of desired intent of mission? What if other people did stuff too and are now up against having to explain it all, and are scapegoating Gallagher?

I donít know what happened but I see lots of people telling me that they sure know and I gotta stop asking questions. I see the ďSETTLED SCIENCEĒ attitude loud and clear. Yet, if it is a clear case, why is the prosecution stumbling so badly? THAT doesnít make sense.

This post has been edited by zurg: 22 June 2019 - 02:59 PM

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#54 User is offline   firecoco 

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 03:15 PM

View PostTaggart Transcontinental, on 22 June 2019 - 10:30 AM, said:

Yeah i linked that but it didn't work.



Not in courts martial, they are horrible compared to the American court system, suppression of evidence is common place.

Wait a minute...That means you and I think alike?
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#55 User is online   Squirrel 

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 06:18 PM

View PostLadybird, on 22 June 2019 - 12:35 PM, said:

"Race again, sigh"

Still waiting on examples of who uses race instead of facts or discussion? Certainly there was a point to that? See I donít like being acused with out facts. So please list your point lady bird and list examples. Iíll wait. Iím sure you have a ton of fun facts , my racist posts and it isnít just anouther dodge not to address facts? Iíd like to know how racist I am or how I only care about race. So please give examples. Or am I just racist because I hold everyone to be he same standards? If your going to accuse someone as a deflection please show facts? Or answer the questions brought up

This post has been edited by Squirrel: 22 June 2019 - 06:22 PM

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#56 User is offline   Moderator T 

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 06:29 PM

View PostLadybird, on 22 June 2019 - 12:35 PM, said:

"Race again, sigh"


Right? Reminds me of some other poster who bangs the "racist cops" and "racist conservatives" bell all the live long day. Huh. Weird.
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#57 User is online   Squirrel 

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 06:41 PM

View PostModerator T, on 22 June 2019 - 06:29 PM, said:

Right? Reminds me of some other poster who bangs the "racist cops" and "racist conservatives" bell all the live long day. Huh. Weird.

If I ever post a race based artical solely for that reason please feel free to ban me. If I ever make a racist statement or accusation ban me. Also if I falsely accuse someone else of racism please ban me. If I post something and wonít answer please ban me. Iím sure lb can say the same. Or at least explain her accusations

This post has been edited by Squirrel: 22 June 2019 - 06:42 PM

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#58 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 07:19 PM

View PostModerator T, on 22 June 2019 - 06:29 PM, said:

Right? Reminds me of some other poster who bangs the "racist cops" and "racist conservatives" bell all the live long day. Huh. Weird.


Does it remind you of posters that blame every negative story where the parties happen to be black on their blackness or culture, instead of their personal lack of character?
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#59 User is offline   USNRETWIFE 

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 08:15 PM

View PostTaggart Transcontinental, on 22 June 2019 - 10:59 AM, said:

Here is the problematic statement. Should have been presented, IF TRUE. Do you believe that all the evidence presented by the state is true? Do you believe that the state would never prosecute an innocent man? Funny if this were a black man in the city of detroit you would be stating without a doubt that he's innocent and that the "state" is making a false case. Yet because it is a military court then it's obviously from your perspective TRUE.
Realize that people have agenda's, that includes the "witnesses", the enemy, the prosecution, the defense, the courts, the commanders, the judge, and the Jury. The reality is there is a truth out there you and I are not privy to. That is the absolute truth of what happened. In reality in most cases there is no absolute truth revealed. One side or the other reveals what they believe happened and a jury looks at that from their bias and they either let the person walk or they throw the book at them. We have an imperfect system, but it's all we have.

Now I want you to understand something else.

When a Soldier is KIA or MIA from a combat zone you know nothing, about the facts of that Soldier. Specifically how they died and what they were doing when they died, all you get is a number. You have no idea what those animals were doing over there to their own people and to ours. We lost many personnel in Iraq.

https://www.cnn.com/...acts/index.html
What you will never know is the condition of the body when found. Reason? Dehumanization of the enemy is against Geneva Convention.

https://www.news.com...5d54858e80e69c7
Soldiers were tortured, and murdered plain and simple.


You cannot imagine the things found in these places and they were all over the place. Battery operated drills, and other implements, people were slowly murdered over days and weeks. Everyone of those cells knew what would happen to someone when they were captured, they KNEW it because everyone in ISIS was trained and had to witness it so they could understand that the enemy deserved this. So cry me a river about the poor "kid" that was murdered. You know nothing of the body count he wracked up, nor do I. He was a combatant, he was fighting and he died. But he didn't end up in some basement bunker slowly being drilled into or shocked to within an inch of his life over and over to finally be drug outside and have his head slowly hacked off by some murderous thug screaming god is greater.

You and others hide behind the walls that men and women die to protect, you then cast your slings at the honor of those that defend you against threats you are too afraid to stand up against yourself and claim we are the monsters.

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#60 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 09:09 PM

View PostSquirrel, on 22 June 2019 - 12:38 PM, said:

Yeah pull out that card I never said anything racist in that post and donít pick and choose what I comment on by race black or white. I can see what you choose to comment on and focus on. Is that your only response? Why are you so worried about race? Thereís a term for that. But by all means feel free to actually address facts. Iíd love to see examples were I posted anything racist if thatís what your inferring.if itís not explain what you mean?or is that just the trained left response yell racist and your clear and free from responsibility to explain or answer. You are showing the shining example of racism in that accusation. But I know you can never admit that. If you are going to accuse someone of something please back it up with facts and examples. See I am not racist so yelling that does not make me run. Now your turn again, please explain and answer simple questions


This thread has nothing to do with race. For some reason, you and Zurg decided to inject it here without even a sliver of context.
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