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After Muslim Violence, Europeans are Getting Guns Rate Topic: -----

#41 User is offline   Severian 

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 12:03 PM

“Assault weapons” are just the tip of the camels nose into the tent. They go after them because not only have they been used in shootings, shootings that did not use them are not hawked by the press as much, but also because they look “scary.” Thanks to Hollywood most people have no idea of the real capabilities and limitations of a true assault rifle let alone a modern sporting rifle that looks like a military arm. So they are easily demonized. The goal, as with the ozone hole BS, was not to solve any real problem but to establish the method for seizing more control and power and condition people into giving up rights and power without complaint. As soon as they outlaw evil assault weapons they will point out that it had no effect on gun deaths, so they will move on to hand guns, and then to all guns.

Same approach as Obamacare. Screw up the healthcare system and create massive disruption and problems, then blame the Republicans and the insurance companies and capitalism for the problems, sigh and say we tried to help you, but failed because of all these evil people and companies, so we just have to nationalize healthcare to single payer.

What they claim to want to do is never the end state, just the first nibble at the elephant they want to devour.
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#42 User is offline   scotsman 

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 03:36 PM

View Postoki, on 12 January 2019 - 12:27 AM, said:

What I don't get is how one firearm which can be legal simply because it has a slightly lower rate of fire, might take a little bit longer to reload, but packs one hell of a more punch. Perfect example is a Lee Enfield .303 British vs an AR15. 5.56/.223 vs a .303 British?

To anyone who thinks that you can't rapid fire a traditional bolt action...
https://www.youtube....h?v=PsDLjfA1Ylw

https://www.youtube....h?v=PsDLjfA1Ylw

With the second video these are all aimed shots.

Modify the bolt handle a little, basic machine work that any tinkerer with access to basic machine tools and you don't even have to drop the rifle from your shoulder to cycle the action.

Still though... would the rifles I asked about in my previous post be legal? Yes or no I am curious to learn why or why not.
One thing that does blow my mind is the shot gun picture appears to be a Mossberg 930 series. Semi auto, 7 shell capacity.
How is that legal as you put slugs in it and it is well above the .22 Caliber limit? If mass shooting is someones goal it would be a very ideal weapon as slugs at close range are extremely devastating. In these parts 12 Gauge and even 20 Gauge Slugs are very popular with deer hunters.

Plo


Because our politicians have much less grasp of guns than yours. And that's saying summat.

View PostMontyPython, on 12 January 2019 - 03:37 AM, said:

Meh, don't look for "reasoning" behind gun laws/restrictions/bans/"control"/etc. Regardless whether we're talking about Europe, America, UK or pretty much anywhere else, aren't most gun "control" laws pushed by the people with the least knowledge of, and experience with, guns? People with irrational fears thereof? In other words, hoplophobes? You're not gonna discover a whole lot of "reason" from that bunch.

B)


Mr Nail, meet Mr Head.
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#43 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 05:47 PM

View Postscotsman, on 12 January 2019 - 03:36 PM, said:

Because our politicians have much less grasp of guns than yours. And that's saying summat.



Mr Nail, meet Mr Head.


:2up:
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#44 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 06:06 PM

View PostSeverian, on 12 January 2019 - 12:03 PM, said:

“Assault weapons” are just the tip of the camels nose into the tent. They go after them because not only have they been used in shootings, shootings that did not use them are not hawked by the press as much, but also because they look “scary.” Thanks to Hollywood most people have no idea of the real capabilities and limitations of a true assault rifle let alone a modern sporting rifle that looks like a military arm. So they are easily demonized. The goal, as with the ozone hole BS, was not to solve any real problem but to establish the method for seizing more control and power and condition people into giving up rights and power without complaint. As soon as they outlaw evil assault weapons they will point out that it had no effect on gun deaths, so they will move on to hand guns, and then to all guns.

Same approach as Obamacare. Screw up the healthcare system and create massive disruption and problems, then blame the Republicans and the insurance companies and capitalism for the problems, sigh and say we tried to help you, but failed because of all these evil people and companies, so we just have to nationalize healthcare to single payer.

What they claim to want to do is never the end state, just the first nibble at the elephant they want to devour.

:clap:

Standing :clap:
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#45 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 11:10 PM

View Postscotsman, on 12 January 2019 - 03:36 PM, said:

Because our politicians have much less grasp of guns than yours. And that's saying summat.



Mr Nail, meet Mr Head.


Hard to believe, but it's hard to argue it isn't true. Sad thing is there are plenty of people who believe these idiots.

For what it's worth.....
Japan it is legal to own a firearm. Many Japanese think it's illegal for an average person to own any type of gun. Truth is it's just extremely expensive and restricted. People think this is why Japan has such a low crime rate. Nope, there is largely two factors.
First being that criminal behavior and laziness is neither tolerated nor rewarded. Hell, boy band members have been kicked out and seen their careers go up in smoke(pun intended) for being caught with Cigarettes.

Second, prison isn't about rehabilitation. It's about punishment and discipline. Imagine every single day like Basic training. LITERALLY.
In the U.S. recidivism is tracked at three years, Japan 5. In all crime categories (except sex crimes where it's about the same) recidivism is less than half that of the U.S. And, short of the death penalty the longest sentence you can get is seven years. I am not sure if they have life sentences. I don't think so, or at least it's not very common.

One thing I do like about most Japanese people when it comes to guns they at least have an open mind and are willing to listen and learn. This past July when I was showing photos of different firearms I cleared up a number of misconceptions my in laws had. Not their fault per sei, when your only teacher is Hollywood your education is going to be utter crap.

Oki
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#46 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 11:13 PM

View PostSeverian, on 12 January 2019 - 12:03 PM, said:

“Assault weapons” are just the tip of the camels nose into the tent. They go after them because not only have they been used in shootings, shootings that did not use them are not hawked by the press as much, but also because they look “scary.” Thanks to Hollywood most people have no idea of the real capabilities and limitations of a true assault rifle let alone a modern sporting rifle that looks like a military arm. So they are easily demonized. The goal, as with the ozone hole BS, was not to solve any real problem but to establish the method for seizing more control and power and condition people into giving up rights and power without complaint. As soon as they outlaw evil assault weapons they will point out that it had no effect on gun deaths, so they will move on to hand guns, and then to all guns.

Same approach as Obamacare. Screw up the healthcare system and create massive disruption and problems, then blame the Republicans and the insurance companies and capitalism for the problems, sigh and say we tried to help you, but failed because of all these evil people and companies, so we just have to nationalize healthcare to single payer.

What they claim to want to do is never the end state, just the first nibble at the elephant they want to devour.


To those who think this isn't happening here already. First comes a law limiting ownership, or you can own it but need to register it. Then, comes bans and threat of imprisonment if you don't destroy or turn it in. Anyone who thinks this isn't happening... do the names New York, California, or Maryland ring any bells? They should be blowing your ear drums out because that is exactly what is happening in those states.

Oki
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#47 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 11:14 PM

View Postgrimreefer, on 12 January 2019 - 01:28 AM, said:

Yeah, I'm trying to figure the reasoning behind that too since a semi-auto shotgun would be far more devastating in a crowd than most semi-auto rifles, even with "just" shot shells. :blink:


When those who know nothing about guns get to make the laws concerning use and ownership nothing will make sense except to those who are just as or even more ignorant.

Oki
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#48 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 11:20 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 12 January 2019 - 03:37 AM, said:

Meh, don't look for "reasoning" behind gun laws/restrictions/bans/"control"/etc. Regardless whether we're talking about Europe, America, UK or pretty much anywhere else, aren't most gun "control" laws pushed by the people with the least knowledge of, and experience with, guns? People with irrational fears thereof? In other words, hoplophobes? You're not gonna discover a whole lot of "reason" from that bunch.

B)


You have three types of people who are anti gun.

1. Those who are afraid of them.
2. Those who see them as a threat to their power.
3. Those who are ignorant of facts and cannot or will not think logically.

At least some people who are afraid will admit this and are open to learning. My wife used to be, know it's meh what ever when she sees one.

Oki
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