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#21 User is offline   NH Populist 

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Posted 23 February 2019 - 07:44 AM

And here's what the "Project" eventually hopes to accomplish I suppose. Looks like a giant step backwards to me...https://www.jesus-our-blessed-hope.com/uploads/8/7/5/0/87500100/10-25-16-girls-marry-men_orig.png

This post has been edited by NH Populist: 23 February 2019 - 07:46 AM

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#22 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 23 February 2019 - 10:29 AM

View PostNoclevermoniker, on 23 February 2019 - 12:23 AM, said:

Just stay away from kids, mkay?

That’s the best response to Timothy. “Reason” and “evidence” don’t work with him. He’d rather defend a pedo than admit that a conservative was right.
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#23 User is offline   Timothy 

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Posted 23 February 2019 - 03:46 PM

View PostTicked@TinselTown, on 22 February 2019 - 07:31 PM, said:

In Romeo and Juliet, the families involved lived in the Middle Ages until Shakespeare brought them into the 16th century where the average lifespan was 55. That kind of life expectancy no longer exists in the modern world so that's a useless point and it shouldn't be validated as an acceptable excuse.

First, it's not an "excuse", just an example to illustrate my point about changes over time.

Second, it has varied between times and places in ways that don't always correlate to life expectancy. Life expectancy may be a factor but it is not the only one.

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Further, the 'Me Too' movement is pushed by people who don't care about the actual problems involving sexual assault, they care about a political agenda which is an entirely different thing.

A significant number of Democrats and people on the left have gotten caught up in it and forced to resign.

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NAMBLA has been clicking right along for decades spewing out their toxic garbage about man/boy love and people have been appalled that their garbage continues to get churned out while they hide behind the First Amendment,

As you said, decades. It's not new.

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yet what they are espousing is exactly what the new textbooks in public schools are espousing, sexual experimentation to see what feels good so that there are no boundaries as long as it feels good and whoever makes them feel good doesn't matter when it's all about the search for self discovery.

When have public schools espoused experimentation with children or doing it to anyone without their consent?

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And remember that ADULTS are teaching these young children from these books about masturbation and sexual experimentation with their classmates as something entirely acceptable, which opens the door to pedophilia in the public schoolroom and removes any pesky issues about consent.

"with their classmates" being the key part. Like it or not adolescents have very strong sexual urges and many/most are going to explore those urges. If they don't teach it in school they are going to get it somewhere, their friends, the internet, etc. Teaching people what is appropriate is a good way to help them distinguish between what is appropriate and what is inappropriate. It has been demonstrated time and time again that teaching "abstinence only" doesn't work and leads to riskier behavior (like not using protection.) Supporters of abstinence-only education are burying their heads in the sand.

The slippery slope argument about pedophilia is pure speculation about what might happen.

View Postgrimreefer, on 23 February 2019 - 12:02 AM, said:

Apparently you haven't been paying attention or just don't care. What kind of consent can a five year old give to be declared transsexual and started off on "the process" and chemically castrated by age eight? People are using children as some kind of sick fashion statement by declaring them gay or transsexual at single digit ages... but that's okay I guess because Juliet was only thirteen. There is a new modern trend to sexualize children and you're blind if you can't see it.

I haven't decided exactly where I stand on that issue, but gender identity and sexuality are two different things. And we're talking about how the child feels and needs, very different than talking about an adult having a sexual relationship with a child.

View PostLeansToTheRight, on 22 February 2019 - 11:55 PM, said:

First, we don’t know the age of Romeo because Shakespeare never says. A lot can be inferred from various lines in the play that Romeo is anywhere from same age as Juliet (explicitly written as “not quite fourteen”) to maybe 18. The clear references to their immaturity, leads many to believe Romeo somewhere between 13-16. There is no evidence anywhere that Shakespeare had Romeo anywhere near 25. That’s just preposterous. Even the Arthur Brooks poem of similar story that predates Shakespeares work references Romeo (Romeus) as having a “tender chin” that hasn’t yet grown a beard. So Romeo is very likely 13, but possibly as old as 16. 18 is plausible but a stretch.

2nd, 13 wasn’t a common age to get married in Shakespeare’s day - at least not in England. It was more like late teens and early 20s, not too different from today.

I saw the number 25 somewhere but I don't really know so I'll concede that point.

As for the point about England, "common" isn't necessarily the same as "accepted". Looking through various articles on the subject, it seems to have varied where you were in Europe and what century it was.

View Postzurg, on 23 February 2019 - 10:29 AM, said:

That’s the best response to Timothy. “Reason” and “evidence” don’t work with him. He’d rather defend a pedo than admit that a conservative was right.

How am I "defending a pedo"? I normally brush off your ubiquitous use of strawman arguments but this one is serious and goes to far. If you make an accusation like that you better be able to back it up and defend it.
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#24 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 23 February 2019 - 04:06 PM

View PostTimothy, on 23 February 2019 - 03:46 PM, said:

How am I "defending a pedo"? I normally brush off your ubiquitous use of strawman arguments but this one is serious and goes to far. If you make an accusation like that you better be able to back it up and defend it.

My statement was “he’d rather defend a pedo than admit a conservative was right”.

You have NEVER admitted that a conservative was right (and thus you, wrong) that I know of.

Do you even understand what that means?
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#25 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 23 February 2019 - 05:19 PM

View PostTimothy, on 22 February 2019 - 07:12 PM, said:

And there are trends you can point to that speculatively push the other direction. Looking at a longer period of time, the age where someone is considered to be "grown-up" and eligible to marry used to be lower. In Romeo and Juliet Romeo is 25 and Juliet is 13. Second, there is the "me too" movement and the increased focus on sexual assaults and consent.


In the Shakespeare version, Juliet is two weeks shy of 14. Shakespeare doesn't specify Romeo's age but the implication is probably 16-18. He carries a sword which would imply at least 16; someone under 16 would not likely be carrying a sword for fear of being drafted by a press-gang. But he also has a "clean/smooth chin" (I forget exactly how it was worded), which would imply not much more than 18.

He is definitely "considerably" older than Juliet. Part of what makes it a Tragedy is that throughout the play Romeo makes various "immature" decisions AS IF he was the same 13/14 YO as Juliet; It's not a tragedy for a 13/14 YO to be making 13/14-ish decisions, bit it IS a tragedy for a draftable-age 16 to 18 YO to be making the same decisions.

It worth noting that that the presumption of a 3-ish year age difference is the basis of many states' so-called "Romeo and Juliet" laws, in which the concept of statutory rape - a/k/a "16 will get you 20" - doesn't apply if there's a 3 year or less age difference.


I'm not so old that I don't remember that, at THAT age, a few years either way DOES make a difference. When you're a 9th or 10th grade boy in HS, suddenly 7th or 8th grade girls in Junior High seem like "kids"... but if you can score a date with an 11th or 12th grader, it's the HS equivalent of standing on the olympic podium getting a bronze, silver, AND gold medal. And, no, I never did that. But in 9th grade I did once get kissed by a 10th grade girl. I suspect that someone dared her to do it.
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#26 User is offline   Ticked@TinselTown 

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Posted 23 February 2019 - 09:32 PM

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First, it's not an "excuse", just an example to illustrate my point about changes over time.

Second, it has varied between times and places in ways that don't always correlate to life expectancy. Life expectancy may be a factor but it is not the only one.

It is used as an excuse for unacceptable sexual relationships between underaged and adult aged partners, therefore it is IS an excuse because without this kind of crap justification, people know that these sexual relationships are NOT acceptable.

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A significant number of Democrats and people on the left have gotten caught up in it and forced to resign.

That's because they have openly espoused that there are different laws of morality and conduct for them and for the rest of us, and they have lived that lifestyle to the fullest, and it has finally caught up with them because they have no shame and no moral compass.

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As you said, decades. It's not new.

Just because they have been around awhile spewing their vile garbage does NOT make it acceptable on ANY level, except when people like you shrug off what they stand for with the ' well, it's been going on for so long, it's not new, so what difference does it make?' The POINT is that what they espouse is WRONG and it should NOT be allowed to go mainstream.

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When have public schools espoused experimentation with children or doing it to anyone without their consent?

There was a very long thread on here about the public school curriculum that was being implemented to encourage sexual experimentation between children as young as 5 and 6, taught by teachers and teaching assistants from the colleges earning course credits. The fact that a program like that was even SUGGESTED is obscene.


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"with their classmates" being the key part. Like it or not adolescents have very strong sexual urges and many/most are going to explore those urges. If they don't teach it in school they are going to get it somewhere, their friends, the internet, etc. Teaching people what is appropriate is a good way to help them distinguish between what is appropriate and what is inappropriate. It has been demonstrated time and time again that teaching "abstinence only" doesn't work and leads to riskier behavior (like not using protection.) Supporters of abstinence-only education are burying their heads in the sand.

The slippery slope argument about pedophilia is pure speculation about what might happen.


So are you saying that adolescents that want to do with a 5 year old should be allowed to proceed?

Adolescents exploring with adolescents is the normal course of the maturing process.

Adolescents going after first graders to indulge their sexual curiosity is NOT normal.

Adolescents engaging in sexual experimentation with adults is NOT acceptable.

Teaching abstinence should be part of the curriculum along with all forms of birth control, especially those that help in the prevention of STD's that cannot be cured and can be deadly, because adults DO know that adolescents have a lot of pent up sexual curiosity and hormones in a rage.

Encouraging small children to engage in sexual contact to 'desensitize' them to the fact that sex shouldn't be considered for exercise purposes only, which is what they want to do.

They want children to think that sex is no big deal, that it's just fine to do it with anyone at any time without any sort of relationship in play, just do it because it feels good.

Oh, and that bilge you spew about the slippery slope? It wasn't so very long ago that NOBODY believed that incest was acceptable because it is an obscenity and yet now incest is LEGAL in New Jersey.

And, of course, you'll say it's only in one state, ignoring the larger and more dangerous point that it should NOT be legal in ANY STATE.
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#27 User is offline   ilja 

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Posted 23 February 2019 - 11:27 PM

View PostBARman29, on 22 February 2019 - 11:34 AM, said:

Slippery slope? Nah, doesn't exist, we were told. I remember threads into the hundreds debating the point. And yet, here we are.

Oh yeah, I remember many a times I was told to shut-up about abortion because now wasn't the time. Terrorism was too important and stopping the killing of innocent babies could wait until later.

Is it time yet? Or do I still need to shut up for the Deep State wars?

I guess if you can kill them what's stopping anything else?

Sign me a one issue not-surprised voter!
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#28 User is offline   Timothy 

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 01:32 PM

View Postzurg, on 23 February 2019 - 04:06 PM, said:

My statement was “he’d rather defend a pedo than admit a conservative was right”.

You have NEVER admitted that a conservative was right (and thus you, wrong) that I know of.

Do you even understand what that means?

1) So if you're not saying I am "defending a pedo", why bring it up at all? In either case you are asserting, without evidence, that I am willing to "defend a pedo".

2) What does admitting a conservative was right on something have anything to do with this thread?

3) I can't remember any instances of you admitting that a liberal was right. You know what they say about people in glass houses...

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 23 February 2019 - 05:19 PM, said:

In the Shakespeare version, Juliet is two weeks shy of 14. Shakespeare doesn't specify Romeo's age but the implication is probably 16-18. He carries a sword which would imply at least 16; someone under 16 would not likely be carrying a sword for fear of being drafted by a press-gang. But he also has a "clean/smooth chin" (I forget exactly how it was worded), which would imply not much more than 18.

He is definitely "considerably" older than Juliet. Part of what makes it a Tragedy is that throughout the play Romeo makes various "immature" decisions AS IF he was the same 13/14 YO as Juliet; It's not a tragedy for a 13/14 YO to be making 13/14-ish decisions, bit it IS a tragedy for a draftable-age 16 to 18 YO to be making the same decisions.

It worth noting that that the presumption of a 3-ish year age difference is the basis of many states' so-called "Romeo and Juliet" laws, in which the concept of statutory rape - a/k/a "16 will get you 20" - doesn't apply if there's a 3 year or less age difference.

Fair enough.

I haven't read it since Middle School, so I'm hazy on the details. Never was a fan of Shakespear, but I also haven't made the attempt as an adult so maybe I'd see more in it now.

Quote

I'm not so old that I don't remember that, at THAT age, a few years either way DOES make a difference. When you're a 9th or 10th grade boy in HS, suddenly 7th or 8th grade girls in Junior High seem like "kids"... but if you can score a date with an 11th or 12th grader, it's the HS equivalent of standing on the olympic podium getting a bronze, silver, AND gold medal. And, no, I never did that. But in 9th grade I did once get kissed by a 10th grade girl. I suspect that someone dared her to do it.

I agree.

View PostTicked@TinselTown, on 23 February 2019 - 09:32 PM, said:

It is used as an excuse for unacceptable sexual relationships between underaged and adult aged partners, therefore it is IS an excuse because without this kind of crap justification, people know that these sexual relationships are NOT acceptable.

I wasn't using it as an excuse, other people using it as an excuse is irrelevant to my point.

Quote

That's because they have openly espoused that there are different laws of morality and conduct for them and for the rest of us, and they have lived that lifestyle to the fullest, and it has finally caught up with them because they have no shame and no moral compass.

A lot of it is people on the left going after other people on the left. That doesn't fit your description.

Quote

Just because they have been around awhile spewing their vile garbage does NOT make it acceptable on ANY level, except when people like you shrug off what they stand for with the ' well, it's been going on for so long, it's not new, so what difference does it make?' The POINT is that what they espouse is WRONG and it should NOT be allowed to go mainstream.

I agree that it should not be allowed to go mainstream. It is vile garbage but as you said earlier, it is protected by the first amendment. The point about it not being new is it doesn't fit into the attempt by some people to characterize it as a progression from the recent shift in social views on gay marriage and other issues.

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There was a very long thread on here about the public school curriculum that was being implemented to encourage sexual experimentation between children as young as 5 and 6, taught by teachers and teaching assistants from the colleges earning course credits. The fact that a program like that was even SUGGESTED is obscene.

Again, this is not the same as encouraging sexual relationships between adults and children (or adolescent and pre-adolescent children).

Quote

So are you saying that adolescents that want to do with a 5 year old should be allowed to proceed?

No. Classmates = People at the same or very close in age.

Quote

Adolescents exploring with adolescents is the normal course of the maturing process.

Adolescents going after first graders to indulge their sexual curiosity is NOT normal.

Adolescents engaging in sexual experimentation with adults is NOT acceptable.

Agreed.

Quote

Teaching abstinence should be part of the curriculum along with all forms of birth control, especially those that help in the prevention of STD's that cannot be cured and can be deadly, because adults DO know that adolescents have a lot of pent up sexual curiosity and hormones in a rage.

Agreed.

Quote

Encouraging small children to engage in sexual contact to 'desensitize' them to the fact that sex shouldn't be considered for exercise purposes only, which is what they want to do.

They want children to think that sex is no big deal, that it's just fine to do it with anyone at any time without any sort of relationship in play, just do it because it feels good.

I can't comment on this without seeing the specifics of what you are referring to.

Quote

Oh, and that bilge you spew about the slippery slope? It wasn't so very long ago that NOBODY believed that incest was acceptable because it is an obscenity and yet now incest is LEGAL in New Jersey.

And, of course, you'll say it's only in one state, ignoring the larger and more dangerous point that it should NOT be legal in ANY STATE.

And it is also seperate from the issue of pedophilia.
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#29 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 02:49 PM

View PostTimothy, on 24 February 2019 - 01:32 PM, said:

1) So if you're not saying I am "defending a pedo", why bring it up at all? In either case you are asserting, without evidence, that I am willing to "defend a pedo".

2) What does admitting a conservative was right on something have anything to do with this thread?

I didn’t say you ARE defending a pedo. I said you’d rather defend a pedo than admit a conservative was right. Meaning, should it come to the point where you’d have to either do one or two, you’d do one.

If you can’t understand that statement’s relevance in this context, I can’t help you - it’s obvious.
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#30 User is offline   Severian 

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 04:13 PM

View PostLeansToTheRight, on 22 February 2019 - 11:55 PM, said:

Even the Arthur Brooks poem of similar story that predates Shakespeares work references Romeo (Romeus) as having a “tender chin” that hasn’t yet grown a beard. So Romeo is very likely 13, but possibly as old as 16. 18 is plausible but a stretch.



So, he was a Millennial hipster, trying to grow a goatee but failing?
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#31 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 05:50 PM

View PostSeverian, on 24 February 2019 - 04:13 PM, said:

So, he was a Millennial hipster, trying to grow a goatee but failing?


https://assets.popbuzz.com/2016/07/justin-bieber-1455620560-list-handheld-0.png
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