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#41 User is offline   AntonToo 

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Posted 20 February 2019 - 04:31 PM

View Postzurg, on 20 February 2019 - 08:54 AM, said:

Is that why you only consider tax collections by the US Treasury when evaluating how the economy and the people are doing?

Is that why you ignore gains in the private sector when analyzing the efficacy of an economic policy?

(I know you wonít answer, but this isnít really for you but any non-socialist who isnít drinking your poison.)


https://media.giphy.com/media/wIxBzHWegpOUM/giphy.gif

Where hell did you pull this nonsence out of??? There was not a single post by me making ANY judgement on how "the economy and the people are doing". You just made that up, as you usually do.

This thread is about revenues and how Trump's tax-cuts effect them. You can think that economy is doing great, you can think economy is doing horrible, you can like Trump, you can not like Trump. Doesn't change the fact that data shows a reduction in revenues (and by extension increase in national debt) as a result of the tax-cutting.


You don't think running trillion dollar deficits is a big deal so long economy is doing good? Well then why don't we just double up on that and stop collecting any taxes at all...untill of course the interest rates shoot up or country defaults and we have a Great Recession 2 on our hands as a result. We wouldn't be doing GREAT then would we?
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#42 User is offline   Joe the Pagan 

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Posted 20 February 2019 - 06:46 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 19 February 2019 - 05:38 PM, said:

I love reading this thread. NOT because I'm some kinda number-crunching financial expert. (Hell, if I was I wouldn't be so poor, LOL.)

No, it's because it's such a perfect illustration of old sayings like: "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics"...and..."Figures don't lie, but liars figure"...and so forth.

Anton, you and the others keep throwing numbers back and forth and I don't pretend they mean much to me. Numbers, percentages, decimal points, letters, GDP, PDQ, FYS, WTF, LOL. Here's what I know about numbers: Write the number 5319009 on a piece of paper. Now turn the paper upside-down. See? It says "boobies", LOL.

HERE'S how I know the economy is doing well: I leave my home and go places occasionally. You should try it sometime. Go outside. Find some fellow humans. Talk to them. Go to a store and buy stuff like other people buy. Go to a gas station. A bowling alley. A bar. See for yourself how much better people are doing.

It's really not difficult.

B)



I know a locomotive engineer. He was a life-long Democrat, but is now a big Trump supporter, and is not ashamed to say so. He uses the length of his train as an economic indicator. The longer his train the better the economy. The railroad keeps adding cars to his train.
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#43 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 20 February 2019 - 07:19 PM

View PostAntonToo, on 20 February 2019 - 04:31 PM, said:

https://media.giphy.com/media/wIxBzHWegpOUM/giphy.gif

Where hell did you pull this nonsence out of??? There was not a single post by me making ANY judgement on how "the economy and the people are doing". You just made that up, as you usually do.

This thread is about revenues and how Trump's tax-cuts effect them. You can think that economy is doing great, you can think economy is doing horrible, you can like Trump, you can not like Trump. Doesn't change the fact that data shows a reduction in revenues (and by extension increase in national debt) as a result of the tax-cutting.


You don't think running trillion dollar deficits is a big deal so long economy is doing good? Well then why don't we just double up on that and stop collecting any taxes at all...untill of course the interest rates shoot up or country defaults and we have a Great Recession 2 on our hands as a result. We wouldn't be doing GREAT then would we?

Your statement was that due to the Trump tax cuts, the US Treasury is pulling in less tax revenue, AND you said itís a BAD THING.

So, the next step is to explain why that is a bad thing, if people are privately better off. Which you never did. You ignored it.

So, what do you want to talk about next?
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#44 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 20 February 2019 - 07:41 PM

View PostJoe the Pagan, on 20 February 2019 - 06:46 PM, said:

I know a locomotive engineer. He was a life-long Democrat, but is now a big Trump supporter, and is not ashamed to say so. He uses the length of his train as an economic indicator. The longer his train the better the economy. The railroad keeps adding cars to his train.


Yeah, I know several ex-Democrats too.

:yes:
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#45 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 10:44 AM

View PostAntonToo, on 20 February 2019 - 04:31 PM, said:

https://media.giphy.com/media/wIxBzHWegpOUM/giphy.gif

Where hell did you pull this nonsence out of??? There was not a single post by me making ANY judgement on how "the economy and the people are doing". You just made that up, as you usually do.

This thread is about revenues and how Trump's tax-cuts effect them. You can think that economy is doing great, you can think economy is doing horrible, you can like Trump, you can not like Trump. Doesn't change the fact that data shows a reduction in revenues (and by extension increase in national debt) as a result of the tax-cutting.


You don't think running trillion dollar deficits is a big deal so long economy is doing good? Well then why don't we just double up on that and stop collecting any taxes at all...untill of course the interest rates shoot up or country defaults and we have a Great Recession 2 on our hands as a result. We wouldn't be doing GREAT then would we?



Hey Sunshine, are revenues up or down for 2017 vs 2019? Up or down... up or down. You have a 50/50 chance of getting it right.
Is unemployment up or down vs 2016... up or down... you have a 50/50 chance of getting it right.
Is Labor Force Participation rate up or down vs 2009-2016 or 17... up or down... up or down... you have a 50/50 chance of getting it right.

Give you a hint... the answer is the same for all three.

Oki
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#46 User is online   JerryL 

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 11:02 AM

View Postoki, on 21 February 2019 - 10:44 AM, said:

Hey Sunshine, are revenues up or down for 2017 vs 2019? Up or down... up or down. You have a 50/50 chance of getting it right.
Is unemployment up or down vs 2016... up or down... you have a 50/50 chance of getting it right.
Is Labor Force Participation rate up or down vs 2009-2016 or 17... up or down... up or down... you have a 50/50 chance of getting it right.

Give you a hint... the answer is the same for all three.

Oki

Aren't two of them Up and one Down?
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#47 User is offline   AntonToo 

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 11:13 AM

View Postzurg, on 20 February 2019 - 07:19 PM, said:

Your statement was that due to the Trump tax cuts, the US Treasury is pulling in less tax revenue, AND you said it’s a BAD THING.

So, the next step is to explain why that is a bad thing, if people are privately better off. Which you never did. You ignored it.

So, what do you want to talk about next?


Zurg buddy comeon, help me out here....I'm running out of facepalm memes.


Us Treasury pulling in less revenue while we are running deep deficits in an otherwise healthy economy is a BAD THING that results directly in more debt. DUH.
You know what happens to deep deficits we are running now if an economic slowdown hits? They become a VERY VERY BAD THING that will take drastic contractionary measures to fix.

We have obvious long term fiscal problems and instead of doing anything about it we are excerbating them with yet another round of stimulating in the middle of a full employment economy. It's all about the politics of now and it will land us is deep sht long term.

This post has been edited by AntonToo: 21 February 2019 - 11:14 AM

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#48 User is offline   RedSoloCup 

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 12:13 PM

View PostAntonToo, on 20 February 2019 - 04:31 PM, said:

https://media.giphy.com/media/wIxBzHWegpOUM/giphy.gif

Where hell did you pull this nonsence out of??? There was not a single post by me making ANY judgement on how "the economy and the people are doing". You just made that up, as you usually do.

This thread is about revenues and how Trump's tax-cuts effect them. You can think that economy is doing great, you can think economy is doing horrible, you can like Trump, you can not like Trump. Doesn't change the fact that data shows a reduction in revenues (and by extension increase in national debt) as a result of the tax-cutting.


You don't think running trillion dollar deficits is a big deal so long economy is doing good? Well then why don't we just double up on that and stop collecting any taxes at all...untill of course the interest rates shoot up or country defaults and we have a Great Recession 2 on our hands as a result. We wouldn't be doing GREAT then would we?



Go away.

View PostAntonToo, on 21 February 2019 - 11:13 AM, said:

Zurg buddy comeon, help me out here....I'm running out of facepalm memes.


Us Treasury pulling in less revenue while we are running deep deficits in an otherwise healthy economy is a BAD THING that results directly in more debt. DUH.
You know what happens to deep deficits we are running now if an economic slowdown hits? They become a VERY VERY BAD THING that will take drastic contractionary measures to fix.

We have obvious long term fiscal problems and instead of doing anything about it we are excerbating them with yet another round of stimulating in the middle of a full employment economy. It's all about the politics of now and it will land us is deep sht long term.


:yawn:

This post has been edited by RedSoloCup: 21 February 2019 - 12:21 PM

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#49 User is offline   RedSoloCup 

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 12:16 PM

View PostSquirrel, on 20 February 2019 - 02:31 PM, said:

Following the site foreve, I donít care what anyone makes. But Anton whatís your % you pay in taxes? Normally from experience the people with your views are 0% group. Without telling your income you can answer that and if your in my tax group do you use an accountant? Have you ever taken deductions or better yet paid more then required? If yes or no why? Why not practice what you preach?


Simple. He's a leftist.

Each "ORANGE MAN BAD!!!!" post he makes, makes me even more happy for my vote for Trump.

This post has been edited by RedSoloCup: 21 February 2019 - 12:29 PM

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#50 User is offline   Noclevermoniker 

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 12:19 PM

View PostAntonToo, on 21 February 2019 - 11:13 AM, said:

Zurg buddy comeon, help me out here....I'm running out of facepalm memes.


Us Treasury pulling in less revenue while we are running deep deficits in an otherwise healthy economy is a BAD THING that results directly in more debt. DUH.
You know what happens to deep deficits we are running now if an economic slowdown hits? They become a VERY VERY BAD THING that will take drastic contractionary measures to fix.

We have obvious long term fiscal problems and instead of doing anything about it we are excerbating them with yet another round of stimulating in the middle of a full employment economy. It's all about the politics of now and it will land us is deep sht long term.

None of which you gave two schidts about during the reign of the Styrofoam Ceasar.

Back under your rock, Commie.
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#51 User is offline   RedSoloCup 

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 12:20 PM

View PostJoe the Pagan, on 20 February 2019 - 06:46 PM, said:

I know a locomotive engineer. He was a life-long Democrat, but is now a big Trump supporter, and is not ashamed to say so. He uses the length of his train as an economic indicator. The longer his train the better the economy. The railroad keeps adding cars to his train.


:clap:
He sure knows more about economics than someone else here does!
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#52 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 12:44 PM

View PostAntonToo, on 21 February 2019 - 11:13 AM, said:

Zurg buddy comeon, help me out here....I'm running out of facepalm memes.


Us Treasury pulling in less revenue while we are running deep deficits in an otherwise healthy economy is a BAD THING that results directly in more debt. DUH.
You know what happens to deep deficits we are running now if an economic slowdown hits? They become a VERY VERY BAD THING that will take drastic contractionary measures to fix.

We have obvious long term fiscal problems and instead of doing anything about it we are excerbating them with yet another round of stimulating in the middle of a full employment economy. It's all about the politics of now and it will land us is deep sht long term.



Yet again, are revenues up or down? I even saved you the trouble of posting a link on page two.
Do tell UP OR DOWN. In the voice of Mr. Rodgers, I know you can do it.

Oki
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#53 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 12:46 PM

View PostJerryL, on 21 February 2019 - 11:02 AM, said:

Aren't two of them Up and one Down?



Ooops. Meant to say Employment, my bad... But I shouldn't expect Anton to answer anything which makes Orange man and free market principles look good.


Oki
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#54 User is online   JerryL 

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 03:49 PM

View Postoki, on 21 February 2019 - 12:46 PM, said:

Ooops. Meant to say Employment, my bad... But I shouldn't expect Anton to answer anything which makes Orange man and free market principles look good.


Oki

Honest mistake!

Makes sense now.
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#55 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 04:46 PM

View PostAntonToo, on 21 February 2019 - 11:13 AM, said:

Zurg buddy comeon, help me out here....I'm running out of facepalm memes.


Us Treasury pulling in less revenue while we are running deep deficits in an otherwise healthy economy is a BAD THING that results directly in more debt. DUH.
You know what happens to deep deficits we are running now if an economic slowdown hits? They become a VERY VERY BAD THING that will take drastic contractionary measures to fix.

We have obvious long term fiscal problems and instead of doing anything about it we are excerbating them with yet another round of stimulating in the middle of a full employment economy. It's all about the politics of now and it will land us is deep sht long term.

So a little bit less revenue to the public entity with a lot more revenue to the private parties is a bad thing because....wait for it....because the public entity is so deep in debt. Thanks for clarifying that.

Now. Youíd really like to focus on how to reduce the deficit while a republican is calling the shots and making the economy go nice, so that, should your side happe to get the reigns again, you can go on a spending spree. Everyone knows how that works: you never were interested in discussing debt reduction when your guy was driving. Everyone can see thru that mirror of hypocrisy. Anyhow. There are two ways to reduce debt. One, increase the money being used to pay that debt. Two, reduce those payments that are above and beyond that debt, so that thereís money to pay down that debt.

Choice number two sounds more attractive. People are doing better so they donít need as much temporary assistance. Letís reduce the governmentís role as a third party payer. Thatíll work miracles not just in the short run but especially in the long run. Letís invest and use the principles of capitalism to multiply our financial return, rather than the principles of socialism to depress the economic engine, making everyoneís life harder, from the busboy to the CEO.

(I know youíll have trouble understanding that, because itís capitalism.)

This post has been edited by zurg: 21 February 2019 - 04:49 PM

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#56 User is offline   AntonToo 

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 09:55 PM

View Postzurg, on 21 February 2019 - 04:46 PM, said:

So a little bit less revenue to the public entity with a lot more revenue to the private parties


Ah yes, the magical overnight turning of $1 of taxes not paid into $2 in someone's pocket. How can I forget.


Is there seriously no conservative left at all to explain to Zurg why debt is bad?
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#57 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 10:00 PM

View PostAntonToo, on 15 February 2019 - 01:32 PM, said:

Time for reality:

In December revenues are AGAIN, down significantly compared to same period last year:

Dec 2017 (FY20) 326 Billion
Dec 2018 (FY19) 313 Billion

Thats an unadjusted reduction of 13 billion in revenue...but of course the real shortfall is ~25 Billion after you minimally adjust for expected inflation and baseline economic growth by just 4%.


Same applies for year-on-year comparison, but you must also exclude April because in April 2018 people settled 2017 year taxes at 2017 pre-taxcut rates.

When you do that due dilligence you see that revenues are are very singnificanty down.

NO surprizes, or magic free lunches here.


You really don't know what you are talking about do you, lets see how the pan out at the end of the year.
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#58 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 10:02 PM

https://www.thebalan...revenue-3305762
Seems to me like taxes have been steadily increasing year over year for the past 15 or so years. The problem is not taxes in, but spending out. Stop that side of the ledger and balance cost to revenue and we will have a budget.

This post has been edited by Taggart Transcontinental: 21 February 2019 - 10:03 PM

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#59 User is offline   Howsithangin 

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 10:20 PM

View PostAntonToo, on 21 February 2019 - 09:55 PM, said:

Is there seriously no conservative left at all to explain to Zurg why debt is bad?


So where were you from 2009-2016? As I recall you were trumpeting Barry's actions at every turn. And he doubled it.
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#60 User is offline   stick 

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 10:27 PM

View PostAntonToo, on 21 February 2019 - 09:55 PM, said:

Ah yes, the magical overnight turning of $1 of taxes not paid into $2 in someone's pocket. How can I forget.


That is TOTALLY not what he said. Where TF did you read anything close to that in that response let alone the cherry you picked to reply to?

:nono:

Quote

Is there seriously no conservative left at all to explain to Zurg why debt is bad?


Werent you the guy telling us why the O-bama Porkulus was a good idea when the economy was struggling (well, it was The Great Recession as I remember) and most of that money went down a ďshovel-readyĒ rat hole? You seemed to think debt was doubleplusgood then, what changed bro? Solyndra ring a bell? Abound Solar? Just how ARE all of those solar panel crony capital boondoggles O-bama stuck us with doing? HUH? Was that debt good?

F U buddy and your debt lecturing with a side of more sneering at Republicans while the track record you support is magnitudes worse at spending and economic matters in general.

:bye:
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