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#181 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 03:19 PM

View Postoki, on 08 November 2018 - 01:38 PM, said:

My reference is we choose to act on feelings, emotions, urges, impulses, we choose who to have a relationship, we choose how to act etc. Animals don't have this ability.

Oki


Animals DO have that ability. Ever seen a well-trained dog being told to sit & stay, even when somebody lays a big steak right in front of them? Or throws a ball? Or any of countless similar scenarios? Of course the dog's natural feeling/emotion/urge/impulse is to snatch that steak, chase that ball, etc. But if the dog is well-trained it won't move until the trainer gives him permission.

The same type of training can be done with cats, monkeys, bears, and more.

And in any case - Re: Gays - Sev's absolutely right. Having grown up in Seattle (with a gay community every bit as big as San Fran or Key West or anywhere else), plus having spent decades in the entertainment industry, naturally I've known lots of gays & lesbians. Not one of them ever "chose" to be gay. They are born that way. Sure, they can "choose" not to "act" on the impulses they are born with, but why on earth should they? Why shouldn't they be allowed to marry each other just like us straights are allowed to marry each other?

B)
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#182 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 03:51 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 08 November 2018 - 03:19 PM, said:

Animals DO have that ability. Ever seen a well-trained dog being told to sit & stay, even when somebody lays a big steak right in front of them? Or throws a ball? Or any of countless similar scenarios? Of course the dog's natural feeling/emotion/urge/impulse is to snatch that steak, chase that ball, etc. But if the dog is well-trained it won't move until the trainer gives him permission.

The same type of training can be done with cats, monkeys, bears, and more.

And in any case - Re: Gays - Sev's absolutely right. Having grown up in Seattle (with a gay community every bit as big as San Fran or Key West or anywhere else), plus having spent decades in the entertainment industry, naturally I've known lots of gays & lesbians. Not one of them ever "chose" to be gay. They are born that way. Sure, they can "choose" not to "act" on the impulses they are born with, but why on earth should they? Why shouldn't they be allowed to marry each other just like us straights are allowed to marry each other?

B)


Absolutely. I have also known a number of Gay people even have a couple neighbors who are that I am actually quite fond of.
I get that people are born one way or the other, impulses etc. But, a normal person chooses to act upon them and how.
Wild animals just act on them with little to no thought. A trained animal is to a point domesticated, but even then you can only train to a point.
As far as Gay marriage, my mane issue isn't so much in extending legal rights and protections. It's in forcing religious institutions or businesses to participate against their will or beliefs. Something we where promised would never happen.

Oki
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#183 User is offline   erp 

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 03:58 PM

 Ladybird, on 08 November 2018 - 01:37 PM, said:

Was it won by Lucy McBath? Itís an inspiring story that reminded me of Carolyn McCarthy, whose husband was killed in a senseless shooting as well.

Yes. She won due to changing demographics and a horrible campaign ran by Karen Handle. But mainly a horrible campaign ran by Handle.
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#184 User is offline   Severian 

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 05:53 PM

View Postoki, on 08 November 2018 - 03:51 PM, said:

Absolutely. I have also known a number of Gay people even have a couple neighbors who are that I am actually quite fond of.
I get that people are born one way or the other, impulses etc. But, a normal person chooses to act upon them and how.
Wild animals just act on them with little to no thought. A trained animal is to a point domesticated, but even then you can only train to a point.
As far as Gay marriage, my mane issue isn't so much in extending legal rights and protections. It's in forcing religious institutions or businesses to participate against their will or beliefs. Something we where promised would never happen.

Oki

So, just because you think they shouldn't "act" on their impulses, because you disagree with them? Sex is one of the strongest drives in the human animal, should they go forever celibate, and be denied the benefit of a relationship with another human, forgo that loving, close relationship that is so beneficial?

There is, to me, a major difference in the fact that I've found some underage girls immensely attractive (face it, a 15 or 16 year old can look like she's 18 or 19 with proper makeup and clothing) and due to society have chosen to not act on any impulses or invitations, vs. a gay person acting on same when the chosen partner is of legal age.
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#185 User is online   Buckwheat Jones 

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 06:34 PM

 Ladybird, on 07 November 2018 - 11:06 AM, said:

Anyone who has sex with children is deviant, whether they are Muslim, Christian, Jewish, or Hindu.

Okay. So if a belief system says child marriage is permissible does that make it a deviant belief system?

This post has been edited by Buckwheat Jones: 08 November 2018 - 07:14 PM

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#186 User is offline   GrimV 

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 07:47 PM

View PostLadybird, on 08 November 2018 - 02:19 PM, said:

A ballot initiative in Florida, which automatically re-enfranchised more than a million former felons was also approved.




"Re-enfranchised"?

Is that even a word? If so, now do 2nd Amendment rights for felons.

This post has been edited by GrimV: 08 November 2018 - 07:58 PM

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#187 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 08:34 PM

View PostSeverian, on 08 November 2018 - 05:53 PM, said:

So, just because you think they shouldn't "act" on their impulses, because you disagree with them? Sex is one of the strongest drives in the human animal, should they go forever celibate, and be denied the benefit of a relationship with another human, forgo that loving, close relationship that is so beneficial?

There is, to me, a major difference in the fact that I've found some underage girls immensely attractive (face it, a 15 or 16 year old can look like she's 18 or 19 with proper makeup and clothing) and due to society have chosen to not act on any impulses or invitations, vs. a gay person acting on same when the chosen partner is of legal age.



No, not it at all. Being able to control your impulses, urges, desires, NO MATTER your beliefs, orientation, or what not. Animals, especially wild and undomesticated cannot do this. Civilized humans are supposed to be able to. Not a matter of what I agree or disagree with, it's a matter of people acting like people. Thinking that being born one way or another means you are not in control (and maybe that's the word I should have used) of how you act, or what you choose to do is like saying a person is no better or different than a wild animal. This applies to all human beings.

Oki
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#188 User is offline   grimreefer 

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 11:36 PM

Wonderful... now Broward "Home of the Hanging Chad" county is pulling their election shenanigans in Florida again. :censored:
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