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Firefighter killed by drug suspect he just saved. Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 03:41 PM

https://michaelsavag...-he-just-saved/

Appleton is about a 30 minute drive from Green Bay, needless to say it has been a huge story in these parts.
One of heartbreak, but also of a community and people showing respect towards the fallen.

Highly recommend watching the video. ESPECIALLY those who think Cops usually act wrongly, or believe in the whole BLM etc etc.
It just shows you how fast things can change, and how people can conceal things and then suddenly be trying to kill you.


Oki
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#2 User is offline   Moderator T 

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 03:54 PM

I saw that video a while ago before it was announced the fire fighter died. Stuff like this happens too often, and I'm sure the bad guy's family will end up suing the police.
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#3 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 03:55 PM

View Postoki, on 17 June 2019 - 03:41 PM, said:

https://michaelsavag...-he-just-saved/

Appleton is about a 30 minute drive from Green Bay, needless to say it has been a huge story in these parts.
One of heartbreak, but also of a community and people showing respect towards the fallen.

Highly recommend watching the video. ESPECIALLY those who think Cops usually act wrongly, or believe in the whole BLM etc etc.
It just shows you how fast things can change, and how people can conceal things and then suddenly be trying to kill you.


Oki


Yup, just takes a split-second for everything to suddenly turn very serious. Millions of people just don't seem to grasp what a policeman might suddenly face in any situation involving the public.

B)
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#4 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 04:08 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 17 June 2019 - 03:55 PM, said:

Yup, just takes a split-second for everything to suddenly turn very serious. Millions of people just don't seem to grasp what a policeman might suddenly face in any situation involving the public.

B)



Good God yes. The link is the very condensed version and doesn't show for just how long the officer spoke with the man before he opened fire or how he tried to conceal everything.

These are the links and videos in full for the body cams of both Officers involved.

https://www.wbay.com...o?vid=511296072

https://www.wbay.com...o?vid=511296502

Highly recommend watching them. The condensed version just doesn't really give a person the entire scope.
All the cops where doing was trying to get the man to agree to go to the hospital to get checked out as they were concerned that once the Narcan wore of he would again go un conscious and die. PLUS, note at the end the restraint and even compassion they showed him, this after he just shot at them wounding one officer. But, to make things clear it is not believed the officers were aware that the firefighter had been killed.

Oki
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#5 User is offline   Severian 

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 06:27 PM

No good deed goes unpunished I guess, but it's a tragedy. A useful member of society like an firefighter/EMT dies because of a scumbag like this.
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#6 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 06:31 PM

View PostSeverian, on 17 June 2019 - 06:27 PM, said:

No good deed goes unpunished I guess, but it's a tragedy. A useful member of society like an firefighter/EMT dies because of a scumbag like this.


Hear hear.

<_<
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#7 User is online   Howsithangin 

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 11:40 PM

View PostSeverian, on 17 June 2019 - 06:27 PM, said:

No good deed goes unpunished I guess, but it's a tragedy. A useful member of society like an firefighter/EMT dies because of a scumbag like this.


I fully support accidents in holding cells for this reason
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#8 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 06:58 AM

View PostModerator T, on 17 June 2019 - 03:54 PM, said:

I saw that video a while ago before it was announced the fire fighter died. Stuff like this happens too often, and I'm sure the bad guy's family will end up suing the police.


Police have a right to frisk someone for weapons / pat them down. It's called a Terry Frisk, named after the guy that took it to court in the 70's. This guy was utterly suspicious, its obvious the second he stated he didn't want to be patted down. This crap is sickening. Oh and NARCAN to revive him? That means he used Fentanyl. Not making good decisions there.
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#9 User is offline   Moderator T 

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 08:22 AM

View PostTaggart Transcontinental, on 18 June 2019 - 06:58 AM, said:

Police have a right to frisk someone for weapons / pat them down. It's called a Terry Frisk, named after the guy that took it to court in the 70's. This guy was utterly suspicious, its obvious the second he stated he didn't want to be patted down. This crap is sickening.


All true.

Quote

Oh and NARCAN to revive him? That means he used Fentanyl. Not making good decisions there.


Or heroin, or oxy, or any number of opiates. All my officers carry Narcan now its so bad in our area.
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#10 User is offline   firecoco 

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 08:54 AM

View PostTaggart Transcontinental, on 18 June 2019 - 06:58 AM, said:

Police have a right to frisk someone for weapons / pat them down. It's called a Terry Frisk, named after the guy that took it to court in the 70's. This guy was utterly suspicious, its obvious the second he stated he didn't want to be patted down. This crap is sickening. Oh and NARCAN to revive him? That means he used Fentanyl. Not making good decisions there.

I've used NARCAN on a lot of heroin OD'S...And after you administer it step back because when they wake up they're not very happy that you ruined their high
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#11 User is offline   Tikk 

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 08:54 AM

View PostModerator T, on 18 June 2019 - 08:22 AM, said:

All true.



Or heroin, or oxy, or any number of opiates. All my officers carry Narcan now its so bad in our area.


Perhaps not carrying Narcan will help the problem take care of itself.
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#12 User is offline   RedSoloCup 

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 09:05 AM

View PostHowsithangin, on 17 June 2019 - 11:40 PM, said:

I fully support accidents in holding cells for this reason


:yeahthat:

The Eric Garner method.
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#13 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 09:08 AM

View PostTaggart Transcontinental, on 18 June 2019 - 06:58 AM, said:

Police have a right to frisk someone for weapons / pat them down. It's called a Terry Frisk, named after the guy that took it to court in the 70's. This guy was utterly suspicious, its obvious the second he stated he didn't want to be patted down. This crap is sickening. Oh and NARCAN to revive him? That means he used Fentanyl. Not making good decisions there.


In hi insight about the only change the Appleton Wisconsin PD can come up with to the whole thing is to recommend Officers to a basic pat down to an un conscious person prior or during revival process.
No one is faulting either Officer, the firefighter or anyone else as not only did they follow procedure, incredible patience and self control from both officers. As bad as it ended it is in no way shape or form the fault of either officer. As for the people who scream about de escalation training, or such. The Cop had the training and used it. The P.O.S. very much decided to he was going to shoot it out. He kept saying it was his cell phone knowing full well it was a pistol in his pocket and gave the Officers the impression he was reaching for his cell phone. I think that's why they where caught off guard. For what it's worth though the P.O.S. died later at the hospital. The Appleton P.D. had a live press conference this past Thursday where they literally walked through everything and did a very detailed explanation/analysis. From the one body cam you see the firefighter go down. At first it looks like the guy is diving for cover and that's probably what the officers thought, but it is believed he was hit at this point. Notice how this hasn't been a national news story? Then again those Officers did everything right, didn't escalate, and at the end showed incredible discipline and even compassion. Can't have that on national news for a couple nights know can we?


Oki
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#14 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 08:34 PM

View PostModerator T, on 18 June 2019 - 08:22 AM, said:

All true.

Or heroin, or oxy, or any number of opiates. All my officers carry Narcan now its so bad in our area.


Can be all of those things, but the reality is it's probably Fentanyl, simply because it's the most abundant and the one that knocks people out the hardest. I have my auto dispenser in my first aid kit.
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#15 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 08:36 PM

View Postoki, on 18 June 2019 - 09:08 AM, said:

In hi insight about the only change the Appleton Wisconsin PD can come up with to the whole thing is to recommend Officers to a basic pat down to an un conscious person prior or during revival process.
No one is faulting either Officer, the firefighter or anyone else as not only did they follow procedure, incredible patience and self control from both officers. As bad as it ended it is in no way shape or form the fault of either officer. As for the people who scream about de escalation training, or such. The Cop had the training and used it. The P.O.S. very much decided to he was going to shoot it out. He kept saying it was his cell phone knowing full well it was a pistol in his pocket and gave the Officers the impression he was reaching for his cell phone. I think that's why they where caught off guard. For what it's worth though the P.O.S. died later at the hospital. The Appleton P.D. had a live press conference this past Thursday where they literally walked through everything and did a very detailed explanation/analysis. From the one body cam you see the firefighter go down. At first it looks like the guy is diving for cover and that's probably what the officers thought, but it is believed he was hit at this point. Notice how this hasn't been a national news story? Then again those Officers did everything right, didn't escalate, and at the end showed incredible discipline and even compassion. Can't have that on national news for a couple nights know can we?


Oki


I almost broke an old mans collar bone for much the same crap, we are talking to him and he kept going into a pocket. So we told him to stop and he did it again. So I grabbed his wrist and held it down so he couldn't pull anything out. My FTO was kind of pissed I laid hands on him like that but in the end hell with it. You want to be a defiant bunghole you will get more than me grabbing your wrist, you will probably get a few 9mm slugs for good measure.
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#16 User is offline   AntiObama 

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 10:14 PM

He should have all of his skin ripped off his body.
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