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#1 User is offline   Coach 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 01:29 PM

One of the best courses I took in college was the History of the Westward Movement. About 80% of the reading material was original sources but there were a few historical novels as well. One was "Giants In The Earth" by O. E. Rolvaag. It is set in 1880's North Dakota and provides eye opening descriptions of life and the perils faced by the Nordic settlers.

I post this because of the usual hysteria over the Arctic vortex as covered by cable news. We better hope global cooling isn't beginning.
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#2 User is offline   Hieronymous 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 01:54 PM

I lived in Detroit in 2013 and there was a polar vortex then that lasted a couple weeks. It was the worst winter there since records were kept. Winter is something I tolerated and occasionally enjoyed, but it is more fun to watch the natives in places like Tucson or San Diego bundle up when the mercury only touches 60 :D

This post has been edited by Hieronymous: 30 January 2019 - 01:54 PM

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#3 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 02:08 PM

It's 3 here and dropping by the hour.
(Wind chill is minus 20)

This post has been edited by Ladybird: 30 January 2019 - 02:58 PM

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#4 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 02:48 PM

View PostHieronymous, on 30 January 2019 - 01:54 PM, said:

I lived in Detroit in 2013 and there was a polar vortex then that lasted a couple weeks. It was the worst winter there since records were kept. Winter is something I tolerated and occasionally enjoyed, but it is more fun to watch the natives in places like Tucson or San Diego bundle up when the mercury only touches 60 :D


I got caught in the "Great Lakes Blizzard of '99". Visiting relative just N of Detroit near Lake Orion, on break from an Oil Refinery project in Sarnia ON about an hour away. As I recall it was 2 or 3 days for Detroit Airport to get back to normal which is highly unusual for them though it didn't really affect me. In comparison, this current cold spell had DTW shut down for a mere 14 hours.

Coldest I've ever been? Green River Wyoming in January of '92 (And if I ever meet the S.O.B that named the place "green" river...) Not much snow to speak of but oh, the wind, way out in the middle of "High Plains Desert" with no hills or trees to break it up. I don't recall the actual temperature but do remember it being said that with wind chill it was -30 F. I took along a souvenir Russian fur hat as a joke, and I'm glad I did; that cold weather was no joke. Step out the door, and it just takes your breath away.

EtA: Ever see steel "freeze" and become brittle? I have, on the green river project. I needed to loosen a bolt to adjust on intake damper to an industrial burner that was drawing outside air. There was a 9/16 craftsman wrench that someone had left outside near the damper. Heck, maybe *I* left it there. I run outside, pick up the wrench in my (gloved) hand, go to loosen the bolt and with only moderate torque the wrench just snapped in half in my hand.


When I got back, I complained to the boss about getting sent to such cold places in mother-freakin' January for chrissakes. Nice guy that he was, he obliged: My next assignment was 2 years in Dubai and Oman where it occasionally hits 50 C (122 F) with a heat index as high as 64 C (147 F).

This post has been edited by Dean Adam Smithee: 30 January 2019 - 02:59 PM

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#5 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 03:28 PM

View PostCoach, on 30 January 2019 - 01:29 PM, said:

One of the best courses I took in college was the History of the Westward Movement. About 80% of the reading material was original sources but there were a few historical novels as well. One was "Giants In The Earth" by O. E. Rolvaag. It is set in 1880's North Dakota and provides eye opening descriptions of life and the perils faced by the Nordic settlers.

I post this because of the usual hysteria over the Arctic vortex as covered by cable news. We better hope global cooling isn't beginning.



I grew up in and still have family in Bismarck. The winters are not an exageration. BUT, at the same time people don't realize summers can get hot as hell to. Coldest I ever experienced? With wind chill -70, hottest 116.
It can be a clear winters day, but when that wind comes ripping through it can litterally cause can't see 100 feet in front of you white out with no warning. Imagine, no trees, no building materials and you have to turn a prarie to farmland quickly? Imagine making a house out of prarie sod.

In the eastern part of the state such as Fargo and Grandforks most of the trees are natural. Start going west through the central parts and you see what are essentially small forests and clumps of trees. Most of that was planted.
For what it's worth I do have relatives that farm and some who are not active farmers but still involved in one way or another.

Oki
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#6 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 03:33 PM

View PostLadybird, on 30 January 2019 - 02:08 PM, said:

It's 3 here and dropping by the hour.
(Wind chill is minus 20)



That's nothin' -11 with a windchill of -37 here in Titletown. Perfect weather for a Superbowl.

Oki
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#7 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 04:03 PM

View Postoki, on 30 January 2019 - 03:33 PM, said:

That's nothin' -11 with a windchill of -37 here in Titletown. Perfect weather for a Superbowl.

Oki


Dodged a bullet in the town that the Superbowl IS coming to.

Problem in Atlanta is not snow, per se, but ICE. 1" of snow can shut the area down for days. Why? Because the temp is usually such that it melts off... then freezes overnight into "black ice". OR, if it sticks, gets "pressed" into ice by the 6 million+ vehicles on the road every day on a system that was designed for ~1 million.
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#8 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 04:15 PM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 30 January 2019 - 04:03 PM, said:

Dodged a bullet in the town that the Superbowl IS coming to.

Problem in Atlanta is not snow, per se, but ICE. 1" of snow can shut the area down for days. Why? Because the temp is usually such that it melts off... then freezes overnight into "black ice". OR, if it sticks, gets "pressed" into ice by the 6 million+ vehicles on the road every day on a system that was designed for ~1 million.


I'll believe it. Much the same thing when I was in Oklahoma and also Georgia(Augusta) some years ago.
Even a light dusting shuts the place down. Those of us from snow country can't help but laugh.

Oki
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#9 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 04:53 PM

View Postoki, on 30 January 2019 - 04:15 PM, said:

I'll believe it. Much the same thing when I was in Oklahoma and also Georgia(Augusta) some years ago.
Even a light dusting shuts the place down. Those of us from snow country can't help but laugh.

Oki


Yeah, but there's something people "from snow country" never take into account (and I know this because my large family tree has members all over the place, including "snow country" areas in the midwest, Iowa, Minnesota, both Dakotas, etc):

A "light dusting" can be much more difficult & dangerous to drive in than a thick blanket of snow. You see, when there's a thick layer of snow & ice everywhere, the driving conditions are the same everywhere. Just throw some chains on your tires and you're good to go.

But when it's just a "light dusting", there are HUGE variables. Some areas have fresh snow. Some have old slushy snow. Some have layers of white easy-to-see ice. Some have layers of impossible-to-see black ice. Some have nothing but standing water. Some are completely dry. In other words, you can't use chains unless you're heading into the mountains, and you never know what road conditions to expect from one neighborhood to the next.

Having driven in both heavy snow and light dusting I can testify: Heavy snow is MUCH safer & easier to drive in.

B)
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#10 User is offline   grimreefer 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 04:57 PM

68F here in Jebel Ali. Light jacket weather for this FL boy. :whistling:
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#11 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 05:03 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 30 January 2019 - 04:53 PM, said:

Yeah, but there's something people "from snow country" never take into account (and I know this because my large family tree has members all over the place, including "snow country" areas in the midwest, Iowa, Minnesota, both Dakotas, etc):

A "light dusting" can be much more difficult & dangerous to drive in than a thick blanket of snow. You see, when there's a thick layer of snow & ice everywhere, the driving conditions are the same everywhere. Just throw some chains on your tires and you're good to go.

But when it's just a "light dusting", there are HUGE variables. Some areas have fresh snow. Some have old slushy snow. Some have layers of white easy-to-see ice. Some have layers of impossible-to-see black ice. Some have nothing but standing water. Some are completely dry. In other words, you can't use chains unless you're heading into the mountains, and you never know what road conditions to expect from one neighborhood to the next.

Having driven in both heavy snow and light dusting I can testify: Heavy snow is MUCH safer & easier to drive in.

B)



More so speaking that the light dusting which largely melts on contact freaks people out and they act as if the world is coming to an end. If it's quite cold a light dusting is dangerous as it can make roads quite slippery. Unfortunately heavy snow will compact and turn a road into a skating rink, which is what we have right know. At the moment it's -10 with a windchill of -35. More of the same for tomorrow. So glad mine and the wifes cars have new batteries.

Oki
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#12 User is offline   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 05:17 PM

It's a balmy 8F degrees here in the Derby city which is today's high. Wind chill is -1F right now.

It's supposed to drop to 2F here tonight.

As much as I can't stand our state's republican governor goofball Bevin, he is right in saying that we've gotten soft on closing school this morning with it being 7 degrees and only a light dusting of snow. It felt warmer this morning at 7 degrees with calm/no wind than it did yesterday with it being 22 with the wind gusting to 25 MPH when I was scraping ice from my windshield at 5 AM before going to work.

When I was a kid, they never closed school for just that. It had to be -10F or lower. I waited for the bus for 20 minutes many mornings after walking almost a half mile with it -8 to -10. We just had to layer up and we made it just fine. There was never any talk about any "wind chill" ever being a factor until the late 1970's.

We had to go to school here in the city unless it snowed over 2-3" covering the main roads or there was polished ice coating the streets.

When the snow was too deep for the busses to get up the hill, we had to walk down to the plowed/salted main road to catch the bus with 6" or more deep snow on the side streets.

This post has been edited by Rock N' Roll Right Winger: 30 January 2019 - 05:25 PM

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#13 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 05:22 PM

View Postoki, on 30 January 2019 - 05:03 PM, said:

More so speaking that the light dusting which largely melts on contact freaks people out and they act as if the world is coming to an end. If it's quite cold a light dusting is dangerous as it can make roads quite slippery. Unfortunately heavy snow will compact and turn a road into a skating rink, which is what we have right know. At the moment it's -10 with a windchill of -35. More of the same for tomorrow. So glad mine and the wifes cars have new batteries.

Oki


Yeah, but that's just it - A "skating rink" is easy to drive on as long it's the same "skating rink" all over town. As I said before, just put some chains on and you're good to go. But it's just plain more difficult & dangerous when it's variable all over town specifically because of a light dusting. Especially when it "largely melts on contact", because you never can tell where that melted snow stays melted, or dries completely, or freezes overnight into black ice.

I hear the jokes every year from people who live in "heavy snow country", making fun of drivers in areas where it's usually nothing more than a "light dusting". Those making the jokes clearly have no clue what they're talking about.

:coolshades:
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#14 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 05:33 PM

View PostRock N, on 30 January 2019 - 05:17 PM, said:

It's a balmy 8F degrees here in the Derby city which is today's high. Wind chill is -1F right now.

It's supposed to drop to 2F here tonight.

As much as I can't stand our state's republican governor goofball Bevin, he is right in saying that we've gotten soft on closing school this morning with it being 7 degrees and only a light dusting of snow.

When I was a kid, they never closed school for just that. It had to be -10F or lower. I waited for the bus for 20 minutes many mornings after walking almost a half mile with it -8 to -10. We just had to layer up and we made it just fine. There was never any talk about any "wind chill" ever being a factor until the late 1970's.

We had to go to school here in the city unless it snowed over 2-3" or there was polished ice coating the streets.


Hard to say. Back in Nov-ish, driving up through Your Fair State on I-75. Crossed the TN/KY border just after dusk. Wanted to make it to exit 96 where a Red Roof Inn has "Hot Tub" rooms for under $100/night. We made it as far as exit 30-something in the London or Corbin area. And I'm driving a freakin' 4WD Jeep. Snow doesn't scare me. ICE does.
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#15 User is offline   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 05:34 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 30 January 2019 - 05:22 PM, said:

Yeah, but that's just it - A "skating rink" is easy to drive on as long it's the same "skating rink" all over town. As I said before, just put some chains on and you're good to go. But it's just plain more difficult & dangerous when it's variable all over town specifically because of a light dusting. Especially when it "largely melts on contact", because you never can tell where that melted snow stays melted, or dries completely, or freezes overnight into black ice.

I hear the jokes every year from people who live in "heavy snow country", making fun of drivers in areas where it's usually nothing more than a "light dusting". Those making the jokes clearly have no clue what they're talking about.

:coolshades:

Don't forget about the good ole days when studded snow tires were allowed on the roads.

My dad always put them on his car, his truck and mom's car every winter.

Driving on a sheet of ice wasn't too difficult with those even on a two wheel drive car or truck just so long as one kept the speed low and allowed plenty of distance to follow or stop. Tire chains were the last resort but we used those too as needed.

Most states have banned the use of studded snow tires because of the alleged damage that they do to the asphalt pavement.

My dad served his years in the military stationed in Alaska. He had a two wheel drive 1950 Oldsmobile up there and he never got stuck using studded snow tires. He taught me how to drive in the snow and mud before I was even old enough to get a driver's license. Driving in the snow here in Ky is nothing except for looking out for all the others (idiots) who cannot drive in it.

This post has been edited by Rock N' Roll Right Winger: 30 January 2019 - 05:41 PM

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#16 User is offline   Severian 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 06:23 PM

I saw a news report about some woman in Illinois driving 115 in a 25 zone in the snow and slush. She was spending at least the night in jail.
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#17 User is offline   Natural Selection 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 06:44 PM

My outdoor thermometer here in Chicago at about 9am. It's currently -13.

http://i.postimg.cc/pTYm3Zyy/1-30-2019.jpg
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#18 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 06:58 PM

View PostRock N, on 30 January 2019 - 05:34 PM, said:

Don't forget about the good ole days when studded snow tires were allowed on the roads.

My dad always put them on his car, his truck and mom's car every winter.

Driving on a sheet of ice wasn't too difficult with those even on a two wheel drive car or truck just so long as one kept the speed low and allowed plenty of distance to follow or stop. Tire chains were the last resort but we used those too as needed.

Most states have banned the use of studded snow tires because of the alleged damage that they do to the asphalt pavement.

My dad served his years in the military stationed in Alaska. He had a two wheel drive 1950 Oldsmobile up there and he never got stuck using studded snow tires. He taught me how to drive in the snow and mud before I was even old enough to get a driver's license. Driving in the snow here in Ky is nothing except for looking out for all the others (idiots) who cannot drive in it.


Yup. Driving on a sheet of ice is no big challenge. It's when one block is a sheet of white ice, then the next block is soft snow, then the next is standing water, then the next is black ice, then the next is dry, etc etc etc...that's when winter driving is the scariest and most difficult.

B)
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#19 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 07:14 PM

Light snow on top of a sheet of ice is almost as bad as driving in heavy snow. Worse is freezing rain on top of thick ice.


The snow up here is weird. You can cross a street and suddenly be in a 'snow belt'. It happened to me when we drove to a Buffalo Bills game year before last. There was nothing, then got on the highway and bam... a 2 inch per hour blizzard out of nowhere. I was told it was normal. I live 2 miles from Lake Ontario and about 30 from Lake Erie. Between the two of them, there's constant snow. Even in sunshine, there's always fricken snow coming down. It is however, positively lovely here in the summer.
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#20 User is offline   grimreefer 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 07:23 PM

Just thought these were cool...




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