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#81 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 01:05 PM

View PostTaggart Transcontinental, on 17 May 2019 - 10:09 AM, said:

Oddly enough there was a place in Waco Texas that had a similar ideology and thought process. Who was the President and DOJ that directed the attack on that compound??? Hmmm I wonder. ....

You believe this small community should be raided? Based on what?

As I’ve shown above, they have invited law enforcement onto the grounds, unlike the Branch Davidians and other isolated groups, and have not been accused by any credible source of any wrongdoing. Training women, some of them fat women, to learn self defense and preparedness is not a crime. And as long as all their guns are legal, it shouldn’t matter if they’re armed.
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#82 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 01:51 PM

View PostLadybird, on 17 May 2019 - 01:05 PM, said:

You believe this small community should be raided? Based on what?

As I’ve shown above, they have invited law enforcement onto the grounds, unlike the Branch Davidians and other isolated groups, and have not been accused by any credible source of any wrongdoing. Training women, some of them fat women, to learn self defense and preparedness is not a crime. And as long as all their guns are legal, it shouldn’t matter if they’re armed.


Like I said, if they killed someone in a manner of how they trained would the State of New York charge them for murder?
You know, slitting someones trout from behind, bayoneting someone on the ground, LEAVING THE SAFETY OF YOUR HOME AND CONFRONTING A THREAT. Do tell, if your so damned sure it's 'self defense' then their methods should easily hold up in the very State they reside in. Give you a hint, even Texas I doubt that if you killed someone, even a threat in that manner you wouldn't at least be charged.

Plus, why the segregated training? Wouldn't you want the woman to train against those most likely to attack them? You know, men.
Wouldn't you want the men to be training as well? Say, have you found the videos or links where self defense training involves marching around to a military type cadence? Moving as a squad through the woods? Repelling of towers? Or slitting someones throat from behind?

Oki
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#83 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 02:01 PM

View Postoki, on 17 May 2019 - 01:51 PM, said:

Like I said, if they killed someone in a manner of how they trained would the State of New York charge them for murder?
You know, slitting someones trout from behind, bayoneting someone on the ground, LEAVING THE SAFETY OF YOUR HOME AND CONFRONTING A THREAT. Do tell, if your so damned sure it's 'self defense' then their methods should easily hold up in the very State they reside in. Give you a hint, even Texas I doubt that if you killed someone, even a threat in that manner you wouldn't at least be charged.

Plus, why the segregated training? Wouldn't you want the woman to train against those most likely to attack them? You know, men.
Wouldn't you want the men to be training as well? Say, have you found the videos or links where self defense training involves marching around to a military type cadence? Moving as a squad through the woods? Repelling of towers? Or slitting someones throat from behind?

Oki

If a person with a knife or a gun invaded your home, and you were able to knock that person down, but the attacker was still holding the knife or gun, you wouldn’t do everything including slitting their throat tovstop them? That video showed the women defending themselves in the face of an armed attacker.

Considering the threats from those who believe these conspiracies have incuded one who said “I don’t want to have to kill children, but there’s always collateral damage,” about invading Islamburg, it would behoove every able bodied person in that group to be prepared for a fight.

As far as segregated training, I don’t know. Maybe you should go there and ask.

This post has been edited by Ladybird: 17 May 2019 - 02:04 PM

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#84 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 03:04 PM

View PostLadybird, on 17 May 2019 - 02:01 PM, said:

If a person with a knife or a gun invaded your home, and you were able to knock that person down, but the attacker was still holding the knife or gun, you wouldn’t do everything including slitting their throat tovstop them? That video showed the women defending themselves in the face of an armed attacker.

Considering the threats from those who believe these conspiracies have incuded one who said “I don’t want to have to kill children, but there’s always collateral damage,” about invading Islamburg, it would behoove every able bodied person in that group to be prepared for a fight.

As far as segregated training, I don’t know. Maybe you should go there and ask.


I asked you if you would be charged for murder in New York State, answer the damn question. If it is indeed self defense training and they used it to kill someone then there should be no chance of them being charged. When you kill someone from behind it is a whole different ball game. And, of coarse you won't answer how squad tactics YOU KNOW THERE MOVING THROUGH THE FOREST is self defense in nature because you know damn good and well it is not, and neither is repelling from a tower, and neither is marching in formation to a military type cadence. This is not how people train for self defense, it is how a military trains to kill people.

You know this don't you? But because your such an apologist you won't admit it because that will mean terrorists are training, and it would prove many locations are fronts and lying through there damned teeth in saying ain't nothin' goin' on here.
If this was some White Supremacist Compound you would be demanding the cops shut it down because they are training to murder and assassinate, and guess what? You'd be right! By the way, the segregated training is A. Islam doesn't not believe in Gender integration, B. no one expects woman to start killing people C. A and B.

Does self defense mean you can leave a place where you are safe and not endanger to confront a threat? Tell me what the law in New York says. Does it say that if someone 'invades your property' or any property you are in charge of you can go out and kill them if your perceive them as a threat or they have even acted in a manner which was threatening? Again, ESPECIALLY if you left a safe place. Let me break it down, your in your home you hear something so you leave YOUR HOME disarm an armed attacker, then slit his throat from behind. The State of New York isn't going to charge you with murder? Really, do tell.

Also, ask a cop, self defense trainer or Mil Member(past or present) there take. Or are you afraid of the answer?

Oki
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#85 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 04:15 PM

View Postoki, on 17 May 2019 - 03:04 PM, said:

I asked you if you would be charged for murder in New York State, answer the damn question. If it is indeed self defense training and they used it to kill someone then there should be no chance of them being charged. When you kill someone from behind it is a whole different ball game. And, of coarse you won't answer how squad tactics YOU KNOW THERE MOVING THROUGH THE FOREST is self defense in nature because you know damn good and well it is not, and neither is repelling from a tower, and neither is marching in formation to a military type cadence. This is not how people train for self defense, it is how a military trains to kill people.

You know this don't you? But because your such an apologist you won't admit it because that will mean terrorists are training, and it would prove many locations are fronts and lying through there damned teeth in saying ain't nothin' goin' on here.
If this was some White Supremacist Compound you would be demanding the cops shut it down because they are training to murder and assassinate, and guess what? You'd be right! By the way, the segregated training is A. Islam doesn't not believe in Gender integration, B. no one expects woman to start killing people C. A and B.

Does self defense mean you can leave a place where you are safe and not endanger to confront a threat? Tell me what the law in New York says. Does it say that if someone 'invades your property' or any property you are in charge of you can go out and kill them if your perceive them as a threat or they have even acted in a manner which was threatening? Again, ESPECIALLY if you left a safe place. Let me break it down, your in your home you hear something so you leave YOUR HOME disarm an armed attacker, then slit his throat from behind. The State of New York isn't going to charge you with murder? Really, do tell.

Also, ask a cop, self defense trainer or Mil Member(past or present) there take. Or are you afraid of the answer?

Oki

How the hell should I know? You can look up the law the same as me.

She would probably be arrested, based on similar incidents, and then the charges would be dismissed once the facts were in.

I have never demanded any white supremacists be 'shut down' or prevented from playing GI Joe on their playground.

I know Muslims don't believe in gender mixing, but these women are covered. I don't see what difference it would make if men were helping them train. The tape is kind of murky though so they could have been there or directing or doing the filming.

Again, I have no idea about the law, but if someone attacks these women and children on their propertity, I cannot see any judge tossing them in jail for killing the attacker(s).
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#86 User is online   Squirrel 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 06:49 PM

Muslim good never doubt , never fail to defend and most of all never adress or answer facts. Your right lady bird as ex army and as and licsenced to carry, that’s all self defense training. I remember the second or 3rd question on the test being do you know how to properly cut the victim,,, oops I mean aggressors throat when defending yourself. I also remember the rest of the training, but that was when I was in the army. But by all means your right. It’s not that you can’t answer what the law is. It’s that your too dishonest to admit facts. But you go girl, your getting as sad and predictable as TG and our Russian. I like the I can’t see a judge jailing them when they leave a safe space, hunting down a man and cut thier throat from behind. That’s what was asked and your nope I don’t know the law. Look it up yourself. Gues what that’s murder even if your a Muslim. So what you stated is that’s ok with you. Thanks again for showing your hate and support of hate.

This post has been edited by Squirrel: 17 May 2019 - 06:53 PM

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#87 User is offline   searcher 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 07:07 PM

I believe the Muslims have as much right to play their games on their own property just as much as any White supremacists or Black Liberation Army types. They should also be watched (wiretaps, computer traces, infiltrated, etc.) just like the other groups.

Mark
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#88 User is offline   Noclevermoniker 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 07:49 PM

View PostLadybird, on 16 May 2019 - 12:56 PM, said:

Why should these women not be taught to defend themselves, repel and even kill those who invade their communities in order to kill them?

I just hope we get to them first.
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#89 User is offline   JerryL 

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 04:31 AM

View PostLadybird, on 17 May 2019 - 10:58 AM, said:

It’s still a lie even IF people were celebrating behind closed doors. Considering this was right across the river, where many Jerseyites commute to and from work, they were more likely worried about friends and loved ones, you know like other human beings.
What did Gouliani say? “Truth isn’t truth”.
Trump and Cult 45 have their own version of the truth.

And it is still a lie that you give an actual <censored> about the truth.
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#90 User is offline   Noclevermoniker 

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 11:57 AM

View PostLadybird, on 17 May 2019 - 01:05 PM, said:

You believe this small community should be raided? Based on what?

As I’ve shown above, they have invited law enforcement onto the grounds, unlike the Branch Davidians and other isolated groups, and have not been accused by any credible source of any wrongdoing. Training women, some of them fat women, to learn self defense and preparedness is not a crime. And as long as all their guns are legal, it shouldn’t matter if they’re armed.

Sokay, once the scourge of I-slam is eradicated from planet Earth, it won’t matter much anyway. These are the same “women” who teach their children to become splodeydopes. Self-defense, my Aunt Marilyn.

Inviting kafir law enforcement to watch? Taqqia much?
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#91 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 03:31 PM

View PostLadybird, on 17 May 2019 - 04:15 PM, said:

How the hell should I know? You can look up the law the same as me.

She would probably be arrested, based on similar incidents, and then the charges would be dismissed once the facts were in.

I have never demanded any white supremacists be 'shut down' or prevented from playing GI Joe on their playground.

I know Muslims don't believe in gender mixing, but these women are covered. I don't see what difference it would make if men were helping them train. The tape is kind of murky though so they could have been there or directing or doing the filming.

Again, I have no idea about the law, but if someone attacks these women and children on their propertity, I cannot see any judge tossing them in jail for killing the attacker(s).



If you believe what they are doing is in fact self defense then you should have no issue in citing how it's self defense should they use it to kill someone. AGAIN, no one and I mean NO ONE trains for self defense in that manner. That is military training pure and simple. That begs the question why would they feel the need to train their own little Army? Why train woman? Because no one will be expecting some little five foot nothing Somali woman to pull an AK from under her robes and start firing. Much less the fact that if you start putting people who wear loose clothing which can easily weapons under extra scrutiny your labeled a racist, have the ACLU on you and face lawsuits. AS far as the tape goes there is no question it was filmed in the U.S.

Hmmm... are you going to tell me that it's perfectly okay for them to train to kill people, patrol their home and should they be attacked or even find someone who they believe is a threat kill the person in the manner they trained in? Aren't they suppose to call 911 and wait for the cops? Only kill the person if they are an imminent threat? Last I understood New York law does not allow you to leave a relatively safe space to go and confront someone who is not a direct threat.

Oki
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#92 User is online   Squirrel 

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 06:08 PM

View Postoki, on 22 May 2019 - 03:31 PM, said:

If you believe what they are doing is in fact self defense then you should have no issue in citing how it's self defense should they use it to kill someone. AGAIN, no one and I mean NO ONE trains for self defense in that manner. That is military training pure and simple. That begs the question why would they feel the need to train their own little Army? Why train woman? Because no one will be expecting some little five foot nothing Somali woman to pull an AK from under her robes and start firing. Much less the fact that if you start putting people who wear loose clothing which can easily weapons under extra scrutiny your labeled a racist, have the ACLU on you and face lawsuits. AS far as the tape goes there is no question it was filmed in the U.S.

Hmmm... are you going to tell me that it's perfectly okay for them to train to kill people, patrol their home and should they be attacked or even find someone who they believe is a threat kill the person in the manner they trained in? Aren't they suppose to call 911 and wait for the cops? Only kill the person if they are an imminent threat? Last I understood New York law does not allow you to leave a relatively safe space to go and confront someone who is not a direct threat.

Oki
.

You really expect an honest answer or her to address those things? I thought you were smarter then that
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#93 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 08:22 AM

View PostSquirrel, on 22 May 2019 - 06:08 PM, said:

.

You really expect an honest answer or her to address those things? I thought you were smarter then that


Guess I am just the type who believes in giving people benefit of a doubt, but at the same time trust is not only earned but also needs to be proven. I also believe that things work 'both ways'. That if we are to believe in don't let a few bad Apples spoil the bunch then the bunch should not only be willing to show it isn't bad, but able to prove it. Imagine for a minute that you took samples of a bunch of apples and a portion of them where found to be bad. 5 percent, 10,20,30? What is the threshold before you either throw out the entire bushel or at least check every single one well enough that you don't have to worry about it making you sick or killing you? There are no guarantees of coarse, but if the farmer has a problem with bad Apples or had a bad crop you at a minimum put his entire crop under extra scrutiny.

Funny thought.... imagine for a minute if the people in that little compound called 911, the dispatcher told them not to do something they found the intruder and in self defense shot and killed the person. Would there be a media circus screams of racism from the left and MSM, death threats and peoples lives for ever ruined? Or would the same people who criticized a certain someone else apply the same standards? Hell, for arguments sake lets say the deceased was even a guest of a resident.

Oki
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#94 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 08:54 AM

View Postoki, on 22 May 2019 - 03:31 PM, said:

If you believe what they are doing is in fact self defense then you should have no issue in citing how it's self defense should they use it to kill someone. AGAIN, no one and I mean NO ONE trains for self defense in that manner. That is military training pure and simple. That begs the question why would they feel the need to train their own little Army? Why train woman? Because no one will be expecting some little five foot nothing Somali woman to pull an AK from under her robes and start firing. Much less the fact that if you start putting people who wear loose clothing which can easily weapons under extra scrutiny your labeled a racist, have the ACLU on you and face lawsuits. AS far as the tape goes there is no question it was filmed in the U.S.

Hmmm... are you going to tell me that it's perfectly okay for them to train to kill people, patrol their home and should they be attacked or even find someone who they believe is a threat kill the person in the manner they trained in? Aren't they suppose to call 911 and wait for the cops? Only kill the person if they are an imminent threat? Last I understood New York law does not allow you to leave a relatively safe space to go and confront someone who is not a direct threat.

Oki


Murky, edited videos taken by a spy or anti-Muslim hate group is not evidence of wrongdoing. If this were a Christian or plain militia groups private property, would you want the government to invade it and disrupt or order the owners off? If they have invited local law enforcement on the property directly and their is government surveillance what else do you want? It’s hard to believe with all the complaints from the right about Ruby Ridge and Waco, it is fine with government intrusion under these circumstances.

View Postsearcher, on 17 May 2019 - 07:07 PM, said:

I believe the Muslims have as much right to play their games on their own property just as much as any White supremacists or Black Liberation Army types. They should also be watched (wiretaps, computer traces, infiltrated, etc.) just like the other groups.

Mark


Agreed.
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#95 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 09:04 AM

View PostLadybird, on 23 May 2019 - 08:54 AM, said:

Murky, edited videos taken by a spy or anti-Muslim hate group is not evidence of wrongdoing. If this were a Christian or plain militia groups private property, would you want the government to invade it and disrupt or order the owners off? If they have invited local law enforcement on the property directly and their is government surveillance what else do you want? It’s hard to believe with all the complaints from the right about Ruby Ridge and Waco, it is fine with government intrusion under these circumstances.



Agreed.

Oh for God sakes already. I DON'T CARE WHO THIS WOULD BE, IT WOULD WARRANT AN INVESTIGATION BECAUSE IT'S PARAMILITARY TRAINING. If they where wearing White Hoods would you not be afraid? And, I would agree with you because it's not self defense training. I already asked you many times to name me how it's self defense type training, you can't because it's not. IF one of them found someone they believed to be an intruder(but was a guest of someone) attacked said member, and the member shot them in self defense AFTER a 911 dispatcher told them to stay put, or better yet slit their throat in the manner they trained for would you say it was justified? Answer some basic questions.

1. Explain how it's self defense training and not paramilitary. Do tell.
2. Tell us how you'd call it self defense if someone was already incapacitated and then had their throat slit from behind.
3. Tell us how you'd defend someone who left a safe space, sought someone out and didn't wait for the cops.

Oki

This post has been edited by oki: 23 May 2019 - 09:27 AM

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#96 User is offline   Howsithangin 

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 11:25 AM

View Postoki, on 16 May 2019 - 09:57 AM, said:

Let's see here.

First it was no one ever said there aren't Muslim training camps here in the U.S., or called anyone who thinks they're are crazy, anti Islam etc etc etc. I posted a link showing that was in fact the case.

0 for 1

Then it was but your link shows Islamburg and poor poor Islamburg has been threatened , and all the video shows is woman marching with rifles.
So I posted another Video showing it is not self defense, is definitely in the U.S. and was without question Paramilitary training that a terrorist would recieve.

0 for 2

Then it was mean old Trump said Muslims were dancing in New Jersey and that's a lie such a huge lie...
So I posted a link showing that in fact there where celebrations a retired New York City Captain IS ON RECORD STATING HE broke up a rooftop celebration of at least 30, AND, people reported numerous other celebrations. It's not a stretch to say there where hundreds, and a person could easily mistake 100's for thousands especially at a distance.

0 for 3

Know it's Trump lied to the troops faces about pay?
An E-5(Sergeant) with six years of service was paid 2,856.60 in 2018
In 2016 he or she was paid 2,797.80
In 2015 he or she was paid 2,761.80

BUT.. in 2019 that same E-5 is getting paid... wait for it...... 3001.50 tell me... what do you get when multiply 2856.60 X .10 then add 2,856.60? yeah it ain't a ten percent raise, but sure as hell is MUCH MUCH bigger than anything they got under Obama. It's about eight percent.

https://www.military...-pay-charts.asp

You know what I am feeling generous so I will say Trump exaggerated. One in saying 10 percent when it was 8 and that the troops had received messily 2 or 3 percent adjustments. So I will give you one point.

That's still 1 for 3.

Stating no one ridiculed anyone who stated there are Islamic Terrorist training centers in the U.S.
Stating the woman in the video from ISLAMBURG where simply training for self defense
Stating first there where no Muslims dancing on 911 then trying to back track and state that it wasn't thousands. It only took about 20 to kill over 3,000 innocent people. Numbers are irrelevant. It HAPPENED, I PROVIDED PROOF.
Stating Trump lied to the troops about pay, when in reality he was mistaken and exaggerated some. But, because I am feeling generous I'll give you that one.

Care to go 1 for 4?

Oki



well done.

This should have ended the thread, but Ladybird has caught on to the T_G dance.
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#97 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 12:41 PM

View Postoki, on 23 May 2019 - 09:04 AM, said:

Oh for God sakes already. I DON'T CARE WHO THIS WOULD BE, IT WOULD WARRANT AN INVESTIGATION BECAUSE IT'S PARAMILITARY TRAINING. If they where wearing White Hoods would you not be afraid? And, I would agree with you because it's not self defense training. I already asked you many times to name me how it's self defense type training, you can't because it's not. IF one of them found someone they believed to be an intruder(but was a guest of someone) attacked said member, and the member shot them in self defense AFTER a 911 dispatcher told them to stay put, or better yet slit their throat in the manner they trained for would you say it was justified? Answer some basic questions.

1. Explain how it's self defense training and not paramilitary. Do tell.
2. Tell us how you'd call it self defense if someone was already incapacitated and then had their throat slit from behind.
3. Tell us how you'd defend someone who left a safe space, sought someone out and didn't wait for the cops.

Oki



I agreed that surveillance is warranted, as with any heavily armed group, so what are you going on about?

Is their something else that should happen to these folks who are on private property? The already have a relationship with local law enforcement. As a reminder:

Quote


"I think there is a lot of misinformation that is out there, certainly on the Internet," said Capt. James Barnes from the New York State Police Bureau of Criminal Investigation. Barnes told CBS News that he's had a personal relationship with the community of Islamberg for 12 years.

"I go back to the numerous time that the state police has been invited to their lands, and again, I don't know any other place where, if something nefarious is occurring that they would willingly invite law enforcement personnel to come in and have lunch with them and interact with them on a frequent basis," said Barnes. "I would say that the amount of crime that is associated there at the land is less than it is anywhere else."


Link

This post has been edited by Ladybird: 23 May 2019 - 12:41 PM

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#98 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 03:08 PM

View PostLadybird, on 23 May 2019 - 12:41 PM, said:

I agreed that surveillance is warranted, as with any heavily armed group, so what are you going on about?

Is their something else that should happen to these folks who are on private property? The already have a relationship with local law enforcement. As a reminder:



Link



So the cops came and checked them out. WOWeee, I guess every single group or individual that was checked out by the Police was no longer a threat. You have insisted their training is self defense and that even after incapacitating someone it would still be self defense to kill them. Yet, you cannot seem to find one shred of proof that ANYONE or ANY GROUP teaches these methods as self defense vs teaching Mil Members OR Paramilitary AND TERRORISTS. I asked you how you would feel if these were KKK members. Well, would you be okay with it or not? I also asked if you'd call it self defense if one them killed someone they though was an intruder by incapacitating, disarming then slitting their neck from behind, yet again no answer. Yes, legally all that can be done is to monitor them. BUT, refusing to recognize a threat and call it for that is part of the problem. It's a form of enabling.

Oki
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#99 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 03:15 PM

View PostHowsithangin, on 23 May 2019 - 11:25 AM, said:

well done.

This should have ended the thread, but Ladybird has caught on to the T_G dance.


I have no issue with anyone whose goals are to work hard, assimilate, live peacefully and has at least a willingness to bend some as to fit in. BUT, when videos such as the 'self defense' training see light of day what in the hell other conclusion can someone draw?
That learning squad tactics, disarm then slit someones throat from behind is self defense? Self defense focuses on stopping a threat with deadly force if necessary. Military training focuses 1st and foremost on killing someone as quickly and efficiently as possible either individually or as a group. Self defense IS JUST THAT SELF, not as a group.

If this was a KKK enclave or other hate group it would have made the nightly news. Then of coarse death threats, then I guess that would make all the training a okay.


Oki
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