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#21 User is offline   Holland25 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 09:48 AM

I don't know what to say about the ignorant and deluded anti-vaccine people. They are wrong and believe the conspiracy theories of that movement. There are many diseases that can be prevented from immunizations. Yes, lots of people got these diseases and got over it but a number die or have brain damage or other problems that could have been easily curable.

The immigrant problem is a big part of the resurgence of these diseases. There is something called herd immunity which refers to having mostly if not all in a group vaccinated. Now the people who don't get their children immunized are placing their child at risk, not the properly immunized child. That is why in schools when an outbreak happens all children unvaccinated against a particular disease are excluded from school. It is to protect them not the other children. Of course the kids that are not immunized are incubators for disease.

I have this incredible physical therapist and she is so anti-vaccine and into everything holistic. She is so militant about it I was thinking, how can this intelligent, well educated person believe this. For instance we were talking and I mentioned the benefits of polio vaccine. She said that was a bunch of nonsense. polio was on the way out when Jonah Sulk came out with the vaccine. Some people you can never convince.
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#22 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 09:50 AM

I got a tetanus vaccine once that had side effects that mimic the flu. I had nausea, chills and a high fever (103) for about three days. Never did that again.
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#23 User is offline   BootsieBets 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 11:59 AM

View PostHolland25, on 29 January 2019 - 09:48 AM, said:

I don't know what to say about the ignorant and deluded anti-vaccine people. They are wrong and believe the conspiracy theories of that movement. There are many diseases that can be prevented from immunizations. Yes, lots of people got these diseases and got over it but a number die or have brain damage or other problems that could have been easily curable.

The immigrant problem is a big part of the resurgence of these diseases. There is something called herd immunity which refers to having mostly if not all in a group vaccinated. Now the people who don't get their children immunized are placing their child at risk, not the properly immunized child. That is why in schools when an outbreak happens all children unvaccinated against a particular disease are excluded from school. It is to protect them not the other children. Of course the kids that are not immunized are incubators for disease.

I have this incredible physical therapist and she is so anti-vaccine and into everything holistic. She is so militant about it I was thinking, how can this intelligent, well educated person believe this. For instance we were talking and I mentioned the benefits of polio vaccine. She said that was a bunch of nonsense. polio was on the way out when Jonah Sulk came out with the vaccine. Some people you can never convince.

The anti-vaxxers are dangerous. They would have everyone forego getting vaccines for an unproven theory that they cause Autism, while knowing they actually prevent deadly childhood diseases. And you are right, we have immigrants who are from countries that donít have the same medical standards we do. They arenít vaccinated and may bring the diseases with them and with fewer kids here getting vaccinated, the diseases make a comeback.

We are so spoiled and take for granted not having to worry about things that our parents and grandparents had to be concerned about when their children were growing up. The vaccine-autism link has been studied for quite a while without a clear link, but people like ďactor/activistĒ Jenny McCarthy go around preaching anti-vaxx activism. In the meantime, diseases that were once almost unheard of in our modern time in this country are back. Thank, Jen.

And I had a message therapist who had the same beliefs about medicine as your physical therapist. She thought that all modern medicine was just a way to take your money. She was a good message therapist, but kinda crazy.
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#24 User is offline   Hieronymous 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 12:10 PM

View PostBootsieBets, on 29 January 2019 - 11:59 AM, said:

The anti-vaxxers are dangerous. They would have everyone forego getting vaccines for an unproven theory that they cause Autism, while knowing they actually prevent deadly childhood diseases. And you are right, we have immigrants who are from countries that donít have the same medical standards we do. They arenít vaccinated and may bring the diseases with them and with fewer kids here getting vaccinated, the diseases make a comeback.

We are so spoiled and take for granted not having to worry about things that our parents and grandparents had to be concerned about when their children were growing up. The vaccine-autism link has been studied for quite a while without a clear link, but people like ďactor/activistĒ Jenny McCarthy go around preaching anti-vaxx activism. In the meantime, diseases that were once almost unheard of in our modern time in this country are back. Thank, Jen.

And I had a message therapist who had the same beliefs about medicine as your physical therapist. She thought that all modern medicine was just a way to take your money. She was a good message therapist, but kinda crazy.

Anti vaccine people want to decide for themselves whether or not their kids get vaccinated. They don't say nobody should be vaccinated. I think we know our government well enough to not just believe them when they tell us something is for our own good. I get where these people are coming from, and the fact that they are marginalized by media only makes me wonder if these people might actually be right.
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#25 User is offline   BootsieBets 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 12:15 PM

View PostUSNRETWIFE, on 29 January 2019 - 12:01 AM, said:

Our population has been pretty spoiled as far as some of these things go. As Bootsie said there, can be complications from these "simple childhood diseases" that too many don't realize because they are much more rare than when I was a kid in the 1950s/60s.

Yes, very spoiled. I am old enough to have known a boy in our neighborhood who had contracted polio, probably sometime in the late 1950's. My mom babysat him sometimes, he told the best ghost stories! I remember when the "sugar cube polio vaccine" was given to everyone in the community, we would all stand in line at a church or school. Yep, things have changed.
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#26 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 02:43 PM

View PostHieronymous, on 28 January 2019 - 08:34 PM, said:

Whoever develops the vaccine for the common cold (assuming he/she is not employed by a pharmaceutical company that secures patent rights to anything their employees develop), will be the first person in history worth 10 figures...

That and a fat vaccine.
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#27 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 03:07 PM

View PostHieronymous, on 29 January 2019 - 12:10 PM, said:

Anti vaccine people want to decide for themselves whether or not their kids get vaccinated. They don't say nobody should be vaccinated. I think we know our government well enough to not just believe them when they tell us something is for our own good. I get where these people are coming from, and the fact that they are marginalized by media only makes me wonder if these people might actually be right.


I'm 50/50 on this. I think the WHOLE list that the CDC publishes is a bit much. And I've never had ALL those, and yet here I am almost 60 YO, but I do think some childhood "basics" are essential: Polio, MMR, DPT.

CDC: Recommended Vaccines by Age

Apparently, at 50+, I'm supposed to get a "zoster" vaccination, whatever that is. I think I'll pass. Is that supposed to prevent me from becoming a Zoroastrian, or what? I probably don't need it. Though I will admit to, at my age, a fondness for History Channel and especially some episodes of "Ancient Aliens" which I think are a hoot.
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#28 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 03:33 PM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 29 January 2019 - 03:07 PM, said:

I'm 50/50 on this. I think the WHOLE list that the CDC publishes is a bit much. And I've never had ALL those, and yet here I am almost 60 YO, but I do think some childhood "basics" are essential: Polio, MMR, DPT.

CDC: Recommended Vaccines by Age

Apparently, at 50+, I'm supposed to get a "zoster" vaccination, whatever that is. I think I'll pass. Is that supposed to prevent me from becoming a Zoroastrian, or what? I probably don't need it. Though I will admit to, at my age, a fondness for History Channel and especially some episodes of "Ancient Aliens" which I think are a hoot.


I donít know what a zoster is. I googled the word and got ths:

zos∑ter
/ˈzšstər/Submit
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
short for herpes zoster.
2.
(in ancient Greece) a belt or girdle.
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#29 User is offline   BootsieBets 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 04:26 PM

View PostHieronymous, on 29 January 2019 - 12:10 PM, said:

Anti vaccine people want to decide for themselves whether or not their kids get vaccinated. They don't say nobody should be vaccinated. I think we know our government well enough to not just believe them when they tell us something is for our own good. I get where these people are coming from, and the fact that they are marginalized by media only makes me wonder if these people might actually be right.

I donít know, back in the day when I still watched the shows on daytime TV (I know, I know Ė give me a break) Jenny McCarthy was all over the media. And she said outright that vaccines were poison and were the cause of her sonís autism and we didnít know how bad they were, etc., etc., etc. She may have changed her stance on them in the last few years, but she was very outspoken about it for a long time. I know she was looking for something to try to hold responsible for her sonís issues, but she actually said that 99.9% of the parents who have kids with autism would rather they have the measles than the autism. Well, thatís fine Ė if the kid doesnít have complications. So letís just start a new epidemic. Yea, thatíll be great. We donít even know for sure if thatís what caused your sonís autism.

Autism started long before vaccines (first reported cases were in the 1900's) and there is no solid evidence that vaccines cause autism. However, vaccines have saved millions of lives since they have been developed and I don't think we want to go back to a time when even half of those lives are lost again due to a preventable disease.

I don't mean to jump down your throat, Hieronymous, but I have known several anti-vaxxers and they are very unreasonable.
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#30 User is offline   Hieronymous 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 05:09 PM

View PostBootsieBets, on 29 January 2019 - 04:26 PM, said:

I donít know, back in the day when I still watched the shows on daytime TV (I know, I know Ė give me a break) Jenny McCarthy was all over the media. And she said outright that vaccines were poison and were the cause of her sonís autism and we didnít know how bad they were, etc., etc., etc. She may have changed her stance on them in the last few years, but she was very outspoken about it for a long time. I know she was looking for something to try to hold responsible for her sonís issues, but she actually said that 99.9% of the parents who have kids with autism would rather they have the measles than the autism. Well, thatís fine Ė if the kid doesnít have complications. So letís just start a new epidemic. Yea, thatíll be great. We donít even know for sure if thatís what caused your sonís autism.

Autism started long before vaccines (first reported cases were in the 1900's) and there is no solid evidence that vaccines cause autism. However, vaccines have saved millions of lives since they have been developed and I don't think we want to go back to a time when even half of those lives are lost again due to a preventable disease.

I don't mean to jump down your throat, Hieronymous, but I have known several anti-vaxxers and they are very unreasonable.

Don't worry about it. Your opinion is just as valid as mine, maybe more so, since I am not a parent. Even so, I will hang on to my general mistrust of anything government. After all, they earned it.
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#31 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 05:14 PM

View PostBootsieBets, on 29 January 2019 - 04:26 PM, said:

I donít know, back in the day when I still watched the shows on daytime TV (I know, I know Ė give me a break) Jenny McCarthy was all over the media. And she said outright that vaccines were poison and were the cause of her sonís autism and we didnít know how bad they were, etc., etc., etc. She may have changed her stance on them in the last few years, but she was very outspoken about it for a long time. I know she was looking for something to try to hold responsible for her sonís issues, but she actually said that 99.9% of the parents who have kids with autism would rather they have the measles than the autism. Well, thatís fine Ė if the kid doesnít have complications. So letís just start a new epidemic. Yea, thatíll be great. We donít even know for sure if thatís what caused your sonís autism.

Autism started long before vaccines (first reported cases were in the 1900's) and there is no solid evidence that vaccines cause autism. However, vaccines have saved millions of lives since they have been developed and I don't think we want to go back to a time when even half of those lives are lost again due to a preventable disease.

I don't mean to jump down your throat, Hieronymous, but I have known several anti-vaxxers and they are very unreasonable.


Jenny McCarthy may be an airhead - though she DID look good in Playboy back in the '90s - but she MAY have a point. Not any one vaccine but piles of vaccines given at the same time. The statistics lead me to believe that there MIGHT be a "there" there.
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#32 User is offline   Hieronymous 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 05:20 PM

View PostLadybird, on 29 January 2019 - 09:50 AM, said:

I got a tetanus vaccine once that had side effects that mimic the flu. I had nausea, chills and a high fever (103) for about three days. Never did that again.

Plus those things, unlike other shots, actually hurt. A LOT. If you ever get a cut that requires stitches, saying you just had a tetanus shot won't save you. You're getting one.
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#33 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 06:26 PM

View PostHolland25, on 29 January 2019 - 09:48 AM, said:

I don't know what to say about the ignorant and deluded anti-vaccine people. They are wrong and believe the conspiracy theories of that movement. There are many diseases that can be prevented from immunizations. Yes, lots of people got these diseases and got over it but a number die or have brain damage or other problems that could have been easily curable.

The immigrant problem is a big part of the resurgence of these diseases. There is something called herd immunity which refers to having mostly if not all in a group vaccinated. Now the people who don't get their children immunized are placing their child at risk, not the properly immunized child. That is why in schools when an outbreak happens all children unvaccinated against a particular disease are excluded from school. It is to protect them not the other children. Of course the kids that are not immunized are incubators for disease.

I have this incredible physical therapist and she is so anti-vaccine and into everything holistic. She is so militant about it I was thinking, how can this intelligent, well educated person believe this. For instance we were talking and I mentioned the benefits of polio vaccine. She said that was a bunch of nonsense. polio was on the way out when Jonah Sulk came out with the vaccine. Some people you can never convince.


Problem is, I think the Gov't "overdid" it. There are "basics" that I think every Child should get : Polio, MMR, DPT. Stop THERE and I'm okay with it.
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#34 User is offline   BootsieBets 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 07:05 PM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 29 January 2019 - 05:14 PM, said:

Jenny McCarthy may be an airhead - though she DID look good in Playboy back in the '90s - but she MAY have a point. Not any one vaccine but piles of vaccines given at the same time. The statistics lead me to believe that there MIGHT be a "there" there.

Well, I look at it differently Ė I donít take medical advice from Playboy models (unless they have a medical degree.) :whistling:

I do agree that they give a lot more vaccines to kids these days than they did back in the 50ís or 60ís. But they develop more all the time. It may be better to give them spread out over a longer period of time, if you can get parents to bring their kids in for that many appointments??? Cost/time vs convenience?
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#35 User is offline   Holland25 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 09:55 AM

View PostHieronymous, on 29 January 2019 - 12:10 PM, said:

Anti vaccine people want to decide for themselves whether or not their kids get vaccinated. They don't say nobody should be vaccinated. I think we know our government well enough to not just believe them when they tell us something is for our own good. I get where these people are coming from, and the fact that they are marginalized by media only makes me wonder if these people might actually be right.


I get what you are saying about the media and the government. I share contempt for both of these entities but the science of immunizations is indisputable but not because the government says so. People still die of hepatitis, influenza, measles, and other conditions. Or they become horrible sick with say whooping cough or pertussis. Some have birth defects and paralysis like with the measles, or polio. Like I said the first victims will be the ones not immunized.
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#36 User is offline   MTP Reggie 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 10:52 AM

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50999232_1209959569156809_3277230239222071296_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=fb3d4160c9fa8e293e51b8448f3bcf56&oe=5CB58A06
https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51275619_1209959575823475_8017134457502826496_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=9256d060849b0bb77b885ce641da5420&oe=5CF942CB





This one isn't safe for work...




https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51068884_1209959619156804_6980490937508036608_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=cd60ace84353fcb590636229e683b329&oe=5CBBD7FB

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51314160_1209959642490135_3399359094572711936_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=7a63194c0e8062b21bbb16701c76cb6d&oe=5CFB3210

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51041804_1209959659156800_6028931651654909952_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=774ad4112338c86959d09da69e0415bb&oe=5CB95358





Neither is this one...



https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51294683_1209959702490129_235957304149671936_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=6e5647bc9c6175c72d51fcf0fb1700b1&oe=5CB60C25

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51225901_1209959722490127_1749498075543502848_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=76ee94e1ac2a0af4020a154cdceb59c8&oe=5CFA9239

This post has been edited by MTP Reggie: 30 January 2019 - 10:55 AM

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#37 User is offline   BootsieBets 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 01:07 PM

View PostMTP Reggie, on 30 January 2019 - 10:52 AM, said:

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50999232_1209959569156809_3277230239222071296_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=fb3d4160c9fa8e293e51b8448f3bcf56&oe=5CB58A06
90127_1749498075543502848_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=76ee94e1ac2a0af4020a154cdceb59c8&oe=5CFA9239[/img]

Wow, these people answering this poor woman are ---- funny. Sorry, but they made me laugh. I particularly liked the one about the Milk Bones!

All I would say to her is, if she insists on not vaxxing her kid, hope (or pray, if she is inclined that way) that if her child contracts measles, the case is not a bad one and she doesnít have complications. Thatís kind of what our grandmas did way back when! You know, before they developed vaccinations.

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#38 User is offline   usapatriot 

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 12:18 AM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 29 January 2019 - 09:33 AM, said:

I've seen some theories on autism that purport to link it to, not any particular vaccine, but the fact of getting Too Many at once. I don't believe it has ever been 'proven', but there is JUST enough of a statistical blip that I put it in the "why take any chances?" category. Better safe than sorry.

But even before the Autism scare, it just seemed like a good idea to spread it out. After all, the whole point of a vaccine is to get the body to produce antibodies in response and "train" the immune system, so to speak, and while I have absolutely ZERO data to back it up it just seems logical that the body can do this more effectively one at a time.

As for 'cost' and effort? What I especially like is the increasing trend (at least in some states) towards allowing pharmacists to give not just flu shots but the whole spectrum of school-required vaccines. And when it comes right down to it, I trust pharmacists MORE than MDs when it comes to understanding drugs and drug interactions and reactions... because that's precisely what they're educated in.

It's actually not a "theory". The CDC was finally (after nearly 15 years after a whistle blower indicated its existence) forced to provide the results they did on the study between the relationship vaccines and autism. And, what do you know...YES they found a 7.6 fold increase with children who vaccinated. This was just released a week ago. Did you see front page news on this revelation!?! No, not even a peep from the media because they know if they do, big pharma is going to take all of their ad money someplace else. Bill Gates, who is a BIG pusher of vaccines, was discovered to be a hypocrite when his family doctor accidentally let it out that none of his kids were vaccinated starting in the late 90s. Hmmm...what does he know?

Also, I can't find it now, but another independent study looked into the autism rate for Amish kids (they don't vaccinate their kids). And guess what...you guessed it, they found only ONE possible case of autism in over 1,000 kids! The autism rate is 1 in 64 in the United States. Hmmm...maybe its just what they are eating. Yeah, right!

Adding the link the CDC report https://newspunch.co...-caused-autism/

This post has been edited by usapatriot: 31 January 2019 - 12:22 AM

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#39 User is offline   usapatriot 

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 12:38 AM

View PostBootsieBets, on 29 January 2019 - 11:59 AM, said:

The anti-vaxxers are dangerous. They would have everyone forego getting vaccines for an unproven theory that they cause Autism, while knowing they actually prevent deadly childhood diseases. And you are right, we have immigrants who are from countries that don’t have the same medical standards we do. They aren’t vaccinated and may bring the diseases with them and with fewer kids here getting vaccinated, the diseases make a comeback.

We are so spoiled and take for granted not having to worry about things that our parents and grandparents had to be concerned about when their children were growing up. The vaccine-autism link has been studied for quite a while without a clear link, but people like “actor/activist” Jenny McCarthy go around preaching anti-vaxx activism. In the meantime, diseases that were once almost unheard of in our modern time in this country are back. Thank, Jen.

And I had a message therapist who had the same beliefs about medicine as your physical therapist. She thought that all modern medicine was just a way to take your money. She was a good message therapist, but kinda crazy.

See my post above. The CDC finally had to admit that vaccines cause autism due to Robert Kennedy's efforts to expose this fraud.

Also, I'm sure you aren't aware, but the deaths caused by the different diseases were rather high in the early 1900s (some ranged as high as 45 per 1000). But, by 1950 (before anyone was getting vaccinated), the death rate for ALL of these diseases went down to less than 0.1 per 1000!!! Why did this happen you ask. Well, it was due to our standard of living increased incredibly in 50 years...better sanitation, less contaminated food, better housing conditions, less need to work when you should be staying home. Bottom line, very few people died from these diseases in 1950, but everyone got them. I got the measles, mumps, and chicken pox and what do you know...I'm still kicking. Vaccines are only produced to make big pharma rich. It has NOTHING to do with keeping us safe and healthy. If you want to eliminate your ignorance on this topic, I suggest you educator yourself by getting the facts. Here's a great website to start your learning possess http://www.vaccines.news/

This post has been edited by usapatriot: 31 January 2019 - 12:39 AM

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#40 User is offline   MTP Reggie 

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 08:06 AM

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