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#1 User is offline   Liz 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 10:03 AM

Mueller Changed Everything

Washington Examiner
by Byron York
May 19, 2019 05:00 PM

Excerpt:

From now on, the Trump-Russia affair, the investigation that dominated the first years of Donald Trump's presidency, will be divided into two parts: before and after the release of the Mueller report. Before the special counsel's findings were made public last month, the president's adversaries were on the offensive. Now, they are playing defense.

The change is due to one simple fact: Mueller could not establish that there was a conspiracy or coordination between Russia and the Trump campaign to fix the 2016 election. The special counsel's office interviewed 500 witnesses, issued 2,800 subpoenas, executed nearly 500 search-and-seizure warrants, and obtained nearly 300 records of electronic communications, and still could not establish the one thing that mattered most in the investigation.

Without a judgment that a conspiracy ó or collusion, in the popular phrase ó took place, everything else in the Trump-Russia affair began to shrink in significance.

In particular, allegations that the president obstructed justice to cover up a conspiracy were transformed into allegations that he obstructed an investigation into a crime that prosecutors could not say actually occurred. Although it is legally possible to pursue an obstruction case without an underlying crime, a critical element of obstruction ó knowledge of guilt ó disappeared the moment Mueller's report was released.

Of course, TV talking heads are still arguing over obstruction. But with the report's release, the investigation moved from the legal realm to the political realm. And in the political realm, the president has a simple and effective case to make to the 99.6% of Americans who are not lawyers: They say I obstructed an investigation into something that didn't happen? And they want to impeach me for that?

The ground has shifted in the month since the report became public. Before the release, many Democrats adopted a "wait for Mueller" stance, basing their anti-Trump strategy on the hope that Mueller would find the much-anticipated conspiracy.

Then Mueller did not deliver.

*snip*

Full Story
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#2 User is offline   That_Guy 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 10:09 AM

View PostLiz, on 20 May 2019 - 10:03 AM, said:

Mueller Changed Everything

Washington Examiner
by Byron York
May 19, 2019 05:00 PM

Excerpt:

The special counsel's office interviewed 500 witnesses, issued 2,800 subpoenas, executed nearly 500 search-and-seizure warrants, and obtained nearly 300 records of electronic communications, and still could not establish the one thing that mattered most in the investigation.

Without a judgment that a conspiracy ó or collusion, in the popular phrase ó took place, everything else in the Trump-Russia affair began to shrink in significance.


Saying that it couldnít be established well enough to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt is NOT some kind of judgment that it didnít take place.
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#3 User is offline   MTP Reggie 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 10:22 AM

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#4 User is offline   stick 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 10:33 AM

View PostThat_Guy, on 20 May 2019 - 10:09 AM, said:

Saying that it couldnít be established well enough to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt is NOT some kind of judgment that it didnít take place.


This affair was never destined to be nor can be tried in a court of law - but you already knew that.

Trump's fate rests on two potential outcomes: impeachment, which Democrats don't have the evidence, the balls or the votes to accomplish and even so would result in President Pence, or 2: voted out of office.

Anything else that comes from you and your fevered dreams is :yawn: but it is entertaining to watch you flop around like a freshly hooked rainbow.
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#5 User is offline   Martin 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 10:39 AM

View PostThat_Guy, on 20 May 2019 - 10:09 AM, said:

Saying that it couldn't be established well enough to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt is NOT some kind of judgment that it didn't take place.


If I understand you, you are claiming that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." The trouble with that is, it justifies any opinion in the absence of evidence. It prepares you to believe that flying dragons might exist, in the absence of evidence of them, because no one can prove they do not exist.

The logical principle of Occam's Razor says that in explaining something one should make no more assumptions than necessary. If you have to choose among explanations of something, it is best to choose the simplest one. The simplest explanation why Mueller did not find any evidence that Trump's campaign colluded with the Russians is that Trump's campaign did not collude with the Russians.


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#6 User is offline   Natural Selection 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 11:03 AM

View PostThat_Guy, on 20 May 2019 - 10:09 AM, said:

Saying that it couldnít be established well enough to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt is NOT some kind of judgment that it didnít take place.


http://i.postimg.cc/NFshmHj2/cling-mistake.jpg
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#7 User is offline   That_Guy 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 11:05 AM

View PostMartin, on 20 May 2019 - 10:39 AM, said:

If I understand you


You clearly donít.
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#8 User is offline   USNJIMRET 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 11:17 AM

View PostThat_Guy, on 20 May 2019 - 11:05 AM, said:

You clearly don't.



Oh how cute.
Not one single word of explanation on how/why you are not understood.
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#9 User is offline   That_Guy 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 11:19 AM

View PostUSNJIMRET, on 20 May 2019 - 11:17 AM, said:

Not one single word of explanation on how/why you are not understood.


Is it really necessary to explain the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt?
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#10 User is offline   Natural Selection 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 11:34 AM

View PostThat_Guy, on 20 May 2019 - 11:19 AM, said:

Is it really necessary to explain the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt?


I remember reading in another thread that you were a child molester. While that post didn't meet the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, that doesn't mean it isn't true.
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#11 User is offline   Martin 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 11:37 AM

View PostThat_Guy, on 20 May 2019 - 11:19 AM, said:

Is it really necessary to explain the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt?


Yes, it does appear necessary to explain it to you. Robert Mueller conducted an exhaustive investigation into the question whether the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians in the 2016 election. He employed 19 lawyers and 40 FBI staff members. He interviewed 500 witnesses and issued 2,800 subpoenas, executed 500 search warrants and issued 13 requests to foreign governments. He spent 22 months at this and $25 million. He reported that he found no good evidence that the Trump campaign had colluded with the Russians. If such a lengthy, elaborate investigation does not convince you, it is because no amount of evidence will convince you of facts you don't like.



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#12 User is offline   That_Guy 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 12:13 PM

View PostMartin, on 20 May 2019 - 11:37 AM, said:

He reported that he found no good evidence that the Trump campaign had colluded with the Russians.


You should re-read the Special Counselís report.
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#13 User is offline   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 12:15 PM

View PostThat_Guy, on 20 May 2019 - 10:09 AM, said:

Saying that it couldnít be established well enough to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt is NOT some kind of judgment that it didnít take place.

Absolute :bs:
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#14 User is offline   Joe the Pagan 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 12:18 PM

View PostMartin, on 20 May 2019 - 10:39 AM, said:

If I understand you, you are claiming that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." The trouble with that is, it justifies any opinion in the absence of evidence. It prepares you to believe that flying dragons might exist, in the absence of evidence of them, because no one can prove they do not exist.

The logical principle of Occam's Razor says that in explaining something one should make no more assumptions than necessary. If you have to choose among explanations of something, it is best to choose the simplest one. The simplest explanation why Mueller did not find any evidence that Trump's campaign colluded with the Russians is that Trump's campaign did not collude with the Russians.


If you want to understand That_NPC I suggest you read two books. When Prophecy Fails by Leon Festinger, Henry Riecken and Stanley Schachter and When Prophecy Never Fails: Myth and Reality in a Flying-Saucer Group by Diana G. Tumminia. Both deal with UFO cults and how their members reacted when the things they predicted did not come true. In both cases the cults followers belief increased. That_NPC is reacting just like the members in the cults.

In an odd coincidence Leon Festinger developed cognitive dissonance theory after observing the cult in When Prophecy Fails, and That_NPC's used to post under the name derived from "cognitive dissonance".

He is sounding like the cult in this video.

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#15 User is offline   Coach 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 12:37 PM

View PostThat_Guy, on 20 May 2019 - 12:13 PM, said:

You should re-read the Special Counselís report.




Are Mueller's conclusions going to change ?
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#16 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 12:48 PM

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Hey folks - Quit trying to disabuse the idiot leftists of their hilariously stupid fantasies that Trump "colluded" with Russia. The more they double-down on that insanity the more they destroy their chances in 2020. Nobody who isn't already insane is gonna fall for anything so preposterous. So let 'em rant. Let 'em spew their stupidities. All they're doing is destroying their 2020 chances.

B)
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#17 User is offline   Buckwheat Jones 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 01:09 PM

View PostThat_Guy, on 20 May 2019 - 10:09 AM, said:

Saying that it couldnít be established well enough to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt is NOT some kind of judgment that it didnít take place.

You keep telling your little progressive friends that, because the independents and the libertarians who swing the vote just donít give a <censored>.
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#18 User is offline   Buckwheat Jones 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 01:11 PM

😀
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#19 User is offline   That_Guy 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 01:11 PM

View PostBuckwheat Jones, on 20 May 2019 - 01:09 PM, said:

You keep telling your little progressive friends that, because the independents and the libertarians who swing the vote just donít give a <censored>.


Okay.

And you and your little Republican friends keep telling yourselves that youíre really independents and libertarians.

This post has been edited by That_Guy: 20 May 2019 - 01:12 PM

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#20 User is offline   NH Populist 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 01:19 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 20 May 2019 - 12:48 PM, said:

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Hey folks - Quit trying to disabuse the idiot leftists of their hilariously stupid fantasies that Trump "colluded" with Russia. The more they double-down on that insanity the more they destroy their chances in 2020. Nobody who isn't already insane is gonna fall for anything so preposterous. So let 'em rant. Let 'em spew their stupidities. All they're doing is destroying their 2020 chances.

B)

Actually, Donald Trump's doing a helluva job at destroying Leftists' chances in 2020... :rofl: :woot:
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