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#1 User is offline   MTP Reggie 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 07:46 AM

The vote-by-phone tech trend is scaring the life out of security experts
By EVAN HALPER
MAY 16, 2019 6 AM
San Diego Union Tribune

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With their playbook for pushing government boundaries as a guide, some Silicon Valley investors are nudging election officials toward an innovation that prominent coders and cryptographers warn is downright dangerous for democracy.

Voting by phone could be coming soon to an election near you.

As seasoned disruptors of the status quo, tech pioneers have proven persuasive in selling the idea, even as the National Academies of Science, Engineering and Medicine specifically warn against any such experiment.

The fight over mobile voting pits technologists who warn about the risks of entrusting voting to apps and cellphones against others who see internet voting as the only hope for getting most Americans to consistently participate on election day.

"There are so many things that could go wrong," said Marian Schneider, president of Verified Voting, a coalition of computer scientists and government transparency advocates pushing for more-secure elections. "It is an odd time for this to be gaining momentum."

Behind the vote-by-phone push is a political operative who grew rich helping Uber elbow its way onto city streets and Bird populate the sidewalks with electric scooters, and who sees mobile voting as a potential cure for an ailing democracy.

Bradley Tusk is using the same tactics in this personal crusade that he used to advance tech startups. He has bet a significant share of the fortune he built off his equity stake in Uber that the gospel of mobile voting will spread so fast that most Americans will have the option of casting their ballots for president by phone as soon as 2028.

He has already persuaded the state of West Virginia and the City of Denver to start tinkering with voting by phone, and hopes to move quickly from there.

"What we learned at Uber is once the genie is out of the bottle, it can't be put it back in," said Tusk, a venture capitalist who managed former New York Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg's reelection campaign before bouncing to Silicon Valley. In the tech world, he invests in startups that face political and regulatory hurdles, then helps knock those hurdles down by galvanizing the public's appetite for game-changing innovations.

Tusk is certain participation in elections would surge if the technology were widely permitted, even though studies in some of the few places around the world that have tried the method revealed no big turnout boost. Although turnout for the 2018 midterm election was the highest in more than a century, it still brought out only about half of eligible Americans. And while turnout has gone up for presidential contests, it has dropped sharply for many state and local elections around the country.

(snip)

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#2 User is online   zurg 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:17 AM

Itís not necessarily the voting software and the electronics that are the problem. Hackers wonít be able to guess your password except for really stupid people (but the system can prevent you from choosing simple passwords).

Itís more likely the human side - people being careless with their personal information that can be used to register and vote. Like the Target breach a few years ago - caused by a username/password written on a service portal computer that was on the Target system. Why was it there? Because multiple people needed access. Things like this keep it from being ďsecretĒ. All the 1,024-bit encryption in the world wonít help. Itís the people, stupid.
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#3 User is offline   Severian 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:28 AM

Well, to be perfectly safe we need to just let the Democrat politicians vote for everyone and save the people the trouble. I am DERPTACUS!
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#4 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:39 AM

Quote

The fight over mobile voting pits technologists who warn about the risks of entrusting voting to apps and cellphones against others who see internet voting as the only hope for getting most Americans to consistently participate on election day.


Sorry, but "getting most Americans" to participate in voting isn't a desirable goal.

Everybody who is legally qualified to vote can vote. If you want to be politically informed, you can be. If you want legal ID, you can get it. If you want to vote, you can.

People who just can't be bothered? We don't need their input. Who wants important elections to be decided by people who don't care?

:hairpull:
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#5 User is offline   Coach 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 12:56 PM

Voting should be in person, paper ballot, with I.D., one day only, absentee submitted one week ahead.
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#6 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 01:20 PM

View Postzurg, on 17 May 2019 - 09:17 AM, said:

It's not necessarily the voting software and the electronics that are the problem. Hackers won't be able to guess your password except for really stupid people (but the system can prevent you from choosing simple passwords).

It's more likely the human side - people being careless with their personal information that can be used to register and vote. Like the Target breach a few years ago - caused by a username/password written on a service portal computer that was on the Target system. Why was it there? Because multiple people needed access. Things like this keep it from being "secret". All the 1,024-bit encryption in the world won't help. It's the people, stupid.


Sorry, simple concept here, how many people own multiple phones? Law enforcement personnel have 2, other businesses have more than two. I routinely see young thugs with 3 or 4. Now imagine each of those phones can drop 1 vote each. How many votes is that per person? You can't fix this with the concept of honesty. This is just an opportunity to allow people to cheat and allow non hard copy voting. Once that happens there will routinely be 400 Million votes for the DNC while the RNC suddenly is unable to garner 100,000 votes. Fraud is the opportunity here.
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#7 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 01:20 PM

View PostCoach, on 17 May 2019 - 12:56 PM, said:

Voting should be in person, paper ballot, with I.D., one day only, absentee submitted one week ahead.


Yes on all counts.

And as I said in the previous post: Those who can't be bothered? Tough. We don't want or need input from people who just don't care.

B)
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#8 User is offline   Coach 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 01:42 PM

View PostSeverian, on 17 May 2019 - 09:28 AM, said:

Well, to be perfectly safe we need to just let the Democrat politicians vote for everyone and save the people the trouble. I am DERPTACUS!



Your quote from Eric Hoffer brings back memories. He was one of those TOXIC ones.
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#9 User is online   zurg 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 05:25 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 17 May 2019 - 09:39 AM, said:

Sorry, but "getting most Americans" to participate in voting isn't a desirable goal.

Everybody who is legally qualified to vote can vote. If you want to be politically informed, you can be. If you want legal ID, you can get it. If you want to vote, you can.

People who just can't be bothered? We don't need their input. Who wants important elections to be decided by people who don't care?

:hairpull:

I totally agree. Itís a good self-imposed filter. And it prevents someone doing it for you.
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#10 User is online   zurg 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 05:28 PM

View PostTaggart Transcontinental, on 17 May 2019 - 01:20 PM, said:

Sorry, simple concept here, how many people own multiple phones? Law enforcement personnel have 2, other businesses have more than two. I routinely see young thugs with 3 or 4. Now imagine each of those phones can drop 1 vote each. How many votes is that per person? You can't fix this with the concept of honesty. This is just an opportunity to allow people to cheat and allow non hard copy voting. Once that happens there will routinely be 400 Million votes for the DNC while the RNC suddenly is unable to garner 100,000 votes. Fraud is the opportunity here.

Iím sure it would have to be login based for counting rather than device ID or MAC ID based. You would have to let multiple people use one device and one person not to use multiple devices.

(By the way, requiring a login, which in turn will require identification, an address, an email, etc, would eventually be called racist by the left.)
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#11 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 05:35 PM

View Postzurg, on 17 May 2019 - 05:25 PM, said:

I totally agree. Itís a good self-imposed filter. And it prevents someone doing it for you.


Yeah, "self-imposed filter" is a perfect description. There are millions of people who just aren't interested in voting, or keeping up with current affairs, or being politically informed, etc etc. Why on earth would anybody want to encourage those clueless morons to vote on important issues???

:scratch:
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#12 User is online   zurg 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 05:46 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 17 May 2019 - 05:35 PM, said:

Yeah, "self-imposed filter" is a perfect description. There are millions of people who just aren't interested in voting, or keeping up with current affairs, or being politically informed, etc etc. Why on earth would anybody want to encourage those clueless morons to vote on important issues???

:scratch:

ďHereís $20. Go vote for everyone with (D) after their name. If you can find a (D) leave it blank.Ē
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#13 User is online   gravelrash 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 05:48 PM

View Postzurg, on 17 May 2019 - 05:46 PM, said:

ďHereís $20. Go vote for everyone with (D) after their name. If you can find a (D) leave it blank.Ē


Twenty bucks? Are you trying to start a bidding war? The Democrats in Omaha bus the homeless to vote for a pack of cigarettes.
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#14 User is online   zurg 

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 06:22 PM

View Postgravelrash, on 17 May 2019 - 05:48 PM, said:

Twenty bucks? Are you trying to start a bidding war? The Democrats in Omaha bus the homeless to vote for a pack of cigarettes.

Hey thatís cool, I can get 4-5 times the votes. (Actually I have no idea how much a pack of cigarettes is.)
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#15 User is offline   Alexis 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 12:04 PM

View PostCoach, on 17 May 2019 - 12:56 PM, said:

Voting should be in person, paper ballot, with I.D., one day only, absentee submitted one week ahead.


The dems will never allow it, especially the ID, that makes perfect sense. Everyone had ID already. Practically everything you do requires an ID.
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#16 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 12:31 PM

View Postzurg, on 17 May 2019 - 09:17 AM, said:

Itís not necessarily the voting software and the electronics that are the problem. Hackers wonít be able to guess your password except for really stupid people (but the system can prevent you from choosing simple passwords).

Itís more likely the human side - people being careless with their personal information that can be used to register and vote. Like the Target breach a few years ago - caused by a username/password written on a service portal computer that was on the Target system. Why was it there? Because multiple people needed access. Things like this keep it from being ďsecretĒ. All the 1,024-bit encryption in the world wonít help. Itís the people, stupid.


The USA's current Caller ID system is broken. It's WAY too easy to insert a fake phone number so that the other party thinks YOU are calling. Likewise the IMEIs (Essentially, the serial number of a smart phone). At a very minimum, THIS would need to be fixed before I'd trust any vote-by phone system, because I'd want the election officials to be able to validate not just WHO voted but HOW they voted and right now I just don't trust the phone equipment. Especially anything made in China.

Gadget Council: How To Change IMEI, Device ID of Any Android Device

Passwords? That someone has to remember only once every two years or so? Willing to bet that 99.9% of voters will choose a password that they regularly use elsewhere.
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