[Wyn]

US, Japan Reach Agreement to Move 9,000 Marines

April 27, 2012
Luis Ramirez
Voice of America

Excerpt:

The United States and Japan have reached an agreement to move about 9,000 U.S. Marines on the Japanese island of Okinawa to locations outside of Japan. U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, traveling in Santiago, Chile, Thursday, is applauding the deal that will see the Marines moved to other locations in the Asia-Pacific region.

The agreement comes after years of protests by Japanese residents of Okinawa who have complained of crime, noise, and occasional incidents of bad behavior by U.S troops based on the island.

The United States and Japan issued a joint statement announcing the deal, which comes after years of negotiations that have been stalled by political controversy in both countries. U.S. Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta called it an important agreement.

Pentagon spokesman George Little says the deal is in line with the administration's new defense strategy that calls for a shift in focus to the Asia Pacific region, along with the Middle East. “It signals our commitment to Japan," he explained. "It signals our commitment to Asia Pacific and it is a reflection of our emphasis on Asia Pacific.”

Little says the timeline for moving the Marines out of Okinawa is yet to be set. “At the end of the day we're looking at drawing down about 9,000 and repositioning from Okinawa and repositioning about 5,000 or so to Guam and this is perfectly consistent with what we've been talking about for some time with our Japanese allies,” he said.

http://www.voanews.c...-149204505.html
==============================================================================

Guess they convinced this moron that Guam wouldn't actually tip over with the additional troops stationed there...

[vectorsrule]

I have no problem with this. After 60 years it is time Asia, Europe, AU-NZ start paying for their own defense!

[Taliesin]

vectorsrule, on 27 April 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

I have no problem with this. After 60 years it is time Asia, Europe, AU-NZ start paying for their own defense!

Indeed. I'd like to see a solid rewrite of the agreement that came at the end of WWII allowing Japan to have a true military and not a tiny SDF.

[Wyn]

vectorsrule, on 27 April 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

I have no problem with this. After 60 years it is time Asia, Europe, AU-NZ start paying for their own defense!

In 2007 the Japanese government paid the US government about $2 billion for host nation support for GIs stationed in Japan.

http://en.wikipedia....es_Forces_Japan

I know it's Wiki, but I read a similar figure in a book years ago.

[scotsman]

Quote

I have no problem with this. After 60 years it is time Asia, Europe, AU-NZ start paying for their own defense!

Whoa. Lay off the Aussie-Kiwi bashing. Both nations pay their own way, and you would do well to remember their alliance and their sacrifice fighting beside you in Vietnam. And Korea. And Afghanistan.

And I hope 'Europe' dosent include us.

[Taggart Transcontinental]

scotsman, on 27 April 2012 - 10:44 AM, said:

Whoa. Lay off the Aussie-Kiwi bashing. Both nations pay their own way, and you would do well to remember their alliance and their sacrifice fighting beside you in Vietnam. And Korea. And Afghanistan.

And I hope 'Europe' dosent include us.

Forgot Iraq as well.

[Hieronymous]

scotsman, on 27 April 2012 - 10:44 AM, said:

Whoa. Lay off the Aussie-Kiwi bashing. Both nations pay their own way, and you would do well to remember their alliance and their sacrifice fighting beside you in Vietnam. And Korea. And Afghanistan.

And I hope 'Europe' dosent include us.

I think it's more along the lines of you don't include Europe.

This post has been edited by Hieronymous: 27 April 2012 - 01:54 PM

[Hieronymous]

Wyn, on 27 April 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

In 2007 the Japanese government paid the US government about $2 billion for host nation support for GIs stationed in Japan.

http://en.wikipedia....es_Forces_Japan

I know it's Wiki, but I read a similar figure in a book years ago.

I've seen that too. Not like we are doing charity work.

[scotsman]

Quote

Forgot Iraq as well.

Yes I did.

But then I am an idiot.

[Timothy]

Taliesin, on 27 April 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

Indeed. I'd like to see a solid rewrite of the agreement that came at the end of WWII allowing Japan to have a true military and not a tiny SDF.

It's kind of absurd that Japan's military policy is still based on a response to an old Japanese culture in a war 70 years ago. It's very antiquated, doesn't reflect the status and respectability of modern Japan, and should be changed.

[Hieronymous]

Timothy, on 28 April 2012 - 02:15 AM, said:

It's kind of absurd that Japan's military policy is still based on a response to an old Japanese culture in a war 70 years ago. It's very antiquated, doesn't reflect the status and respectability of modern Japan, and should be changed.

In addition, Japan should probably be very worried about China. 70 years ago or not, I don't think the Chinese have forgotten.

[vectorsrule]

scotsman, on 27 April 2012 - 10:44 AM, said:

Whoa. Lay off the Aussie-Kiwi bashing. Both nations pay their own way, and you would do well to remember their alliance and their sacrifice fighting beside you in Vietnam. And Korea. And Afghanistan.

And I hope 'Europe' dosent include us.

I wasn't aware I was "bashing." I appreciate our allies and their efforts. However, the fact is if the United States didn't exists your defense budget would be 3X what it would be today. At one point the NY Police department had more men at arms than the Nation of Canada. Look at this chart: http://en.wikipedia....ry_expenditures

The reason it is insanely high for the US is because it is insanely low for our allies. Now, before you read something my words. Our Allies are brave, strong, honorable. I am flatly saying if America did not exist it is highly unlikely either would you (worse case) and if you were still speaking English (Vs. Japanese, German or Russian)your defense budget would be 3X what it is today in order for these commonwealth, Asia and European Allies to defend themselves.

[vectorsrule]

Hieronymous, on 27 April 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

I've seen that too. Not like we are doing charity work.

Japan's defense spending is about one tenth of America's, roughly $30 billion a year versus roughly $300 billion. If we use NATO's system of measuring defense budgets, which includes (as Japan's does not) military pensions and other costs in the total, Japan's spending comes to about 1.7 percent of its GNP. This is still much less than that of any major Western country. In terms of the burden the country imposes on itself, Japan has at most the twentieth-largest military budget in the world. http://www.theatlant...9apr/defend.htm

U.S. Forces are dispersed among 91 facilities located on Honshu, Kyushu, and Okinawa. Total acreage of U.S. bases is approximately 78,000 acres. The annual cost of stationing U.S. Forces in Japan in 1995 was approximately $7.6B. Of this amount, the Government of Japan paid $4.25B of the cost. http://www.globalsec...cy/dod/usfj.htm


Looks like charity work to me. If you can do simple math it will look like charity work to you to.

[scotsman]

Quote

I wasn't aware I was "bashing." I appreciate our allies and their efforts. However, the fact is if the United States didn't exists your defense budget would be 3X what it would be today. At one point the NY Police department had more men at arms than the Nation of Canada. Look at this chart: http://en.wikipedia....ry_expenditures

The reason it is insanely high for the US is because it is insanely low for our allies. Now, before you read something my words. Our Allies are brave, strong, honorable. I am flatly saying if America did not exist it is highly unlikely either would you (worse case) and if you were still speaking English (Vs. Japanese, German or Russian)your defense budget would be 3X what it is today in order for these commonwealth, Asia and European Allies to defend themselves.

Agreed.

All I am saying is dont confuse that the likes of the UK, Australia, Canada and NZ (also South Africa and France) having lower budgets means 'relying' on America, its huge military power and projection, and its largesse.

Most of your allies do rely on you. All I am saying is not all do though.

Most. I wouldnt say the British budget is insanely low, we always punch above our weight and therefore spend above our weight. IMO you could say the same for Australia, NZ, Canada, and in Europe, France.

[random_stuff]

vectorsrule, on 30 April 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

The annual cost of stationing U.S. Forces in Japan in 1995 was approximately $7.6B. Of this amount, the Government of Japan paid $4.25B of the cost. http://www.globalsec...cy/dod/usfj.htm

Looks like charity work to me. If you can do simple math it will look like charity work to you to.

Especially if you consider the $ the troops pour into the Japanese economy... I'm sure that "repays" a good part of what Japan spent, not to mention the Japanese that are employed by the US military to work on base.

[vectorsrule]

scotsman, on 30 April 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

Agreed.

All I am saying is dont confuse that the likes of the UK, Australia, Canada and NZ (also South Africa and France) having lower budgets means 'relying' on America, its huge military power and projection, and its largesse.

Most of your allies do rely on you. All I am saying is not all do though.

Most. I wouldnt say the British budget is insanely low, we always punch above our weight and therefore spend above our weight. IMO you could say the same for Australia, NZ, Canada, and in Europe, France.

Agreed. The UK has outstanding weapon systems across all their services, Assault Rifles, Ships, Combat Aircraft are all first rate and across the board. Scotsman, it the numbers (of those things) I have a problem with. All these nations you name are far more Socialist than the US. They have a huge amount of their budget going to social welfare systems. The more their welfare grows, the smaller their defense budgets. Now the the US is doing the same thing.

Bottom line, the world hates and resents America and I am part of the growing feeling here that we have done enough for the world. Let them have their wish, bring our troops home, and let's all together watch what happens.