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#1 User is offline   Coach 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 12:03 PM

I heard some so called expert talking against gun ownership because it would lead to a wild west. Hell it already exists except that not enough good guys are armed.

Half the people in leadership are fools.
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#2 User is offline   jr_tex 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 12:40 PM

There are as many guns out there as there are people in the USA. If the "Wild West" has not happened yet, it will not. Plus the wild west wasn't as wild as the movies portray.

My "so called expert" opinion is we have less social pressure to prevent people from acting out. The "interwebs" allows people to find like minded people and suddenly they are not oddballs. I think we will see more of these actions in the future as our society devolves into a more secular, non-judging society.

Another reason to stay armed and trained.
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#3 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 12:53 PM

Truth is the 'Wild West' was largely a well oiled propaganda machine to sell dime store type novels to city slickers back east.
Stories of gun fights, murder. mayhem, hero and villeins sold well, real well.

Reality is that by in large if you where a law abiding citizen who wasn't out being stupid or looking for trouble it was actually safer.
Nearly all the violence was between outlaws and Police(which by today's standards were often as bad as the outlaws).

Another interesting footnote is the fact that crimes against the innocent where actually quite rare, so where bloody disputes between cattle owners and farmers. It did happen, but most of the time they worked things out. Then again, no one wanted to read about Farmer and Beef Barron work things out and avoid bloodshed. Per guns, that had a lot to do with things. IE do something stupid and you'll probably be shot no questions asked.


Oki
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#4 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 01:14 PM

View PostCoach, on 06 November 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

I heard some so called expert talking against gun ownership because it would lead to a wild west. Hell it already exists except that not enough good guys are armed.

Half the people in leadership are fools.


"Half"? I think you're being way too generous.

B)
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#5 User is offline   Coach 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 01:30 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 06 November 2017 - 01:14 PM, said:

"Half"? I think you're being way too generous.

B)



You are correct, my bad.
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#6 User is offline   Coach 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 01:34 PM

One of the best courses I took in college was "The History of the Westward Movement". The three most important individuals on the frontier were the circuit preacher, lawman and school marm.

That tells a lot more about the social dynamic of the West than the designation as "wild".
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#7 User is offline   Severian 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 01:51 PM

View Postoki, on 06 November 2017 - 12:53 PM, said:

Truth is the 'Wild West' was largely a well oiled propaganda machine to sell dime store type novels to city slickers back east.
Stories of gun fights, murder. mayhem, hero and villeins sold well, real well.

Reality is that by in large if you where a law abiding citizen who wasn't out being stupid or looking for trouble it was actually safer.
Nearly all the violence was between outlaws and Police(which by today's standards were often as bad as the outlaws).

Another interesting footnote is the fact that crimes against the innocent where actually quite rare, so where bloody disputes between cattle owners and farmers. It did happen, but most of the time they worked things out. Then again, no one wanted to read about Farmer and Beef Barron work things out and avoid bloodshed. Per guns, that had a lot to do with things. IE do something stupid and you'll probably be shot no questions asked.


Oki

The Duck Of Death. Heh...
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#8 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 02:19 PM

View PostSeverian, on 06 November 2017 - 01:51 PM, said:

The Duck Of Death. Heh...



That's what I always liked about Eastwoods movies. Far closer to the truth.

Oki
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#9 User is offline   Severian 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 03:25 PM

View Postoki, on 06 November 2017 - 02:19 PM, said:

That's what I always liked about Eastwoods movies. Far closer to the truth.

Oki

I think in many ways that was the most believable western I've ever seen. No one was a good guy, not Eastwood's character, not the sheriff either by a long shot. I don't deserve this, I was building a house. Deserve's got nothin to do with it. Bang.
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#10 User is offline   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 03:39 PM

View PostCoach, on 06 November 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

I heard some so called expert talking against gun ownership because it would lead to a wild west. Hell it already exists except that not enough good guys are armed.

Half the people in leadership are fools.

They said that concealed carry permits "would turn our streets into Dodge City" which did not happen as is most of all the "wild west" cowboys quick draw shoot out stuff. It was all made up by the Buffalo Bill show. None of it really ever happened.
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#11 User is offline   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 03:41 PM

View Postoki, on 06 November 2017 - 12:53 PM, said:

Truth is the 'Wild West' was largely a well oiled propaganda machine to sell dime store type novels to city slickers back east.
Stories of gun fights, murder. mayhem, hero and villeins sold well, real well.

Reality is that by in large if you where a law abiding citizen who wasn't out being stupid or looking for trouble it was actually safer.
Nearly all the violence was between outlaws and Police(which by today's standards were often as bad as the outlaws).

Another interesting footnote is the fact that crimes against the innocent where actually quite rare, so where bloody disputes between cattle owners and farmers. It did happen, but most of the time they worked things out. Then again, no one wanted to read about Farmer and Beef Barron work things out and avoid bloodshed. Per guns, that had a lot to do with things. IE do something stupid and you'll probably be shot no questions asked.


Oki

Again, all of it was made up by the Buffalo Bill traveling show.
Hollweird adopted it along with all of their other propaganda.
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#12 User is offline   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 03:42 PM

View Postoki, on 06 November 2017 - 02:19 PM, said:

That's what I always liked about Eastwoods movies. Far closer to the truth.

Oki

Yet still miles away from the truth.

Eastwood's movies are all made up lore as well.
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#13 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 03:52 PM

View PostSeverian, on 06 November 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

I think in many ways that was the most believable western I've ever seen. No one was a good guy, not Eastwood's character, not the sheriff either by a long shot. I don't deserve this, I was building a house. Deserve's got nothin to do with it. Bang.



That's it exactly, in many cases the guy with a badge was only slightly better then the bad guy. People need to realize that if all things played out the same know days, both parties would be in jail. You think Cops are mean and nasty know days? Boy o boy would people be in for a surprise if they lived back then. Thing is you had to be a mean and nasty son of b$tch back then if you wore a badge, your life depended on it. I think one of biggest misconceptions is that regular people where often the victims of outlaws, I am sure many where, but truth is that was a much much bigger problem back east in large 'gentrified' cities then it was on the Frontier. One, people where armed, a home invasion would get you shot no questions asked and probably not even much if any investigation by the cops. Two, it was very very bad for business so to speak, even if you did survive not only would you have a posse going after you real quick, you'd also have a lunch mob.

Oki
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#14 User is offline   swede1962 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 03:56 PM

View PostCoach, on 06 November 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

One of the best courses I took in college was "The History of the Westward Movement". The three most important individuals on the frontier were the circuit preacher, lawman and school marm.

That tells a lot more about the social dynamic of the West than the designation as "wild".


I don't know-MY "school marm" can get pretty wild! :eyebrows:
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#15 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 04:03 PM

The title keeps making me hear The Escape Club.
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#16 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 04:05 PM

View PostRock N, on 06 November 2017 - 03:41 PM, said:

Again, all of it was made up by the Buffalo Bill traveling show.
Hollweird adopted it along with all of their other propaganda.



Well, yes and no. Hollywood adapted movies from the dime store novels and took it to a whole new level. I think there are a couple of shoot outs at high noon, but yeah, your right those simply didn't happen. Stabbings and shoot outs at the saloon, those did, but of coarse that isn't as flashy as a shootout in the streets or someone getting shot in the back walking down an alleyway, much less od'ng from to much of something.

Just saying Eastwood's movies did a much better job of charachter portrayal in the fact that even the Good Guys were barely any better than the 'villeins'. Hell, I doubt it's a stretch to say if Wyatt Earp was still alive he'd probably be in jail.

Oki
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#17 User is offline   Severian 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 04:13 PM

View PostRock N, on 06 November 2017 - 03:39 PM, said:

They said that concealed carry permits "would turn our streets into Dodge City" which did not happen as is most of all the "wild west" cowboys quick draw shoot out stuff. It was all made up by the Buffalo Bill show. None of it really ever happened.

They say the same thing every time a state adopts Constitutional Carry and it hasn't happened either.
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#18 User is online   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 04:49 PM

View PostCoach, on 06 November 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

One of the best courses I took in college was "The History of the Westward Movement". The three most important individuals on the frontier were the circuit preacher, lawman and school marm.

That tells a lot more about the social dynamic of the West than the designation as "wild".


Formative years were in southern Indiana. Grade school thorough HS much was glorified about "Frontier Days", harkening back to when Indiana et al WERE the frontier as part of the "Northwest Purchase". The local HS sports teams are STILL called "The Pioneers".

School Marms?
God love 'em. In Indiana "frontier" history, The NW purchase was the first to be divided by RTS (Range-Township-Section) surveying. In Indiana, one section (640 acres) of every township set aside for education. Except, no funding. Churches stepped in. Catholics in the northern half, Quakers in the southern half.

"Lawman"? Can't really speak to that , much that I wish i could. NO I'm NOT a "lawman".
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#19 User is online   Howsithangin 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 04:53 PM

View PostRock N, on 06 November 2017 - 03:39 PM, said:

They said that concealed carry permits "would turn our streets into Dodge City" which did not happen as is most of all the "wild west" cowboys quick draw shoot out stuff. It was all made up by the Buffalo Bill show. None of it really ever happened.

Even current data regarding cities and areas with heavy concealed carry permits refutes this silliness. Ah well, never let facts get in the way of an agenda, eh?

Sorry Severian, just saw your post!

This post has been edited by Howsithangin: 06 November 2017 - 04:54 PM

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#20 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 04:54 PM

View PostSeverian, on 06 November 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

They say the same thing every time a state adopts Constitutional Carry and it hasn't happened either.


Ignorant of the facts, dependent for both personal security as well as sustenance, this is the most reliable of all of voters.


Oki
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