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#21 User is offline   Natural Selection 

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 01:11 PM

View PostAntonToo, on 06 December 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

JTC DOES NOT claim that ANY of the tax-cut types contained in the bill EVER self-finance. You shamelessly made up that claim.


Work on your reading comprehension. I never said that JCT made that claim. It's an obvious conclusion based on the trend starting in 2021 along with some economic common sense.

Ask yourself this...when a business founder borrows money to start his business he assumes a deficit. He may continue to add to his deficit as his business grows. At some point, if his business is successful, it starts to turn a profit and eventually pays off it's debt. Trump is trying to do the same thing with the United States despite democrats fighting progress every step of the way.

Quote

Reason 2027 shows positive revenue VS baseline is because TAXES GO UP AFTER 2025, when all of the individual tax changes in the bill EXPIRE


Are you sure that "expire" automatically means a return to previous rates? Do you have a source for that? Or did you just shamelessly make that up?

By the way, how do you explain the downward trend before individual tax rates expire? Does the concept of economic growth mean anything to you? Or is redistribution the only thing you remember from your communist indoctrination?

This post has been edited by Natural Selection: 06 December 2017 - 01:23 PM

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#22 User is online   RedSoloCup 

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 03:30 PM

View PostAntonToo, on 06 December 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

Pure fantasy with a side of dis-information.

JTC DOES NOT claim that ANY of the tax-cut types contained in the bill EVER self-finance. You shamelessly made up that claim.

Reason 2027 shows positive revenue VS baseline is because TAXES GO UP AFTER 2025, when all of the individual tax changes in the bill EXPIRE, dynamic effects from tax-cuts from prior years are still making their way through economy and finally Obamacare subsidies spending is down because more people are now without healthcare insurance.



umm no you don't. Our deficit towards the end on 2020's is expected to hit staggering 1.5 trillion ALREADY, without any tax-cuts. Your completely un-quantified wishey-hopey immigrant claims certainly would not resolve that giant baseline deficit.


:yawn:

More MSNBC/CNN psychobabble.

Too bad your "vacation" wasn't permanent, Pajama Boy.
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#23 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 03:42 PM

View PostAntonToo, on 06 December 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

Pure fantasy with a side of dis-information.

JTC DOES NOT claim that ANY of the tax-cut types contained in the bill EVER self-finance. You shamelessly made up that claim.

Reason 2027 shows positive revenue VS baseline is because TAXES GO UP AFTER 2025, when all of the individual tax changes in the bill EXPIRE, dynamic effects from tax-cuts from prior years are still making their way through economy and finally Obamacare subsidies spending is down because more people are now without healthcare insurance.



umm no you don't. Our deficit towards the end on 2020's is expected to hit staggering 1.5 trillion ALREADY, without any tax-cuts. Your completely un-quantified wishey-hopey immigrant claims certainly would not resolve that giant baseline deficit.



Hey Anton, what happened to revenues after Kennedy cut taxes? How about Reagan? How about Clinton? How about Bush?
Three choices, up, down, or unchanged.

Oki
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#24 User is offline   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 03:52 PM

View PostBookdoc, on 05 December 2017 - 12:36 AM, said:

The angrier and more moronic they become, the happier I am. Trump's programs are driving libtards in the dimocrat party and the media completely out of their minds.
I am not tired of winning... :popcorn:

This is what us Trump supporters have been trying to tell all of the establishment loving #nevertrumpers who post here who keep on whining, pissing and moaning about how Trump is such a childish meanie and needs to stop fighting back with tweets.
Their way is for losers and has been proven to be for 4 decades now.

They just don't get it? :shrug:

This is how to fight and win NOW.

If they don't like it, then STFU and vote democrap because they are all one in the same: :crybaby2:

This post has been edited by Rock N' Roll Right Winger: 06 December 2017 - 04:03 PM

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#25 User is offline   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 03:53 PM

View PostBig Dave, on 05 December 2017 - 07:35 AM, said:

This from the one who oversaw what was truly the worst piece of trash to ever be signed into law.....

Because she IS trash. ;)

And if she hates something then it must be good for the people?

Whatever she's against, I'm for and vice versa.

This post has been edited by Rock N' Roll Right Winger: 06 December 2017 - 04:27 PM

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#26 User is offline   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 03:56 PM

View PostAntonToo, on 05 December 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

I've been asking this question elsewhere without any coherent answer so lets see if any conservative can give a rational responce here:

Given sudden belief on the right that the economy is nothing short of booming under Trump and current deficit outlook that is growing out of control within a decade (see bellow), why is it a good idea to increase deficit by another TRILLION dollars (that is a JCT dynamic estimate, 1.7 trillion is CBO's static estimate) primarily to gift to corporations, wall street and investors, huge tax breaks?

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/2017/11/02/USATODAY/USATODAY/636452372725287683-11-03-17-Opposing-view-GOP-tax-plan-online-Online.png


This is not going to create any significant investment or improvement in employment (because corporations are ALREADY sitting on tons of cash and there is no shortage of investment). Don't believe me? Listen to this CEO All this is going to do is line the pockets of investors to whom corporations have fiduciary responsibility to.


Given the deficits these tax-cuts today will simply become tomorrow's tax-raises, plus interest, minus growth.

WHY IS IT A GOOD IDEA TO DO THIS?

Since when TF have you ever been worried about any deficit?

You loved your Obamunist driving us into debt by more than all of the US presidents together combined in the entire history of this country?
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#27 User is offline   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 03:57 PM

View PostNoclevermoniker, on 05 December 2017 - 11:28 AM, said:

None of this bothered you when Barry the Poof was in charge. Why now the change of heart?

:exactly:

Beat me to it! :D

This post has been edited by Rock N' Roll Right Winger: 06 December 2017 - 04:03 PM

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#28 User is offline   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 03:59 PM

View PostAntonToo, on 06 December 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

Pure fantasy with a side of dis-information.

JTC DOES NOT claim that ANY of the tax-cut types contained in the bill EVER self-finance. You shamelessly made up that claim.

Reason 2027 shows positive revenue VS baseline is because TAXES GO UP AFTER 2025, when all of the individual tax changes in the bill EXPIRE, dynamic effects from tax-cuts from prior years are still making their way through economy and finally Obamacare subsidies spending is down because more people are now without healthcare insurance.



umm no you don't. Our deficit towards the end on 2020's is expected to hit staggering 1.5 trillion ALREADY, without any tax-cuts. Your completely un-quantified wishey-hopey immigrant claims certainly would not resolve that giant baseline deficit.

So says someone who makes up every claim on every post? :lol:
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#29 User is online   Bookdoc 

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 04:54 PM

View PostRock N, on 06 December 2017 - 03:52 PM, said:

This is what us Trump supporters have been trying to tell all of the establishment loving #nevertrumpers who post here who keep on whining, pissing and moaning about how Trump is such a childish meanie and needs to stop fighting back with tweets.
Their way is for losers and has been proven to be for 4 decades now.

They just don't get it? :shrug:

This is how to fight and win NOW.

If they don't like it, then STFU and vote democrap because they are all one in the same: :crybaby2:

You know, I should've added GOPe rinos to the list as well...
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#30 User is online   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 05:00 PM

View PostAntonToo, on 05 December 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

I've been asking this question elsewhere without any coherent answer so lets see if any conservative can give a rational responce here:

Given sudden belief on the right that the economy is nothing short of booming under Trump and current deficit outlook that is growing out of control within a decade (see bellow), why is it a good idea to increase deficit by another TRILLION dollars (that is a JCT dynamic estimate, 1.7 trillion is CBO's static estimate) primarily to gift to corporations, wall street and investors, huge tax breaks?

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/2017/11/02/USATODAY/USATODAY/636452372725287683-11-03-17-Opposing-view-GOP-tax-plan-online-Online.png


This is not going to create any significant investment or improvement in employment (because corporations are ALREADY sitting on tons of cash and there is no shortage of investment). Don't believe me? Listen to this CEO All this is going to do is line the pockets of investors to whom corporations have fiduciary responsibility to.


Given the deficits these tax-cuts today will simply become tomorrow's tax-raises, plus interest, minus growth.

WHY IS IT A GOOD IDEA TO DO THIS?


Soooo WAIT A MINUTE!

When Obama was spending more money than EVERY PRESIDENT that has ever lived before him, you were posting idiot graphs showing us how that is important for the country to "stimulate" it. Now you are finding the exact opposite graphs to prove that the American people aren't smart enough to spend their own money? You must wear a neck brace with all the cognitive dissonance you deal with!
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#31 User is online   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 05:03 PM

View PostNatural Selection, on 06 December 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

Work on your reading comprehension. I never said that JCT made that claim. It's an obvious conclusion based on the trend starting in 2021 along with some economic common sense.

Ask yourself this...when a business founder borrows money to start his business he assumes a deficit. He may continue to add to his deficit as his business grows. At some point, if his business is successful, it starts to turn a profit and eventually pays off it's debt. Trump is trying to do the same thing with the United States despite democrats fighting progress every step of the way.



Are you sure that "expire" automatically means a return to previous rates? Do you have a source for that? Or did you just shamelessly make that up?

By the way, how do you explain the downward trend before individual tax rates expire? Does the concept of economic growth mean anything to you? Or is redistribution the only thing you remember from your communist indoctrination?


Remember, he's not allowed to have an opinion, he's a leftist, he has to "think" what ever talking points were handed to him today. Us on the other hand are free thinking and capable of making our own determination without massive appeals to authority. It's a foreign concept to the foreigner.
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#32 User is offline   AntonToo 

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 05:43 PM

View PostNatural Selection, on 06 December 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

Work on your reading comprehension. I never said that JCT made that claim. It's an obvious conclusion based on the trend starting in 2021 along with some economic common sense.

Ask yourself this...when a business founder borrows money to start his business he assumes a deficit. He may continue to add to his deficit as his business grows. At some point, if his business is successful, it starts to turn a profit and eventually pays off it's debt. Trump is trying to do the same thing with the United States despite democrats fighting progress every step of the way.



Are you sure that "expire" automatically means a return to previous rates? Do you have a source for that? Or did you just shamelessly make that up?

By the way, how do you explain the downward trend before individual tax rates expire? Does the concept of economic growth mean anything to you? Or is redistribution the only thing you remember from your communist indoctrination?



Yes I'm sure about it. Can you seriously not even do a basic search?

Except for the switch from CPI-U to chained CPI for indexing tax brackets, and setting the ACA individual shared responsibility payments to zero, all of these changes to the taxation of individuals sunset after December 31, 2025.


https://www.jct.gov/...artdown&id=5045

This was original release, to the updated document you linked to.
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#33 User is offline   Moderator T 

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:32 AM

I think Ben Shapiro's reply to Pelosi was best. He asked if this was the worst bill ever, what was her opinion on the Fugitive Slaves Act.
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#34 User is offline   Natural Selection 

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:57 AM

View PostAntonToo, on 06 December 2017 - 05:43 PM, said:

Yes I'm sure about it. Can you seriously not even do a basic search?

Except for the switch from CPI-U to chained CPI for indexing tax brackets, and setting the ACA individual shared responsibility payments to zero, all of these changes to the taxation of individuals sunset after December 31, 2025.



On January 1, 2013, the Bush Tax Cuts expired. However, on January 2, 2013, President Obama signed the American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012, which reinstated many of the tax cuts, effective retroactively to January 1. In other words, the sunset of individual tax cuts means nothing. They can be extended if the economy is humming along.

By the way, how do you explain the downward trend in deficit effects before the individual tax rates expire? Could it be..."gasp"...economic growth? From tax cuts? What a surprise! :lol:
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#35 User is offline   Howsithangin 

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:15 AM

View PostAntonToo, on 05 December 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:



Why do you lefties only care about deficits when a Republican talks tax cuts?

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, on The Left, you included, gave a singular tinker's damn about the deficit from 2009-2016. Now, $10T later, you're concerned about the deficit because the GOP is giving those of us that work a tax cut?

Absolute Zero credibility here. None, nil, naught, nein, nyet, nada.

This post has been edited by Howsithangin: 07 December 2017 - 02:15 AM

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#36 User is offline   AntonToo 

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:02 PM

View PostHowsithangin, on 07 December 2017 - 02:15 AM, said:

Why do you lefties only care about deficits when a Republican talks tax cuts?

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, on The Left, you included, gave a singular tinker's damn about the deficit from 2009-2016. Now, $10T later, you're concerned about the deficit because the GOP is giving those of us that work a tax cut?

Absolute Zero credibility here. None, nil, naught, nein, nyet, nada.


1. Blatant fabrications, I've been up down fiscal issues for as long as I've been here with respect to all policies. If I don't REALLY care about deficits then I've done as good of a job hiding it as anyone could.


2. But lets ignore all that and assume I am exactly the hypocrite you say I am - what now? Will two wrongs make one tax-cut bill right?

Does my "credibility" make trillion and half of more debt this bill will put this country in go away? Will it excuse YOUR hypocrisy in deflecting the issue instead of directly addressing it?

NO NO and NO.

3. Let remind you about the COMPONENTS of the deficits since 2008:

https://www.cbpp.org/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/10-10-12bud_rev2-28-13-f1.jpg

Obama's stimulus expense was a one off in the middle of GREAT RECESSION and adds almost nothing to long term deficits.

His specific demand for healthcare reform was that it was PAID FOR, and in fact it was scored to REDUCE deficit - doesn't really fit your claims that lefties do not care about debt, does it?

And finally Obama's biggest contribution to long term deficits was..wait for it - EXTENSION OF THE TAX CUTS in 2012, which you supported, I opposed.

This post has been edited by AntonToo: 07 December 2017 - 03:03 PM

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#37 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:20 PM

View PostModerator T, on 07 December 2017 - 12:32 AM, said:

I think Ben Shapiro's reply to Pelosi was best. He asked if this was the worst bill ever, what was her opinion on the Fugitive Slaves Act.


Perfect.

:thumbsup:
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#38 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:43 PM

View PostAntonToo, on 07 December 2017 - 03:02 PM, said:

1. Blatant fabrications, I've been up down fiscal issues for as long as I've been here with respect to all policies. If I don't REALLY care about deficits then I've done as good of a job hiding it as anyone could.


2. But lets ignore all that and assume I am exactly the hypocrite you say I am - what now? Will two wrongs make one tax-cut bill right?

Does my "credibility" make trillion and half of more debt this bill will put this country in go away? Will it excuse YOUR hypocrisy in deflecting the issue instead of directly addressing it?

NO NO and NO.

3. Let remind you about the COMPONENTS of the deficits since 2008:

https://www.cbpp.org/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/10-10-12bud_rev2-28-13-f1.jpg

Obama's stimulus expense was a one off in the middle of GREAT RECESSION and adds almost nothing to long term deficits.

His specific demand for healthcare reform was that it was PAID FOR, and in fact it was scored to REDUCE deficit - doesn't really fit your claims that lefties do not care about debt, does it?

And finally Obama's biggest contribution to long term deficits was..wait for it - EXTENSION OF THE TAX CUTS in 2012, which you supported, I opposed.



Yes comprehension, something you intentionally avoid.
So tell us what happened to revenues after Kennedy, Reagan, Clinton and Bush cut taxes?
Come on know tell us. Did they go down? Did they go up? Did they stay the same? Just remember only ONE ANSWER would prove any type of detriment to government spending or the economy. Then again, this is the 3rd or 4th time I have asked you this.
I guess you only answer the posts which don't make you look bad.

Oki
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#39 User is offline   AntonToo 

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 10:53 PM

View Postoki, on 07 December 2017 - 04:43 PM, said:

Yes comprehension, something you intentionally avoid.
So tell us what happened to revenues after Kennedy, Reagan, Clinton and Bush cut taxes?
Come on know tell us. Did they go down? Did they go up? Did they stay the same? Just remember only ONE ANSWER would prove any type of detriment to government spending or the economy. Then again, this is the 3rd or 4th time I have asked you this.
I guess you only answer the posts which don't make you look bad.

Oki


Oki you can ask 100 times, I'm done with that nonsense. 10+ threads is enough.

We are discussing serious estimates, by serious economists.

If that's not what you are into, you can go back to sandbox and find some other righty politicos to fantasize with you about rainbows, unicorns, free lunches and magical downside free tax-cuts.

This post has been edited by AntonToo: 08 December 2017 - 10:54 PM

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#40 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 11:04 PM

Anton is going back to what he claimed over 10 years ago: no tax cut will EVER result in tax revenue increase. Nope. Not when it's a depressed economy - tax cuts won't spur growth. Not when tax rates are sky high either.

Basically, Anton will ALWAYS claim that there's no economic situation where a drop in average tax rates results in MORE tax revenue to the government.

Anton will continue to claim this, forever, even though there are real life counter examples. He dismisses those.

It's truly amazing.
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