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A tale of two Cities(an epic Gun control fail!) Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 04:34 PM

Logic teaches us that if something works universally it should work the same equally under equal circumstances, and, it also teaches us it should FAIL just as equally under equal circumstances. Anything else, is well, inconclusive and proves that something neither works, or does not work.

Case in point. Milwaukee VS Green Bay.

For years and years Chicago has made the claim that loose gun laws in neighboring states and not the local conditions or laws of Chicago and Illinois are to blame for Chicago's staggering murder rate. The two states that are blamed the most are Indiana and Wisconsin.

Here is the where this logic is completely blown away(PUN INTENDED). Milwaukee(A.K.A. the Chicago of Wisconsin) has murder rates almost as bad as Chicago. Yeah, hard to believe but it's true(numbers coming shortly). Gun control advocates will argue that it's proof less strict laws are the problem. What they won't mention is that if less strict laws where problem and stricter ones(laws) where the solution then ALL OF WISCONSIN'S larger cities should see similar rates.

Truth is they don't. NOT EVEN CLOSE. For 2016 Milwaukee recorded 140 murders while Green Bay(100 miles to the north) recorded 4(even this is unusually high).
Before you say that Milwaukee is a much larger city so the numbers are skewered.. Milwaukee is about 600,000 and Green Bay 114,000
That's an incredible difference which not only should have you asking why such a disparity, but proves it isn't Wisconsin gun laws which are at center for the violence. Again, if it was less strict laws explain the disparity? This is not an anomaly as Wisconsin's second largest city Madison(about 230,000) had 8 murders last year. Again, shouldn't Madison have a sky high gun murder problem as well then?

How can one city which makes up a tick over 10 percent of a states population account for over half the states murders? Wisconsin has a population of about 5.7 million and had 240 murders for the 2016 year. Can someone please explain this logic to me? One city in a state has an insanely high murder and gun crime issue, but yet changes in State Laws are needed to fix the problem? Ironically Green Bay is for the most part fairly Conservative, Madison is uber liberal and Milwaukee takes it to a whole new level.

Or, better yet how is it that Green Bay has a far lower murder problem then either Milwaukee despite the fact that Gun ownership is quite high. Everything from shotguns to deer rifles to AR-15's. With this high ownership rate, 'loose gun laws' shouldn't we have higher murder rates then either Chicago or Milwaukee? On top of this the vast majority of murders tend to happen in about a 5-6 block area of town, which ironically has an extremely high percentage of rental properties. Venture into other parts of town such as near Lambeau field and it's still common to see someone butchering a deer in their backyard.

Here is the Rub, although OUR MAYOR isn't exactly the epitome of honesty and financial stewardship he has never once made a push for Gun control knee capping the cops or going easy on criminals. Nor does he like to make a living of P.C. or catering to some 'downtrodden group'. In these ways a polar opposite of Milwaukee's Mayor Barret and much the same can be said of both city councils. But, as I stated, if the problems in Milwaukee or much less Chicago are due to Wisconsin's less strict gun laws then why aren't we seeing Milwaukee and Chicago level problems in Madison, Green Bay or elsewhere in the state? Much less, how does a city which comprises at most 12 percent of the state population 'contribute' over half the murders?


Links
http://www.city-data...-Wisconsin.html
http://www.city-data...-Wisconsin.html
http://www.city-data...-Wisconsin.html
http://www.disasterc...ime/wicrime.htm

Oki
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#2 User is online   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 05:48 PM

I see what you're getting at, Oki, but in this case I think "gun control" has little to do with it EITHER way; the people that gun control laws are aimed at are precisely the ones who aren't going to care what the law says anyway.

There's a simpler answer. And it's the elephant in the room of the whole gun control debate.

(South Side) Chicago is 98% Black
Milwaukee is 40% Black

Green Bay is 1.4% Black.
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#3 User is offline   Martin 

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 10:47 PM

Median household income in Milwaukee, $43,870.

Median household income in Green Bay, $43,063.

That is a difference of 1.8%. Poverty does not explain why there are so many more murders in Milwaukee. The difference in household income is only slight and the city with the higher income has a drastically higher murder rate.

This post has been edited by Martin: 07 December 2017 - 06:50 AM

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#4 User is offline   Dutch13 

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 10:30 AM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 06 December 2017 - 05:48 PM, said:

I see what you're getting at, Oki, but in this case I think "gun control" has little to do with it EITHER way; the people that gun control laws are aimed at are precisely the ones who aren't going to care what the law says anyway.

There's a simpler answer. And it's the elephant in the room of the whole gun control debate.

(South Side) Chicago is 98% Black
Milwaukee is 40% Black

Green Bay is 1.4% Black.


http://www.snappypixels.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/oh-no-you-didnt-27.jpg
http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/19/193ef2ed9c38c0c9e7ec45d04f6ab0b05c19a69219da42c0d3673e023c343a3a.jpg




Who the heck do you think you are bringing facts to an emotional talking point of the left?

This post has been edited by Dutch13: 07 December 2017 - 10:33 AM

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#5 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:56 PM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 06 December 2017 - 05:48 PM, said:

I see what you're getting at, Oki, but in this case I think "gun control" has little to do with it EITHER way; the people that gun control laws are aimed at are precisely the ones who aren't going to care what the law says anyway.

There's a simpler answer. And it's the elephant in the room of the whole gun control debate.

(South Side) Chicago is 98% Black
Milwaukee is 40% Black

Green Bay is 1.4% Black.



That's correct. If something in and by itself works or fails it should work or fail no matter where it is tried. I think one mistake we the pro gun crowd are making is in not pointing out cities which have identical laws but vastly different crime rates. If it is gun law like the anti gun claim to be the issue then at the least all of Wisconsin larger cities should have the same crime problems as does Milwaukee. The fact that we don't proves it's not an issue with Gun's but people. What breaks my heart and sickens me is that with everything the black people have been through, from the slavery, reconstruction, Jim Crow, the Civil Rights movement and even what racism still exists, it just feels like all the sacrifices the blood, sweat and tears are being flushed down the toilet. I honestly believe that there are die hard racists out there seeing everything and saying I told you so, told you this is what they would do if we let em' vote mix, go white schools etc, they are just feral animals.

Sadly that the majority of serious crimes are committed in a few key cities by one group more than any other should be enough to make anyone sick.
I don't care what a persons politics or beliefs may be, until this is acknowledged and dealt with at the community level nothing will change. And yeah, it is key to the Gun control debate weather we want to admit it or not. Those who will scream racist over this fact do so because they can't handle the truth. Citing crap like white guys make up the bulk of serial and spree killers is true, no one denies it, but it's nothing more than a deflection to try and avoid dealing with who commits the bulk of capital crimes.

Either way though, Green Bay Vs Milwaukee is proof that gun laws are neither the cause nor the solution.

Oki
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#6 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:03 PM

View PostMartin, on 06 December 2017 - 10:47 PM, said:

Median household income in Milwaukee, $43,870.

Median household income in Green Bay, $43,063.

That is a difference of 1.8%. Poverty does not explain why there are so many more murders in Milwaukee. The difference in household income is only slight and the city with the higher income has a drastically higher murder rate.



As having spent a decent amount of time in Milwaukee I can say it's damn near a polar opposite so to speak of Chicago. Chicago has a number of decent areas with a portion of bad areas. Milwaukee is more and more becoming one large bad area with a few decent places. Even convenience stores in outlying suburban areas have put in ballistic glass partitions for the cashiers. Plus, of the four murders Green Bay had in 2016 (if I remember correctly) at least two had ties to either Milwaukee or Chicago. As in the murderer was from there or was the victim.

The idea that poverty breeds crime is utter and complete <censored> because if it did there would have been blood in the streets of every single poor neighborhood during the Great Depression. Black, white, Hispanic, purple, green you name it. Guns where easier to come buy after all.



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