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#1 User is offline   pepperonikkid 

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  Posted 09 September 2018 - 11:05 AM

Judge Orders Florida Election Officials to Offer Ballots Printed in Spanish





https://www.breitbart.com
Warner Todd Huston
8 Sep 2018



Article:


A federal judge ruled on Friday that Florida Secretary of State Kenneth Detzner must provide polling places with election ballots printed in Spanish, reports state.

U.S. District Judge Mark Walker ruled that the state must comply with the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and provide the Spanish-language voting ballots after thousands of Puerto Rican natives moved to the Sunshine State in the wake of Hurricane Maria, NPR reports.

“As this Court notes with tiresome regularity,” the judge scolded, “Defendant Detzner is Florida’s ‘chief election officer'” and must enforce election laws. The judge added, “There is no asterisk after the provision stating ‘except for the Voting Rights Act of 1965.'”

The secretary of state had made the argument that he has no relevant power to force county election supervisors to act.

The Barack Obama-appointed judge ordered that 32 of Florida’s 67 counties must have the Spanish-language ballots on hand in the coming general election. He also ordered that Spanish-speaking voters be made aware that the ballots are on hand for their use and said signage and election notices in Spanish must be added to those posted in English on county election websites.

However, Walker stopped short of ordering there to be Spanish-speaking aides on hand to show potential voters how to use the ballots as well as signage and election notices in Spanish because the burden on local officials would be too great this soon before the elections.

Full Story

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#2 User is offline   Noclevermoniker 

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 11:26 AM

Casting the votes that Americans won’t. Or something.
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#3 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 11:50 AM

“Puerto Rico is in America now”.
- Bernardo
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#4 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 12:10 PM

View PostLadybird, on 09 September 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

“Puerto Rico is in America now”.
- Bernardo

So what? Puerto Rico had a vote about becoming the 51st state. They said no. They chose (you know like pro-choice people like to say is a great thing) to remain a territory.
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#5 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 12:20 PM

View Postzurg, on 09 September 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

So what? Puerto Rico had a vote about becoming the 51st state. They said no. They chose (you know like pro-choice people like to say is a great thing) to remain a territory.

So what? They are American and can vote.
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#6 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 01:49 PM

View PostLadybird, on 09 September 2018 - 12:20 PM, said:

So what? They are American and can vote.

So what? What was the point of your post except to try to insinuate something meaningless?
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#7 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 01:56 PM

View Postzurg, on 09 September 2018 - 01:49 PM, said:

So what? What was the point of your post except to try to insinuate something meaningless?


The point of this ruling concerns Spanish speaking voters, specifically Puerto Ricans, who reside in Florida. Your post has nothing to do with the OP. Moreover, despite the tone of this article, the judge was upholding existing law. These rules have been in place for decades.

This is a little better article on it.
https://www.npr.org/...lots-in-spanish

This post has been edited by Ladybird: 09 September 2018 - 01:58 PM

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#8 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 02:03 PM

View PostLadybird, on 09 September 2018 - 01:56 PM, said:

The point of this ruling concerns Spanish speaking voters, specifically Puerto Ricans, who reside in Florida. Your post has nothing to do with the OP. Moreover, despite the tone of this article, the judge was upholding existing law. These rules have been in place for decades.

This is a little better article on it.
https://www.npr.org/...lots-in-spanish

I don’t care that the instructions are in Spanish. Make them English - Spanish - Creole for all I care.

But your post insinuated that people would automatically object. I don’t.
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#9 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 02:15 PM

View Postzurg, on 09 September 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

I don’t care that the instructions are in Spanish. Make them English - Spanish - Creole for all I care.

But your post insinuated that people would automatically object. I don’t.


That's strictly your interpretation. I neither said nor insinuated any such thing. I quoted West Side Story because of the subject matter.
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#10 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 02:40 PM

View Postzurg, on 09 September 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

So what? Puerto Rico had a vote about becoming the 51st state. They said no. They chose (you know like pro-choice people like to say is a great thing) to remain a territory.


Puerto Rico is in an odd situation. The immigration and Nationality act of 1986 made anyone born in Puerto Rico, US Virgin Islands, Guam, and Northern Marianna Islands after November 03, 1986 automatically a US Citizen. This is unlike other territories such as American Samoa where Samoans are US nationals but NOT citizens.

However, only US Citizens who are residents of a state are allowed to vote in federal elections. As such, a Puerto Rican residing in Puerto Rico CAN'T vote, but a Puerto Rican residing in any state CAN.

CONFUSING IT EVEN FURTHER
is Florida law, which says you have to be a citizen and a "resident" to vote, but lacks a specific legal definition of PRECISELY who is (or more importantly ISN'T) a legal resident. You can get there a number of ways including (but not exclusive to) having a permanent residence... but lacking a residence doesn't automatically exclude you because the courts have ruled that this discriminates against the homeless. Arrrgh. :hairpull:

Secretary of Elections, Department of State, Florida: VOTER RESIDENCY GUIDELINES FOR FLORIDA (Updated February 2012):

Legal residence-Permanent. Legal residency is not defined in law. However, over the years, the courts and the Florida Department of State/Division of Elections’ have construed legal residency to be where a person mentally intends to make his or her permanent residence.1...

...Therefore, legal residence is a convergence of intent and fact...

...Once residency is established for voting purposes, it is presumptively valid or current until evidence shows otherwise.

Legal residence-Temporary Out-of-County. A person who has no permanent address in the county but intends to remain a resident of Florida and the county in which he or she is registered must be registered in the Supervisor of Elections’ main office address and assigned the corresponding precinct. (Section 101.045, Fla. Stat.) The person has to have had some prior physical presence and residence in the county. :wave:


Me? I spend most of my time in GA these days, own property in the Orlando area, but used to live in the West Palm Beach area (Lantana then later Wellington) which is where I intend to return to, and if I ever run for office it will likely be there.

I'll give you three guesses as to where I'm LEGALLY per Florida Law registered to vote, and the first two don't count.
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#11 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 10 September 2018 - 02:48 PM

If you can't even speak enough of the language to understand who is who on the damn ballot, how in the hell can you even make an informed choice?
Wanna' vote, learn the f'ng language enough to read the names!

True story.
A few years back when my wife's international drivers license expired we figured she should probably take the Wisconsin test and simply get a D.L. here.
Thinking that the Wisconsin D.O.T. would be reasonable and work with us some to try and at least get some kind of study guide in Japanese I actually called them to try and see what we could do. I offered to help translate, have a friend help translate a study guide and test, even pay for part of the translation costs. Seems reasonable right? After all they offer the written test in Spanish, Vietnamese, Polish, Russian, and a few other languages but not Japanese. There have only been a few times when someones attitude or manner has brought me to the point of wanting to kick their sorry a$$es for how they where acting. This was one of them.

After I 'mentioned' that the fact that all these languages being offered could be viewed as discrimination by Asian Rights groups his demeaner changed real quick. Suddenly he was willing to work with us and if my wife failed the written the first time she could bring a translator for a 2nd Test if they agreed to sign a statement. Well, that's what happened. Either way, we buckled down and studied though. The only reason that conversation even happened was the fact they offered it in a bunch of languages but not Japanese.

Oki
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#12 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 10 September 2018 - 03:04 PM

View Postoki, on 10 September 2018 - 02:48 PM, said:

If you can't even speak enough of the language to understand who is who on the damn ballot, how in the hell can you even make an informed choice?
Wanna' vote, learn the f'ng language enough to read the names!


True story.
A few years back when my wife's international drivers license expired we figured she should probably take the Wisconsin test and simply get a D.L. here.
Thinking that the Wisconsin D.O.T. would be reasonable and work with us some to try and at least get some kind of study guide in Japanese I actually called them to try and see what we could do. I offered to help translate, have a friend help translate a study guide and test, even pay for part of the translation costs. Seems reasonable right? After all they offer the written test in Spanish, Vietnamese, Polish, Russian, and a few other languages but not Japanese. There have only been a few times when someones attitude or manner has brought me to the point of wanting to kick their sorry a$$es for how they where acting. This was one of them.

After I 'mentioned' that the fact that all these languages being offered could be viewed as discrimination by Asian Rights groups his demeaner changed real quick. Suddenly he was willing to work with us and if my wife failed the written the first time she could bring a translator for a 2nd Test if they agreed to sign a statement. Well, that's what happened. Either way, we buckled down and studied though. The only reason that conversation even happened was the fact they offered it in a bunch of languages but not Japanese.

Oki


The sample ballots and voter guides provide more than just names. It also explains ballot initiatives. A person who is legally permitted to vote should be able to understand what they are voting on.

Japanese ballots are available in states such as CA and NY. So are ones in Chinese, Urdu, Arabic, Yiddish, Korean, etc..
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#13 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 10 September 2018 - 03:27 PM

View PostLadybird, on 10 September 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

The sample ballots and voter guides provide more than just names. It also explains ballot initiatives. A person who is legally permitted to vote should be able to understand what they are voting on.

Japanese ballots are available in states such as CA and NY. So are ones in Chinese, Urdu, Arabic, Yiddish, Korean, etc..



My point is three fold.

1. They offer(ed) the written drivers test in a host of languages in Wisconsin but not Japanese, then I get a limp wristed arragant little <censored> at the D.O.T. who suddenly changed his tune when I subtly threatened to get in touch with people who would view this as discrimination.

2. If it was in fact only offered in English then we wouldn't be having the conversation in the first place as no discrimination against one group or another could be taken.

3. IN THIS CASE:
If you can't even speak or understand things well enough to understand something so simple yet critical how in the hell can you function as a full member of society? Not just someone who is easily swayed into voting straight this or straight that or vote how someone tells you to?
Plus, Puerto Rico has been a U.S. Territory well over a hundred years, English is taught in schools. I have known a number of people from P.R. and all spoke English quite well. The only people from P.R. I ever met who didn't speak where two young ladies who decided the Army wasn't for them.

My wife asked me why don't they have a test(written Drivers license) in Japanese? I told her that's because as a rule Japanese people learn English when they decide to live here. Out of necessity, out of respect, some combo there of, they learn. When people don't need to assimilate, learn the language, etc a subculture is created. One that never fully integrates, never fully becomes part of this country, one that is never fully able to achieve all that is possible. They also are easily swayed due to this fact and there in lies the motivation to continue this problem.


Oki
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#14 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 07:21 AM

View Postoki, on 10 September 2018 - 03:27 PM, said:

My point is three fold.

1. They offer(ed) the written drivers test in a host of languages in Wisconsin but not Japanese, then I get a limp wristed arragant little <censored> at the D.O.T. who suddenly changed his tune when I subtly threatened to get in touch with people who would view this as discrimination.

2. If it was in fact only offered in English then we wouldn't be having the conversation in the first place as no discrimination against one group or another could be taken.

3. IN THIS CASE:
If you can't even speak or understand things well enough to understand something so simple yet critical how in the hell can you function as a full member of society? Not just someone who is easily swayed into voting straight this or straight that or vote how someone tells you to?
Plus, Puerto Rico has been a U.S. Territory well over a hundred years, English is taught in schools. I have known a number of people from P.R. and all spoke English quite well. The only people from P.R. I ever met who didn't speak where two young ladies who decided the Army wasn't for them.

My wife asked me why don't they have a test(written Drivers license) in Japanese? I told her that's because as a rule Japanese people learn English when they decide to live here. Out of necessity, out of respect, some combo there of, they learn. When people don't need to assimilate, learn the language, etc a subculture is created. One that never fully integrates, never fully becomes part of this country, one that is never fully able to achieve all that is possible. They also are easily swayed due to this fact and there in lies the motivation to continue this problem.


Oki


If a sample ballot or voter guide explains everything in their native language, they will understand on what and why they are casting their ballot.

This post has been edited by Ladybird: 11 September 2018 - 08:09 AM

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#15 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 10:54 AM

View PostLadybird, on 11 September 2018 - 07:21 AM, said:

If a sample ballot or voter guide explains everything in their native language, they will understand on what and why they are casting their ballot.


Like I said, all this does is create a sub culture of sorts that is easily manipulated, often dependent on Government aid, and a reliable voter block.
Besides that, if there is no reason and no incentive to learn the language why bother? Like I said, how can you be a fully functional member of society capable of making informed decisions if you cannot even speak the language? If you are reliant on someone to translate even the most simple of things you are not fully capable. What's not to stop someone or some group of mis informing you so you are easily manipulated? Doing this not only removes incentive to learning the language, it makes people much more easily manipulated and even being victims.

Oki
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