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Wow: Former Dallas Cop Who Shot Botham Jean Indicted For Murder, Not Manslaughter Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Liz 

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  Posted 01 December 2018 - 01:59 PM

Wow: Former Dallas Cop Who Shot Botham Jean Indicted For Murder, Not Manslaughter

HotAir
Allahpundit
Posted at 6:41 pm on November 30, 2018

Excerpt:

If the name doesn’t strike a bell, read this for background. This is the case where a cop came home after a long shift at work, allegedly found the door to what she thought was her apartment slightly ajar, went inside, and saw the figure of a man there in the darkness. When he didn’t obey her “verbal commands,” she shot him dead. Then she turned on the lights.

She was on the wrong floor. The layout of the apartment was the same as hers, but it was the man’s — Botham Jean’s — apartment, not hers. Or at least that’s what she claims happened. Neighbors have said that they heard banging on the door before the shooting and a woman yelling “Let me in.” Others have noted that there was a doormat in front of Jean’s door that should have alerted the cop, Amber Guyger, to the fact that she wasn’t at her own apartment. And some say it’s impossible for doors in the building to be left ajar. They slam shut on their own when they’re not closed.

I’m glad they charged her, I’m glad there’s been lots of public attention to the story, and I’m glad that this incident hasn’t sparked a rote left-right food fight. I’m still chewing on a murder charge instead of manslaughter here, though.

District Attorney Faith Johnson said Friday of the decision to elevate the charge to murder, “We presented the evidence and explained the law.”

She said her office had a “very spirited conversation” with the Texas Rangers, the lead investigators in the case.

“They chose to file this case as manslaughter. We did our own investigation,” she said. “We thought it was murder all along.”

I’ve read half a dozen stories on the indictment this afternoon but can’t find any account of which story the D.A. presented to the grand jury. Was it Guyger’s story, that this was a terrible misunderstanding, or was evidence from the neighbors offered to suggest that something more sinister happened?

If the grand jury indicted based on the “terrible misunderstanding” theory, you can understand why even the authorities didn’t agree about whether it was murder or manslaughter. On the one hand, Texas’s murder statute is simple as can be:

A person commits an offense if he:

(1) intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual; [or]

(2) intends to cause serious bodily injury and commits an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual;

Murder is a crime of intent. Guyger shot Jean intentionally and she certainly intended to cause serious bodily injury, if not outright death, by doing so. QED. “I am not aware of a case in which a person shoots another person in the torso, with death as the result, and is charged with manslaughter,” said the incoming D.A. Pretty straightforward.

But is it straightforward? Why’d the Rangers initially arrest her for manslaughter?

*snip*

Full Story
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#2 User is offline   Junto 

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 02:27 PM

Seems like the right call here.
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#3 User is offline   searcher 

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 02:37 PM

View PostJunto, on 01 December 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

Seems like the right call here.




I agree. I'm glad that was the decision.

Mark
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#4 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 02:49 PM

We shall see what the jury decides. This story sounds like absolute crap. Hard to believe sort of thing.
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#5 User is offline   grimreefer 

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 02:57 PM

Guyger's story still sounds really, really weak.
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#6 User is online   zurg 

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 05:25 PM

This is one of those stories where opinions are set in stone from the get go, and the reporting is equivalently prejudged.

Therefore, as a reader only, I can’t possibly have any opinion on this. I must wait for more evidence to come out to have any chance of forming my own opinion. It could be just about anything. The only thing I’m pretty sure everyone agreees on is that the dude was shot dead by her.
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#7 User is offline   Magic Rat 

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 05:32 PM

I don't have any real evidence but I think he was banging her and then didn't want to anymore.
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#8 User is offline   Junto 

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 06:24 PM

I doubt she premeditated his death, but that fact doesn't change how I would feel. If he was my loved one, I would want her to spend a long time behind bars - long enough for me to find enough peace and mercy that I wouldn't hunt her down upon her release.
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#9 User is online   tailgunner 

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 06:53 PM

For premeditation they'd have to prove she had a history with the guy. Something I'd guess, would be known about the building. Otherwise, manslaughter or unlawful death if her story is true.
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#10 User is online   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 08:31 PM

View PostJunto, on 01 December 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

Seems like the right call here.

View Postsearcher, on 01 December 2018 - 02:37 PM, said:

I agree. I'm glad that was the decision.

Mark


I disagree. "Murder" implies intent and/or premeditation. This seems more like 'honest mistake' REGARDLESS of how trigger-happy she was and/or how 'biased' she might have been at seeing a black man in (mistakenly) "her" abode.

If the jury gets ONLY the choice of murder or nothing, I predict acquittal. Unless the prosecutor gets just the right jury and plays the bias card. Which would be winning for all the wrong reasons.

THERE SHOULD be a penalty for her actions, of course. But I stop at anything harsher than manslaughter.
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#11 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 09:30 PM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 01 December 2018 - 08:31 PM, said:

I disagree. "Murder" implies intent and/or premeditation. This seems more like 'honest mistake' REGARDLESS of how trigger-happy she was and/or how 'biased' she might have been at seeing a black man in (mistakenly) "her" abode.

If the jury gets ONLY the choice of murder or nothing, I predict acquittal. Unless the prosecutor gets just the right jury and plays the bias card. Which would be winning for all the wrong reasons.

THERE SHOULD be a penalty for her actions, of course. But I stop at anything harsher than manslaughter.


That's assuming she "mistakenly" entered the house. She may have entered with intent. Only 2 people know that and one of them isn't taking calls.
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#12 User is offline   Liz 

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 11:10 PM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 01 December 2018 - 08:31 PM, said:

I disagree. "Murder" implies intent and/or premeditation. This seems more like 'honest mistake' REGARDLESS of how trigger-happy she was and/or how 'biased' she might have been at seeing a black man in (mistakenly) "her" abode.

If the jury gets ONLY the choice of murder or nothing, I predict acquittal. Unless the prosecutor gets just the right jury and plays the bias card. Which would be winning for all the wrong reasons.

THERE SHOULD be a penalty for her actions, of course. But I stop at anything harsher than manslaughter.

Perhaps it might be a good idea to withhold judgment until all the facts are in. :shrug:
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#13 User is offline   Moderator T 

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 12:55 AM

Regarding premeditation: This is Texas we're talking about here. Premeditation is irrelevant for Murder. Only intent matters. I've not researched but I imagine they have some sort of aggravated murder, murder 2, superduper murder charge they use in cases of premeditation.


As for this case, I don't know what to make of it. Did she go home and decide she was going to murder some dude? Did she have a plan to get rid of some guy? Was she drunk/high? Was she suffering a mental break? Was she just confused somehow?

I'll reserve judgement because nothing makes sense in this case.
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#14 User is offline   Junto 

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 01:44 AM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 01 December 2018 - 08:31 PM, said:

I disagree. "Murder" implies intent and/or premeditation. This seems more like 'honest mistake' REGARDLESS of how trigger-happy she was and/or how 'biased' she might have been at seeing a black man in (mistakenly) "her" abode.

If the jury gets ONLY the choice of murder or nothing, I predict acquittal. Unless the prosecutor gets just the right jury and plays the bias card. Which would be winning for all the wrong reasons.

THERE SHOULD be a penalty for her actions, of course. But I stop at anything harsher than manslaughter.

Interestingly enough, I read a theory that perhaps the DA set the charge at murder knowing it might be too far of a leap for some people to jump to on a jury.
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#15 User is offline   johnnybravo 

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 08:35 AM

View PostMagic Rat, on 01 December 2018 - 05:32 PM, said:

I don't have any real evidence but I think he was banging her and then didn't want to anymore.

I’m with you on this. A scorned woman, coming home from a long shift, with a bunch of unanswered texts.
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#16 User is offline   jr_tex 

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 07:13 PM

If anything it was manslaughter. The Dallas DA went for murder before the grand jury even though the Texas Rangers recommended manslaughter after their investigation. We will see what the jury says. The police officer made a horrible mistake. But murder? Don't know. The Dallas DA is on a power high after getting a murder sentence on another cop. It will get political before it's over. Guaranteed.
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#17 User is offline   Diamond369 

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 07:17 PM

Agree with this decision.
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#18 User is online   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 07:42 PM

View PostModerator T, on 02 December 2018 - 12:55 AM, said:

Regarding premeditation: This is Texas we're talking about here. Premeditation is irrelevant for Murder. Only intent matters. I've not researched but I imagine they have some sort of aggravated murder, murder 2, superduper murder charge they use in cases of premeditation.

As for this case, I don't know what to make of it. Did she go home and decide she was going to murder some dude? Did she have a plan to get rid of some guy? Was she drunk/high? Was she suffering a mental break? Was she just confused somehow?

I'll reserve judgement because nothing makes sense in this case.


You could be right.

All I know is, my first apartment was on the 3rd floor of a 4-floor walkup. (Walkup meaning, "No elevator"). (Yeah, try schlepping 3 bags of groceries up 3 floors). More than once I've absent-mindedly gone to the wrong floor, stopped only by seeing the Apt Number sign just before sticking my key in the door.

ONE THE OTHER HAND, that ALONE brings up a question: Suppose my Apt was #311. Okay, so I absent-mindedly go to 211 or 411. My key wouldn't have worked. No harm, no foul. How the heck did she get in???

Okay, I'm re-thinking this. Maybe the DA does have grounds for "murder".

This post has been edited by Dean Adam Smithee: 02 December 2018 - 07:46 PM

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#19 User is offline   Junto 

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 08:14 PM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 02 December 2018 - 07:42 PM, said:

You could be right.

All I know is, my first apartment was on the 3rd floor of a 4-floor walkup. (Walkup meaning, "No elevator"). (Yeah, try schlepping 3 bags of groceries up 3 floors). More than once I've absent-mindedly gone to the wrong floor, stopped only by seeing the Apt Number sign just before sticking my key in the door.

ONE THE OTHER HAND, that ALONE brings up a question: Suppose my Apt was #311. Okay, so I absent-mindedly go to 211 or 411. My key wouldn't have worked. No harm, no foul. How the heck did she get in???

Okay, I'm re-thinking this. Maybe the DA does have grounds for "murder".


Not singling you out DAS, but since you lived in a similar scenario (similar, easy to get confused which door was yours, etc), let's assume you made the worlds biggest, honest mistake and maybe the door opened as the tenant opened their door, and you freaked out and shot them 100% thinking you were shooting a burglar - what would you think would or should happen to you? Opening that up to discussion - not aimed solely at DAS. I am surprised that things like this don't happen more often with neighborhoods where all the homes are similar or like your old apartments.

Personally I can't quite wrap my head around everything being on the up and up or just an honest mistake. But suspending my natural conspiratorial inclinations, and say she did this to my wife or brother, etc, I would be screaming for murder charges. I don't care that her occupation is in LEO. For me LEO's and judges, etc. should automatically receive max penalties on any charges levied, if not double sentences for serious crimes/felonies.

Maybe if they could show me that she had zero, literally zero issues with this guy, and it was 99.99% an accident and poor judgement, I guess I would accept a maxed out manslaughter charge with a few more charges thrown in - also maxed out.

Years ago an ex-gf and I were eating Chinese food on the floor in the living room of our new apartment we had moved into that morning. It was now late evening, and with noodles hanging out of our mouths a maintenance worker unlocked our door and walked right in to our surprise. He was wearing janitor/maintenance worker style clothing and had paperwork in his hand so it wasn't as bad as if he was in his street clothes. I'm guessing he took a left instead of a right. He was shocked as well, and apologized and walked back out, locking the door with his key - and being dumbfounded, we never even said a word.

Also had a friend wake up at midnight in his brand new apartment to the sound of the door slamming up against the chain lock. He said he panicked and yelled something to the effect 'I have a gun and I will shoot you' and just kept his gun aimed at the bedroom door, but whoever it was shut the door and took off.

And because I like telling stories, the guy we bought our house from had a large gun safe, as well as a gun lock by his bed. He and his wife were devout Catholics - I never changed the locks on the doors. I figured this isn't the type of guy breaking into homes.
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#20 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 03:22 PM

View PostJunto, on 02 December 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

Not singling you out DAS, but since you lived in a similar scenario (similar, easy to get confused which door was yours, etc), let's assume you made the worlds biggest, honest mistake and maybe the door opened as the tenant opened their door, and you freaked out and shot them 100% thinking you were shooting a burglar - what would you think would or should happen to you? Opening that up to discussion - not aimed solely at DAS. I am surprised that things like this don't happen more often with neighborhoods where all the homes are similar or like your old apartments.

Personally I can't quite wrap my head around everything being on the up and up or just an honest mistake. But suspending my natural conspiratorial inclinations, and say she did this to my wife or brother, etc, I would be screaming for murder charges. I don't care that her occupation is in LEO. For me LEO's and judges, etc. should automatically receive max penalties on any charges levied, if not double sentences for serious crimes/felonies.

Maybe if they could show me that she had zero, literally zero issues with this guy, and it was 99.99% an accident and poor judgement, I guess I would accept a maxed out manslaughter charge with a few more charges thrown in - also maxed out.

Years ago an ex-gf and I were eating Chinese food on the floor in the living room of our new apartment we had moved into that morning. It was now late evening, and with noodles hanging out of our mouths a maintenance worker unlocked our door and walked right in to our surprise. He was wearing janitor/maintenance worker style clothing and had paperwork in his hand so it wasn't as bad as if he was in his street clothes. I'm guessing he took a left instead of a right. He was shocked as well, and apologized and walked back out, locking the door with his key - and being dumbfounded, we never even said a word.

Also had a friend wake up at midnight in his brand new apartment to the sound of the door slamming up against the chain lock. He said he panicked and yelled something to the effect 'I have a gun and I will shoot you' and just kept his gun aimed at the bedroom door, but whoever it was shut the door and took off.

And because I like telling stories, the guy we bought our house from had a large gun safe, as well as a gun lock by his bed. He and his wife were devout Catholics - I never changed the locks on the doors. I figured this isn't the type of guy breaking into homes.


Thinking that the D.A. must have some pretty damning evidence to go after her for murder vs Manslaughter. Proof of some type of relationship, argument, something. My only true story involves our house and the young man who used to live there showing up a few times while we where gone and using our address as his. And yes, he hasn't exactly led an upstanding life. Needless to say the mail wasn't from publishers clearing house.

Oki
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