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#1 User is offline   Liz 

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  Posted 03 May 2019 - 08:13 PM

Florida GOP Moves To Rein In Felon Voting Rights

Politico
By GARY FINEOUT
05/02/2019 09:59 PM EDT

Excerpt:

TALLAHASSEE — Republicans in the country’s largest swing state, ahead of what promises to be a heated 2020 battle, on Thursday moved to rein in the number of former felons allowed to cast ballots in next year’s presidential election.

The GOP-controlled state Senate voted 22-17 along party lines to pass an election reform bill, adding the felon provision at the 11th hour over the objections of Democrats. The Florida House is expected to pass the measure Friday and send it to Gov. Ron DeSantis, an ally of President Donald Trump.

Republicans insisted the move was a response to vague wording in a voter-approved amendment to rescind a Civil War-era rule denying former convicts the right to vote. But Democrats viewed the effort with suspicion, calling it an effort to blunt the potential political impact of an entire class of new voters.

In November, more than more than 5 million Floridians cast ballots for Amendment 4, which restored voting rights to released prisoners once they served their sentences, as long as they had not been convicted of murder or a serious sex offense.

This year, election supervisors began registering former felons who had served their time, prompting a debate over the amendment.

Legislators, who before the amendment passed had refused to address the question of disenfranchised ex-felons, quickly weighed in, crafting a bill that required offenders to pay all restitution owed to victims as well as fees or fines imposed by the court in order to be eligible to vote.

The measure spells out the ways a convicted felon can meet that financial obligation. A court order from a judge, for example, can convert a financial obligation into community service hours.

Sen. Jeff Brandes, a St. Petersburg Republican and one of the bill’s architects, said legislators were following the wording of Amendment 4. In debate on the Senate floor Thursday, he pointed out that an attorney for voting rights groups used the same definition when the measure was reviewed by the state Supreme Court.

“We are now bound by the four corners of the constitutional amendment,” Brandes told senators.

The debate was heavy with the potential of considerable political consequence. By some estimates, Amendment 4 could enfranchise as many as 1.4 million former felons. Even if only some of them register to vote — and turn out — they could prove pivotal in a state used to razor-thin elections.

Democratic senators said that Republicans had gone too far.

“I don’t believe the voter intended for financial barriers to stop them from exercising the right to participate,” said Sen. Darryl Rouson, a St. Petersburg Democrat.

Republicans said it would be wrong to not require former prisoners to pay back their victims first.

“If they took money from you, if they broke in to your house and stole something that is valuable to you and your family and they have not paid it back, they have not completed their sentence,” said Sen. Rob Bradley, a Fleming Island Republican.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Florida, which has filed multiple lawsuits over the state’s voting laws, called the bill a continuation of Florida’s legacy of voter suppression.

*snip*

Full Story
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#2 User is offline   RedSoloCup 

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 11:04 PM

Sticking it to the SJWs!

:thumbsup:
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#3 User is offline   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 12:44 AM

:2up:



But here in Kentucky, our retarded republican govenor Bevin is pushing legislation to give non violent felons back the right to vote. <_<

This post has been edited by Rock N' Roll Right Winger: 04 May 2019 - 10:32 AM

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#4 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 08:20 AM

Explain to me how you can return voting rights and not return 2A rights as well? Either they served their time or they do not. Both of them are RIGHTS. You can't pick and choose which they are "entitled" to.
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#5 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 08:29 AM

View PostTaggart Transcontinental, on 04 May 2019 - 08:20 AM, said:

Explain to me how you can return voting rights and not return 2A rights as well? Either they served their time or they do not. Both of them are RIGHTS. You can't pick and choose which they are "entitled" to.


A felon should get their rights to vote and own a gun back, as long as the conviction was not for a violent offense and they have completed their sentence.
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#6 User is offline   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 10:39 AM

View PostLadybird, on 04 May 2019 - 08:29 AM, said:

A felon should get their rights to vote and own a gun back, as long as the conviction was not for a violent offense and they have completed their sentence.

No, they should not.

Never.

They have proven to have bad behavior and bad judgement and should never be the ones making decisions that affect anyone else or ever trusted. Our forefathers were smart enough to know this, hence why this has been in place ever since the Civil war.

These votes are not needed in our republic nor do the criminals deserve to be able to vote because they will vote for their fellow like minded criminals over decent responsible law abiding types. These perps are also not to be trusted to possess or own any firearms either.

Only your beloved democraps who prefer and champion low life criminals just like you do believe there is a need for criminals to vote (for the very reason above).

This post has been edited by Rock N' Roll Right Winger: 04 May 2019 - 10:41 AM

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#7 User is offline   USNRETWIFE 

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 10:49 AM

Quote

“If they took money from you, if they broke in to your house and stole something that is valuable to you and your family and they have not paid it back, they have not completed their sentence,” said Sen. Rob Bradley, a Fleming Island Republican.

Completed sentence. Just serving their time is NOT a complete sentence if they had more restrictions placed on them at the time of sentencing. I am for them not voting at all, but let's not let the dems weasel them out of their full sentence for the sake of a vote. They have illegals and dead people for that, after all.
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#8 User is offline   Ben Cranklin 

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 10:51 AM

Is this just for one-time losers, or are people who keep flip flopping between being in and out of prison on "non-violent" felonies also part of this "let them vote [for us!]" sentiment? They get to vote during each of the times they're out, etc.?
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#9 User is offline   Squirrel 

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 11:13 AM

You know what you lose when you do any crime. They made the choice no one took a right away. They gave it up or sold it off how ever you look at it. Choices have consequences and unless of course your inclined to vote democrat. Who took those rights away, or who stole them? They did sorry suck it up butter cup. Should repeat dwi people get thier right to drive back? What if they killed 2 families in wrecks? By your logic they did thier time let them get a cdl and drive a semi. I mean they served thier time right ladybird? You break the law it has a lasting effect

This post has been edited by Squirrel: 04 May 2019 - 11:16 AM

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#10 User is offline   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 12:16 PM

View PostSquirrel, on 04 May 2019 - 11:13 AM, said:

You know what you lose when you do any crime. They made the choice no one took a right away. They gave it up or sold it off how ever you look at it. Choices have consequences and unless of course your inclined to vote democrat. Who took those rights away, or who stole them? They did sorry suck it up butter cup. Should repeat dwi people get thier right to drive back? What if they killed 2 families in wrecks? By your logic they did thier time let them get a cdl and drive a semi. I mean they served thier time right ladybird? You break the law it has a lasting effect

:exactly: :2up:

Convicted felons have willfully by choice forfeited their rights to vote and own guns.

There needs to be a law everywhere (even though back in the day it was always "understood") that felons while in the act committing a robbery, burglary, assault, rape, murder, etc. have all forfeited their rights to safety from bodily harm from anyone that is trying to stop them.
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#11 User is offline   Confessor 

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 01:17 PM

View PostBen Cranklin, on 04 May 2019 - 10:51 AM, said:

Is this just for one-time losers, or are people who keep flip flopping between being in and out of prison on "non-violent" felonies also part of this "let them vote [for us!]" sentiment? They get to vote during each of the times they're out, etc.?


To the demonrats, it is whatever allows them to win. At any cost (as long as it is not at THEIR COST). Lesser beings like law abiding citizens be damned.
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#12 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 02:42 PM

Hey LB, put “what are felony crimes in FL” in your search engine and you’ll get:
Kidnapping
Burglary
Robbery
Assault
Battery
Homicide
Grand theft
Carjacking
Stalking
Drug trafficking
Child abuse
Drug possession (not marijuana)
Driving w/o license or insurance

It’s basically the last two where otherwise nonviolent people could get caught up in a felony. Maybe some other examples. But the majority are violent.

And you want to give them a GUN? Are you nuts?
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#13 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 04:07 PM

View Postzurg, on 04 May 2019 - 02:42 PM, said:

Hey LB, put “what are felony crimes in FL” in your search engine and you’ll get:
Kidnapping
Burglary
Robbery
Assault
Battery
Homicide
Grand theft
Carjacking
Stalking
Drug trafficking
Child abuse
Drug possession (not marijuana)
Driving w/o license or insurance

It’s basically the last two where otherwise nonviolent people could get caught up in a felony. Maybe some other examples. But the majority are violent.

And you want to give them a GUN? Are you nuts?


View PostLadybird, on 04 May 2019 - 08:29 AM, said:

A felon should get their rights to vote and own a gun back, as long as the conviction was not for a violent offense and they have completed their sentence.

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#14 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 04:15 PM

^ did you read what I wrote? Almost all felonies have a component of violence. So you’re limiting yourself to <10% of felonies. Okay then.
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#15 User is offline   Moderator T 

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 04:36 PM

View PostLadybird, on 04 May 2019 - 08:29 AM, said:

A felon should get their rights to vote and own a gun back, as long as the conviction was not for a violent offense and they have completed their sentence.

Why make the distinction? Either they have the right to have a gun/vote or they do not. The constitution says nothing about types of crimes committed. It shouldn't matter whether they were convicted of bribery or murder. Felonies by their nature ARE major crimes. Don't pick and choose.
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#16 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 05:33 PM

View PostTaggart Transcontinental, on 04 May 2019 - 08:20 AM, said:

Explain to me how you can return voting rights and not return 2A rights as well? Either they served their time or they do not. Both of them are RIGHTS. You can't pick and choose which they are "entitled" to.


YES, you can. Because the Constitution does as well.

The 2A was framed as an absolute: "....the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." It just couldn't be any more plain and simple.

Voting is different. The right to vote has NEVER been an "absolute" right of "The People". The founders initially left it ENTIRELY to the states; it wasn't a "constitutional" issue until the post-Civil War 15th Amendment: "Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude. The 19th amendment added "Gender": "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.", and the 26th amendment added "age": "Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age."

As such, if the Constitution as amended goes out of it's way to specifically enumerate the reasons for which a "citizen" CANNOT be disenfranchised by a State...

  • Race/Color/Previous Condition of Servitude
  • Gender
  • Age, if over 18


... then it necessarily follows that there are other (unenumerated) reasons for which a state CAN disenfranchise a citizen. "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." - (10th Amend.) (And the fact that the founders said "OR to the people" rather that (jointly) an "AND to the people" is pesky. But it also pretty much flushes the entire 'Sovereign Citizen' argument down the crapper).

-----------------------

Arrrgh. :tantrum: :bang: :redhot: This ISN'T the argument I wanted to be making. Per the above, a plain reading of the constitution (as amended) would make it seem than an ex-con has MORE of a right to bear arms than to vote... which is the exact OPPOSITE of what *I* think is "Right".

Damn. Damn. Damn. A moral quandary: What IMHO is "Right" vs. "Constitutional".

I've ALWAYS believe the right to vote should be tied to one's "stake" in the enterprise. Divide the annual budget by the number of potentially eligible Citizen voters/"shareholders", and if you pay that much in Federal taxes then, fine, you get 1 vote/share. After all, a founding principle for our independence was "No taxation without representation".

-----------------------

ON THE OTHER HAND, I could be persuaded otherwise. Maybe the founders were smarter than I am??? Give 2A rights as an absolute? YES, there will be potential damage but, however regrettable, it will be "limited" and "contained". But... give voting rights to every a-hole and the damage to this Republic may be irreparable.

-----------------------

Well, this sucks. I think I just talked myself out of the very argument I was trying to make on this topic. LOL
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#17 User is offline   gravelrash 

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 05:49 PM

View PostSquirrel, on 04 May 2019 - 11:13 AM, said:

You know what you lose when you do any crime.


Maybe if high schools started teaching civics again, more people would.
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#18 User is offline   RedSoloCup 

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Posted 05 May 2019 - 09:02 AM

View PostLadybird, on 04 May 2019 - 08:29 AM, said:

A felon should get their rights to vote and own a gun back, as long as the conviction was not for a violent offense and they have completed their sentence.


:crybaby2:

And on cue the SJW appears..

View PostRock N, on 04 May 2019 - 10:39 AM, said:

No, they should not.

Never.

They have proven to have bad behavior and bad judgement and should never be the ones making decisions that affect anyone else or ever trusted. Our forefathers were smart enough to know this, hence why this has been in place ever since the Civil war.

These votes are not needed in our republic nor do the criminals deserve to be able to vote because they will vote for their fellow like minded criminals over decent responsible law abiding types. These perps are also not to be trusted to possess or own any firearms either.

Only your beloved democraps who prefer and champion low life criminals just like you do believe there is a need for criminals to vote (for the very reason above).


:clap:

View PostSquirrel, on 04 May 2019 - 11:13 AM, said:

You know what you lose when you do any crime. They made the choice no one took a right away. They gave it up or sold it off how ever you look at it. Choices have consequences and unless of course your inclined to vote democrat. Who took those rights away, or who stole them? They did sorry suck it up butter cup. Should repeat dwi people get thier right to drive back? What if they killed 2 families in wrecks? By your logic they did thier time let them get a cdl and drive a semi. I mean they served thier time right ladybird? You break the law it has a lasting effect


:exactly:
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