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#1 User is offline   Moderator T 

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  Posted 13 May 2019 - 08:30 AM

China is raising tariffs on $60 billion of US goods starting June 1

Jacob Pramuk
CNBC
5/13/19

EXCERPT:

China will raise tariffs on $60 billion in U.S. goods in retaliation for the U.S. decision to hike duties on Chinese goods.

Beijing will increase tariffs on more than 5,000 products to as high as 25%, the Chinese Finance Ministry said Monday. Duties on some other goods will increase to 20%. Those rates will rise from either 10% or 5% previously.

The move follows President Donald Trump’s decision to raise duties on $200 billion in Chinese products to 25% from 10%. The world’s two largest economies have struggled to ink a trade deal and end a widening trade conflict that threatens to damage the global economy.

The latest shot in the trade war rattled investors. U.S. stock futures signaled a sharp drop Monday morning amid the escalation.

The duties in large part target the U.S. agriculture industry, which has suffered from previous shots in the Trump administration’s trade war with China. The thousands of products include peanuts, sugar, wheat, chicken and turkey.

Neither the White House nor the Treasury Department immediately responded to CNBC’s requests to comment on the tariff increase.

(Full Story)

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In addition to the retaliatory tarriffs, they're looking into how to start unloading our Treasuries
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#2 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 08:34 AM

You mean they may sell our debt to other countries? How horrible would that be?
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#3 User is online   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 09:24 AM

BFD.

What they buy from us is merely a drop in the bucket in comparison to what we buy from them.

They'll come around to our way sooner or later.

Trump has got their number.
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#4 User is offline   Hieronymous 

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 09:54 AM

View PostTaggart Transcontinental, on 13 May 2019 - 08:34 AM, said:

You mean they may sell our debt to other countries? How horrible would that be?

I think the debt of other nations is the house of cards that 21st century China is built on. It just seems like bad economic policy to me.
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#5 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 10:29 AM

The leftists are focusing only on “Trump bad” but in reality what Trump is doing here is going to be one of the most important legacy items. And the rest of the western world and Japan, S Korea, Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, etc are quietly applauding him, because SOMEONE has to get China to a level playing field, on intellectual property, on currency, on labor.
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#6 User is offline   Bookdoc 

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 11:28 AM

From what I have read, China is in a bit of a precarious economic situation right now. Between African swine fly, shadow banking, over-collateralized supplies, empty cities, and more, they are looking at real problems if their biggest customer puts tariffs on them. Could get interesting. :popcorn:
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#7 User is offline   Bubbajoebob 

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 02:03 PM

My in-laws aren't planting soybeans this year - prices are low and they expect them to go lower because of the Chinese tariffs on them. I expect other US farmers to also be cutting their soybean production, increasing other crops. Which will mean oversupply and probably lower corn, etc. prices as well. This is on top of lower prices last year and the floods in the Midwest this year. There are going to be lots of farmers facing bankruptcy this year.
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#8 User is offline   usapatriot 

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 02:26 PM

View PostBubbajoebob, on 13 May 2019 - 02:03 PM, said:

My in-laws aren't planting soybeans this year - prices are low and they expect them to go lower because of the Chinese tariffs on them. I expect other US farmers to also be cutting their soybean production, increasing other crops. Which will mean oversupply and probably lower corn, etc. prices as well. This is on top of lower prices last year and the floods in the Midwest this year. There are going to be lots of farmers facing bankruptcy this year.

Didn't President Trump authorize around $11 billion dollars to help farmers hurt by China cutting back on buying soybeans from the U.S. late last year? Knowing how slow the federal government is on processing requests, I'd find it hard to believe all of that money has already dried up. Are the requirements to access those funds too restrictive?

Also, the prices of agricultural products usually follow the laws of "supply and demand" even when the government gets involved (i.e., the price of corn is higher due to using it to make ethanol). If China doesn't buy soybeans from the U.S., then they'll buy it from Brazil or Argentina. But, that means they won't be providing as much soybeans to Europe, so now Europe has to buy their soybeans from someplace. My point is, the supply is the same and the demand is the same, so someone will still be buying U.S. soybeans even if China stops buying them. It's not like buying something you can do without...people need food or else they riot and can turn into revolutions (which existing regimes really hate).
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#9 User is offline   NH Populist 

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 02:55 PM

View Postusapatriot, on 13 May 2019 - 02:26 PM, said:

Didn't President Trump authorize around $11 billion dollars to help farmers hurt by China cutting back on buying soybeans from the U.S. late last year?


The dollar number he talked about today to aid farmers hurt by tariffs was $15 Billion. China's not going to win this tariff war, what we need to be asking is how the U.S. got put in this position in the first place. Can you say "Bill Clinton"?

This post has been edited by NH Populist: 13 May 2019 - 02:56 PM

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#10 User is offline   Bubbajoebob 

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 03:27 PM

View Postusapatriot, on 13 May 2019 - 02:26 PM, said:

Didn't President Trump authorize around $11 billion dollars to help farmers hurt by China cutting back on buying soybeans from the U.S. late last year? Knowing how slow the federal government is on processing requests, I'd find it hard to believe all of that money has already dried up. Are the requirements to access those funds too restrictive?

Also, the prices of agricultural products usually follow the laws of "supply and demand" even when the government gets involved (i.e., the price of corn is higher due to using it to make ethanol). If China doesn't buy soybeans from the U.S., then they'll buy it from Brazil or Argentina. But, that means they won't be providing as much soybeans to Europe, so now Europe has to buy their soybeans from someplace. My point is, the supply is the same and the demand is the same, so someone will still be buying U.S. soybeans even if China stops buying them. It's not like buying something you can do without...people need food or else they riot and can turn into revolutions (which existing regimes really hate).


The subsidy was for 2018 only, as the farmers had already planted when the actions that resulted in the Chinese tariffs happened, so it wasn't something they could plan for. The expectation is that now farmers are factoring in the tariffs in their planting decision. (Of course if there are new tariffs now, after this year's planting has started....)

You're right that supply and demand works. The decisions farmers are making this spring will largely decide what the supply is next fall. I expect both corn and soybean prices to be lower in the fall and the Midwest is going to hurt, but who knows? People are bad at guessing the future, which is part of the reason central planning fails almost all of the time it's tried.
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#11 User is offline   GhostOfAndrewJackson 

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 03:35 PM

So let me see if I get this right, Ching-Chang, Tang-ping or whatever his name is has concluded that one of the best ways to show the United States who is boss is to starve his own people by making peanuts, sugar, wheat, chicken and turkey unaffordable for the masses. If you thought being a cat or a dog was already fraught with peril in China you ain't seen nothing yet.
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#12 User is online   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 04:38 PM

View PostBubbajoebob, on 13 May 2019 - 02:03 PM, said:

My in-laws aren't planting soybeans this year - prices are low and they expect them to go lower because of the Chinese tariffs on them. I expect other US farmers to also be cutting their soybean production, increasing other crops. Which will mean oversupply and probably lower corn, etc. prices as well. This is on top of lower prices last year and the floods in the Midwest this year. There are going to be lots of farmers facing bankruptcy this year.

Factor that in that most people have become widely aware that soy products contain estrogen which causes many health problems.

Many people do not want soy in their food anymore and for good reason, hence the sharp drop in demand.

This post has been edited by Rock N' Roll Right Winger: 13 May 2019 - 04:40 PM

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#13 User is offline   gravelrash 

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 04:53 PM

The talking points readers are hammering that the tariffs will hurt households because of higher prices. Change "tariffs" to "taxes" and they will tell you it's a good thing.
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#14 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 05:12 PM

View PostHieronymous, on 13 May 2019 - 09:54 AM, said:

I think the debt of other nations is the house of cards that 21st century China is built on. It just seems like bad economic policy to me.


Yes and they are spending Billions around the world building new airports and other infrastructure in foreign countries to buy their way in. When it comes down it will be ugly Trump may be setting us up to protect us from their collapse.
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#15 User is offline   GrimV 

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 10:06 PM

View PostTaggart Transcontinental, on 13 May 2019 - 08:34 AM, said:

You mean they may sell our debt to other countries? How horrible would that be?


Bluff.

They'd be shooting themselves in the ass. Makes for great headlines, and the dutiful media will play their part by ramping up the hysterics. But in the end, the benefits don't outweigh the cost.
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#16 User is offline   zurg 

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 11:07 PM

China is starting to find out that when you have something to lose, your behavior needs to change. I don’t expect them to change immediately but they’ll have to start thinking about it. A responsibility comes along for the ride.
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#17 User is online   Howsithangin 

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 11:23 PM

View Postgravelrash, on 13 May 2019 - 04:53 PM, said:

The talking points readers are hammering that the tariffs will hurt households because of higher prices. Change "tariffs" to "taxes" and they will tell you it's a good thing.


Rush spent the last hour going off on this hypocrisy
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#18 User is offline   usapatriot 

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 08:17 AM

View PostRock N, on 13 May 2019 - 04:38 PM, said:

Factor that in that most people have become widely aware that soy products contain estrogen which causes many health problems.

Many people do not want soy in their food anymore and for good reason, hence the sharp drop in demand.

Yeah, years ago my wife and I drank a lot of soy milk, especially chocolate soy milk (oh, was it good) for about six months until my workouts went to crap and my wife's menstrual periods went wacky all due to the high estrogen levels in soy milk. We haven't touched soy products since.
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#19 User is offline   Kilmerfan 

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 08:32 AM

View PostHieronymous, on 13 May 2019 - 09:54 AM, said:

I think the debt of other nations is the house of cards that 21st century China is built on. It just seems like bad economic policy to me.

Sounds like a yard sale, where they are selling everything at a loss for reasons.

The church I go to is having a rummage sale maybe they can sell it there.

This post has been edited by Kilmerfan: 14 May 2019 - 08:34 AM

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#20 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 09:02 AM

Something that must be understood in this mix is the fact China can't feed even close to all it's people. Guess who sells them the bulk of that food? That's right, us. History has shown that when populations get hungry enough for long enough there is civil unrest, revolutions and a whole lotta' trouble for the ruling gov. Sure China will just shoot people in the street and even anyone recording the event, BUT, you can only do that so many times to so many people. Watching your loved ones starve to death while the ruling class stay fat tends to make people desperate and not give a damn if they live or die, a bullet is a much faster and easier way to die than starvation.

Oki
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