[Coach]

Michael Pillsbury is the leading expert on the Chicoms and is way ahead of the curve on what is going on. His conclusions are that as with all rigid state controlled economic systems China's industrial and technological complex is unable to efficiently respond to challenges from outside their control. That is the major reason they have to steal American intellectual property. Trump's negotiations were a threat to that theft by the party hardliners in Bejing who can't stomach losing face. So they have made a huge miscalculation and if the American public holds firm and works through short term pain the Chinese will face going the way of the USSR or come around to Trump's conditions.

We are in a war we have been losing, this is our economic D-Day and Battle of Midway combined.

[Hieronymous]

I mentioned this in another thread, but it is relevant here too: It is hard to see a positive long term outlook for an economy that buys up so much debt. What would happen to China's economy (and the world's for that matter) if the US just said, "All that debt? We can't pay it, so we are renouncing it."?

[GhostOfAndrewJackson]

This is exactly right, this is the economic war we need to engage in; this is the war for the future of the U.S. As citizens we need to stand strong. Our future will be bright if we take control of our fiscal destiny. Do not take a short term view, see the long game. This could take some time to play out. The media is going to be flooding the touchpoints with dire stories of people's economic woes, understand this battle needs to be fought. Stay strong.

[zurg]

GhostOfAndrewJackson, on 13 May 2019 - 02:35 PM, said:

This is exactly right, this is the economic war we need to engage in; this is the war for the future of the U.S. As citizens we need to stand strong. Our future will be bright if we take control of our fiscal destiny. Do not take a short term view, see the long game. This could take some time to play out. The media is going to be flooding the touchpoints with dire stories of people's economic woes, understand this battle needs to be fought. Stay strong.

The left and their media will continue to undermine the nation. As an example, NPR constantly takes China’s side in the trade dispute.

[gravelrash]

This is (an economic) war that the globalists are trying their damnest to make us lose. No apologies. No surrender. Thank whatever deity, spirit, or ancestor you honor. PRESIDENT Donald J. Trump is doing what has been long overdue before it was too late to undo.

[NH Populist]

I've maintained Socialism's appeal to today's young Americans was caused by the stagnant economic conditions of the 3 previous administrations. Anyone who watched American manufacturers move their operations overseas 20 years ago saw the writing on the wall, where were young people going to work?! Obama's stunt of forcing insurance companies to cover offspring 'til age 25 under their parent's policy was a direct result of young peoples' inability to find a decent job.

So now Trump's in the process of undoing 25 years of selling Americans down the road. If you don't understand his "Make America Great Again" slogan, it's playing out as we type. Screw the Left, they're the reason the country's in the mess it's in!

This post has been edited by NH Populist: 13 May 2019 - 08:08 PM

[usapatriot]

Coach, on 13 May 2019 - 01:09 PM, said:

Michael Pillsbury is the leading expert on the Chicoms and is way ahead of the curve on what is going on. His conclusions are that as with all rigid state controlled economic systems China's industrial and technological complex is unable to efficiently respond to challenges from outside their control. That is the major reason they have to steal American intellectual property. Trump's negotiations were a threat to that theft by the party hardliners in Bejing who can't stomach losing face. So they have made a huge miscalculation and if the American public holds firm and works through short term pain the Chinese will face going the way of the USSR or come around to Trump's conditions.

We are in a war we have been losing, this is our economic D-Day and Battle of Midway combined.

The U.S. GPD is over $20 trillion. We currently import around $600 billion from China. Thus, the total impact on the U.S. economy is just over 2.5%. Even with a 25% tariff on ALL China imports (currently only half), it only represents at most 0.625% impact on the U.S. economy. It really is insignificant in the big picture. Sure, some people buying products made in China will pay a little extra, but it won't be all of the 25% simply because China will adsorb a lot of it, thus less profit for their manufacturer. Why? Because people will vote with their money by buying a similar product made someplace else if the price is too high for a product made in China. China can't afford idle factories, so they have to keep the price down to keep volume up. But, imports have alreday dropped 10% in the last three months as businesses are reacting to the uncertainty dealing with China. It takes time for businesses to find other places (in the U.S. or non-China countries) to source their products for their supply chain. I suspect this decrease in China imports will continue due to the latest tariff increase and the threat to add the tariff to the rest of the China imports ($325 billion) in July.

IMHO, this is all really great news. I hope we never get a deal with China and President Trump bumps the tariff on all China products even higher than 25%. No matter what agreement we have with them, they WILL cheat. That's who they are...they're Communists! Everything I've ever bought from China is absolute junk, so its not like we'd be missing anything if we stopped trading with them completely (like before Clinton sold out to the Chicoms).

[Severian]

The big loss in the US was the loss of manufacturing jobs, actually making things. People would claim it doesn't matter, we were just switching to a "service economy." Bull, there's a limit to a service economy, I remember one person saying you can't build an economy on everyone washing everyone else's underwear. It's not only a geopolitical strategic mistake, it erodes the society and culture to not have jobs that you can feel productive in.

Another aspect of off shore manufacturing and the modern world that drives me nuts is it's cheaper to replace something than repair it, if repairing it is even possible. I've seen too many products that you have to actually break them to get the apart to try and repair them. This is a bad change in philosophy, and results in a lot of waste.

[corporal_little]

Hieronymous, on 13 May 2019 - 02:04 PM, said:

I mentioned this in another thread, but it is relevant here too: It is hard to see a positive long term outlook for an economy that buys up so much debt. What would happen to China's economy (and the world's for that matter) if the US just said, "All that debt? We can't pay it, so we are renouncing it."?

This would be true if our currency was backed by something tangible instead of being a fiat currency. The only thing that gives our currency any value whatsoever is that it's backed by the full faith and credit of the US Government.

We stop paying our obligations, it's going to cause major ripples throughout the entire world economy. Especially since our currency is the major reserve currency of the world, and because most of the other world currencies are also fiat currencies....

Long term, the entire world economy is nothing but a giant ponzi scheme. It will correct and when it does, it's going to make the Great Depression look tame.

[MTP Reggie]

corporal_little, on 14 May 2019 - 10:58 AM, said:

... our currency is the major reserve currency of the world...

There's been talk the last few years (since maybe 2014?). Maybe not for much longer...

[corporal_little]

MTP Reggie, on 14 May 2019 - 11:08 AM, said:

There's been talk the last few years (since maybe 2014?). Maybe not for much longer...

We're now one of 4 reserve currencies.....