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#1 User is offline   Moderator T 

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  Posted 15 May 2019 - 06:57 AM

Alabama Senate passes near-total abortion ban

Caroline Kelly
CNN
5/15/19

EXCERPT:

Alabama sent the most restrictive abortion bill in the country to the governor's desk Tuesday night, with the state's Senate passing legislation that could punish doctors who perform abortions with life in prison.

The state's Republican backers have pushed the legislation, which amounts to a near-total ban on abortion in the state, forward with the express goal of overturning Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court case legalizing abortion. Alabama lawmakers join legislators in several other states in putting forth legislation to restrict abortion, such as Georgia's recent fetal heartbeat bill.

After more than four hours of debate, the Republican-led Senate voted 25-6 to pass HB 314, which would slap doctors with up to 99 years in prison for performing an abortion. The Alabama House passed the bill earlier this month.

The law only allows exceptions "to avoid a serious health risk to the unborn child's mother," for ectopic pregnancy and if the "unborn child has a lethal anomaly." Democrats re-introduced an amendment to exempt rape and incest victims, but the motion failed on an 11-21 vote.

Republican Gov. Kay Ivey will have six days to sign the legislation, though the bill would not take effect until six months after becoming law. Ivey has not publicly taken a stance on the bill but has previously aligned herself as anti-abortion, lamenting the courts striking down another Alabama abortion law last year.

"As this legislation is still making its way through the legislative process, the governor intends to withhold comment until it makes its way to her desk for signature," Ivey spokeswoman Lori Jhons said in a statement.

(Full Story)


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Good for them. I imagine this'll head to the Supreme Court
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#2 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 09:20 AM

Booyah! This is going to be fun. Watching the heads of lefties explode all around the nation. I am not sure Kay will sign it though.
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#3 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 09:35 AM

Ohio too..

Why should a rape victim not have any sovereignty over her own body?

This post has been edited by Ladybird: 15 May 2019 - 11:06 AM

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#4 User is offline   RedSoloCup 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 10:24 AM

View PostTaggart Transcontinental, on 15 May 2019 - 09:20 AM, said:

Booyah! This is going to be fun. Watching the heads of lefties explode all around the nation. I am not sure Kay will sign it though.


:exactly:

This post has been edited by RedSoloCup: 15 May 2019 - 10:28 AM

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#5 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 11:34 AM

View PostLadybird, on 15 May 2019 - 09:35 AM, said:

Ohio too..

Why should a rape victim not have any sovereignty over her own body?


For once I'm with Ladybird.

I would fully support this law. But since it doesn't make exceptions for victims of rape or incest, I can't and don't.

<_<
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#6 User is offline   Wag-a-Muffin (D) 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 12:06 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 15 May 2019 - 11:34 AM, said:

For once I'm with Ladybird.

I would fully support this law. But since it doesn't make exceptions for victims of rape or incest, I can't and don't.

<_<

Yeah. Me too. I believe anyone who became pregnant via rape or incest should be able to choose if she wants to go through with, or terminate her pregnancy.
In those cases the father has NO rights.
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#7 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 12:10 PM

View PostWag-a-Muffin (D), on 15 May 2019 - 12:06 PM, said:

Yeah. Me too. I believe anyone who became pregnant via rape or incest should be able to choose if she wants to go through with, or terminate her pregnancy.
In those cases the father has NO rights.


:yes:
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#8 User is online   JerryL 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 12:12 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 15 May 2019 - 11:34 AM, said:

For once I'm with Ladybird.

I would fully support this law. But since it doesn't make exceptions for victims of rape or incest, I can't and don't.

<_<

I am too. However I take exception with the dishonest way she phrases her disagreement. Even in rape, the baby is NOT her body.

If she were to say “Why would a rape victim not have the choice of whether to carry the fruit of a violent sexual attack?” I would say
I agree.

This post has been edited by JerryL: 15 May 2019 - 12:13 PM

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#9 User is offline   That_Guy 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 12:20 PM

View PostJerryL, on 15 May 2019 - 12:12 PM, said:

I take exception with the dishonest way she phrases her disagreement.


“Dishonest?”
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#10 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 12:23 PM

View PostJerryL, on 15 May 2019 - 12:12 PM, said:

I am too. However I take exception with the dishonest way she phrases her disagreement. Even in rape, the baby is NOT her body.

If she were to say “Why would a rape victim not have the choice of whether to carry the fruit of a violent sexual attack?” I would say
I agree.


That's a very good point. Yes, I agree: The point is that the woman didn't voluntarily consent to sex, and therefore cannot be held responsible for the resulting pregnancy. The point isn't that the human baby developing in her womb is "part of her body".

B)
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#11 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 12:47 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 15 May 2019 - 11:34 AM, said:

For once I'm with Ladybird.

I would fully support this law. But since it doesn't make exceptions for victims of rape or incest, I can't and don't.

<_<


The bill bans "Abortion" after rape/incest. It DOESN'T ban "Emergency Contraception" (EC) such as "Morning After pill", etc., in those circumstances.

The wording of the bill is important. The bill specifically uses the words "In Utero". Medically speaking, the fertilized egg becomes "In Utero" when it reaches the uterus and implants... which is typically 3 to 5 days AFTER fertilization. That's plenty of time for EC. In fact, EC is most effective from 12 to 72 hours after the event but in some cases has been known to work up to 120 hours.

I don't often agree with the ACLU, but I do agree with their argument that any Emergency Room (or other facility) treating Rape victims should at least have EC on hand if the rape victim wants it. And there's nothing in the Alabama bill that would prohibit this.

ACLU: Ensuring Access to Emergency Contraception After Rape

AL.com: Alabama abortion ban passes: Read the bill

I support the bill.
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#12 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 12:52 PM

View PostJerryL, on 15 May 2019 - 12:12 PM, said:

I am too. However I take exception with the dishonest way she phrases her disagreement. Even in rape, the baby is NOT her body.

If she were to say “Why would a rape victim not have the choice of whether to carry the fruit of a violent sexual attack?” I would say
I agree.


No, it’s her body and mental health that is directly impacted by a pregnancy.
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#13 User is offline   KenpoDude 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 12:54 PM

View PostWag-a-Muffin (D), on 15 May 2019 - 12:06 PM, said:

Yeah. Me too. I believe anyone who became pregnant via rape or incest should be able to choose if she wants to go through with, or terminate her pregnancy.
In those cases the father has NO rights.

As Bible-thumping and pro-life as I am, I'd be inclined to agree with you, Monty, and LB... so long as there's a police report/complaint filed along with the requirement for the abortion.

I hate that I even typed that "out loud."
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#14 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 12:57 PM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 15 May 2019 - 12:47 PM, said:

The bill bans "Abortion" after rape/incest. It DOESN'T ban "Emergency Contraception" (EC) such as "Morning After pill", etc., in those circumstances.

The wording of the bill is important. The bill specifically uses the words "In Utero". Medically speaking, the fertilized egg becomes "In Utero" when it reaches the uterus and implants... which is typically 3 to 5 days AFTER fertilization. That's plenty of time for EC. In fact, EC is most effective from 12 to 72 hours after the event but in some cases has been known to work up to 120 hours.

I don't often agree with the ACLU, but I do agree with their argument that any Emergency Room (or other facility) treating Rape victims should at least have EC on hand if the rape victim wants it. And there's nothing in the Alabama bill that would prohibit this.

ACLU: Ensuring Access to Emergency Contraception After Rape

AL.com: Alabama abortion ban passes: Read the bill

I support the bill.


A fat lot an EC would do for that 11 year old or for any girl who is the victim of familial abuse.

And if the woman for one reason or another can’t get one in time? There are pharmacists who refuse to dispense even these pills because they claim it’s an abortion.
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#15 User is offline   RedSoloCup 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 01:10 PM

delete

This post has been edited by RedSoloCup: 15 May 2019 - 01:10 PM

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#16 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 01:11 PM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 15 May 2019 - 12:47 PM, said:

The bill bans "Abortion" after rape/incest. It DOESN'T ban "Emergency Contraception" (EC) such as "Morning After pill", etc., in those circumstances.

The wording of the bill is important. The bill specifically uses the words "In Utero". Medically speaking, the fertilized egg becomes "In Utero" when it reaches the uterus and implants... which is typically 3 to 5 days AFTER fertilization. That's plenty of time for EC. In fact, EC is most effective from 12 to 72 hours after the event but in some cases has been known to work up to 120 hours.

I don't often agree with the ACLU, but I do agree with their argument that any Emergency Room (or other facility) treating Rape victims should at least have EC on hand if the rape victim wants it. And there's nothing in the Alabama bill that would prohibit this.

ACLU: Ensuring Access to Emergency Contraception After Rape

AL.com: Alabama abortion ban passes: Read the bill

I support the bill.


I think people are probably pretty sick of my frequent pointing out the fact that I lived with a rape victim and witnessed first-hand how it affected her physically, mentally, socially, emotionally, etc. But I can't help being certain it gives me a perspective nobody who hasn't lived with a rape victim can ever fully grasp. It was weeks before she could scrape together the strength or courage to even leave the house or talk to anybody about it, in fact before she could even convince herself it had really happened (as opposed to, say, a horrific nightmare.) Any suggestion she should/could/would have been mentally/emotionally stable enough to get her ducks all in a row like that in a mere 3 to 5 days is simply out of the question. Sure, there might be women out there who would be less traumatized emotional wrecks after a violent rape, but it's preposterous to presume all women could be so cool, calm, & collected under such circumstances.

And edited to add: There's also Ladybird's valid points about a young child incest victim and pharmacists who refuse to dispense those "morning after" pills.

Sorry, that simply isn't a solution that would apply to all rape/incest victims.

B)

This post has been edited by MontyPython: 15 May 2019 - 01:14 PM

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#17 User is online   JerryL 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 01:20 PM

View PostLadybird, on 15 May 2019 - 12:52 PM, said:

No, it’s her body and mental health that is directly impacted by a pregnancy.

The life she is going to eliminate in order to protect her mental health is NOT her body. Rape doesn’t change that the unique human life created is NOT her body.

I agree that she should be able to choose but I am honest enough to admit that what she is choosing is the termination of a human life that is NOT her body.
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#18 User is online   JerryL 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 01:25 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 15 May 2019 - 01:11 PM, said:

I think people are probably pretty sick of my frequent pointing out the fact that I lived with a rape victim and witnessed first-hand how it affected her physically, mentally, socially, emotionally, etc. But I can't help being certain it gives me a perspective nobody who hasn't lived with a rape victim can ever fully grasp. It was weeks before she could scrape together the strength or courage to even leave the house or talk to anybody about it, in fact before she could even convince herself it had really happened (as opposed to, say, a horrific nightmare.) Any suggestion she should/could/would have been mentally/emotionally stable enough to get her ducks all in a row like that in a mere 3 to 5 days is simply out of the question. Sure, there might be women out there who would be less traumatized emotional wrecks after a violent rape, but it's preposterous to presume all women could be so cool, calm, & collected under such circumstances.

And edited to add: There's also Ladybird's valid points about a young child incest victim and pharmacists who refuse to dispense those "morning after" pills.

Sorry, that simply isn't a solution that would apply to all rape/incest victims.

B)

I am with you. The fruit of a violent sexual attack, and the act of carrying that child can very easily have a super negative impact on her mental health. I have always felt that the mother should have the choice to protect her health if her health is actually in danger.

Just call it what it is. And the fetus is not her body.
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#19 User is online   JerryL 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 01:28 PM

And for the short bus people, is insisting on characterizing something as another thing that it is clearly not NOT “dishonest?” Particularly when you know your characterization is false.

This post has been edited by JerryL: 15 May 2019 - 01:29 PM

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#20 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 01:33 PM

View PostJerryL, on 15 May 2019 - 01:25 PM, said:

I am with you. The fruit of a violent sexual attack, and the act of carrying that child can very easily have a super negative impact on her mental health. I have always felt that the mother should have the choice to protect her health if her health is actually in danger.

Just call it what it is. And the fetus is not her body.


Yup, agreed on all counts.

:yes:
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