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#1 User is offline   Dutch13 

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  Posted 08 June 2019 - 07:31 AM

'The Cruelty Is the Point'

By David French

June 7, 2019 4:59 PM



I frequently disagree with The Atlantic's Adam Serwer, but late last year he wrote a piece that should resonate with any person who's been in the crosshairs of the MAGA right. A fundamental aspect of truly Trumpist political engagement is the intentional infliction of harm on political opponents. Cruelty is the point of their interactions. That's the purpose of their communication.

I'm making a distinction here between Trump voters and online Trumpists. There are many millions of Trump voters who are kind, decent, and generous people. They're the salt of the earth and the backbone of their communities. I know them. They're my friends and family members. They're the people who help make my community a marvelous place to live. If they were the face of Trumpism, then America would be a less polarized place.

But they're not — not by a long shot. Donald Trump's personal pugilism has been adopted, refined, and magnified by a legion of his supporters, and these individuals live to inflict misery. They don't care to win an argument. They don't care to persuade. They want to harass and swarm and mock in a carnival fun-house imitation of the online mobs generated by the woke social-justice left.

I experienced this reality (again) over the course of the last week. When Sohrab Ahmari wrote his now-famous (at least in conservative circles) essay called "Against David French-ism," he made three core points. Politics is "war and enmity," "civility and decency are secondary values," and the right should fight the culture war "with the aim of defeating the enemy and enjoying the spoils in the form of a public square re-ordered to the common good and ultimately the Highest Good." After reading his essay, a number of people asked, "But what does that look like. What do you mean when you make the case for enmity and against civility?"

I'd suggest that it looks a lot like what Sohrab did to me in his essay and what Trump's supporters did to me in response. A man committed to "enmity" and who believes decency is secondary repeatedly misrepresented my approach to politics and my role in critical public controversies. As I said when I answered Sohrab, he created a fictional version of me. This article acted like a signal flare, calling a truly enormous number of committed Trump supporters to spend day after day attacking me in the most vicious of terms, including by spreading many of the same falsehoods in the original piece.

This places the target of the attack in a dilemma. Allow the falsehoods to issue unchallenged, and you can see your reputation — built up over decades of writing, litigation, and activism — left in tatters in large quadrants of the conservative movement. Respond, and the attackers cheer their ability to provoke you. They thrill to their ability to trouble you enough to trigger an answer. Even worse, each public attack from the people with larger platforms triggers swarms of additional personal attacks often made in steadily darker terms, culminating in zombie elements of the alt-right lurching up to take their shots.


<SNIP>


National Review

This post has been edited by Dutch13: 08 June 2019 - 07:34 AM

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#2 User is online   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 08:15 AM



Ohh boo hoo hoo, we have been clubbed, attacked, and called names my entire life. I have been called a "homo-phobe" which by the way is idiotic. I never feared their sexuality, it actually was a different reaction. A phobia is a irrational fear. I was more of a moralist when it came to homosexuality. I have since evolved and realized that their actions in the bedroom are none of my damn business. If it were a phobia, I would still have issue with it.

On the other hand we are finally fighting back, the soft right don't like that because they still want to apply queens bury rules to political battles. There was never anything like that in the past 200 years of politics in the US. Our founding fathers besmirched each other publicly and in the media of their time. Hell one president killed a man in a duel! What would be the talk today if Trump dueled Biden and buried that smug clown over his statements! Would Trump be "mean spirited" for capping that idiot in a honorable duel?

The theory of courteous disagreement in politics is a myth perpetuated by the loser. We have been watching our freedoms erode over the course of 3 generations or more. If you don't stand up and fight for your rights then you will lay down and die. It's that simple. People used to know this simple fact, now we pretend that being courteous means we have to lose.

This post has been edited by Taggart Transcontinental: 08 June 2019 - 08:32 AM

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#3 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 08:27 AM

Quote

A discussion of only ideas represents exactly the kind of politics the pugilists now abhor. Its a time of enmity, remember? This is the illiberal right in action, and if you think its kinder, gentler, or better than the illiberal left, Id suggest you spend a few days in its crosshairs.



So nothing has changed about the alt-right Trumpers he discovered during the election? Shocking..
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#4 User is offline   Ben Cranklin 

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 09:03 AM


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#5 User is offline   Howsithangin 

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 09:11 AM

Just wow. This article reads, to put it mathematically as 1/reality.

We're the ones getting assaulted in the streets, dumbass.



ETA: OP is still whining 2.5 years later.... sheesh, butthurt much? One would have thought that you'd have appreciated the first president since Reagan to actually govern as a conservative. But nope, to do so would be to admit you're wrong, and you're incapable of that.

This post has been edited by Howsithangin: 08 June 2019 - 09:17 AM

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#6 User is offline   Howsithangin 

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 09:13 AM

View PostLadybird, on 08 June 2019 - 08:27 AM, said:

So nothing has changed about the alt-right Trumpers he discovered during the election? Shocking..


Do you believe half the bull<censored> you type?

Talk about projection! Try being a white, Trump supporting conservative in your circles, in academia, in the media, or in certain cities in this country

This post has been edited by Howsithangin: 08 June 2019 - 09:27 AM

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#7 User is online   zurg 

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 09:19 AM

And so the dishonesty continues.

History matters. Who escalated it first matters. Why do we have Trump? The past matters.

If you leftists and you Frenchists cannot understand that, you really have a problem in life - there are probably many other things that baffle you that normal people understand just fine.

Take care of your psychiatric problems and then come back with a humble mind to show by example how we should behave. Like Obama, YOU might be in the right position to correct the toxicity. YOU might be the ones who can calm everyone down. Because if WE on the Trump right appeal for civility, youll take it and hammer us over our heads with it. You wont accept a fresh start from us. Been there, done that.

Its up to YOU.

This post has been edited by zurg: 08 June 2019 - 09:20 AM

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#8 User is offline   Dutch13 

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 09:25 AM

View PostTaggart Transcontinental, on 08 June 2019 - 08:15 AM, said:

Ohh boo hoo hoo, we have been clubbed, attacked, and called names my entire life.



You have been clubbed and attacked for your political beliefs?

If so, did it help convince you that you were wrong?


This post has been edited by Dutch13: 08 June 2019 - 09:26 AM

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#9 User is offline   Howsithangin 

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 09:29 AM

View Postzurg, on 08 June 2019 - 09:19 AM, said:

And so the dishonesty continues.

History matters. Who escalated it first matters. Why do we have Trump? The past matters.

If you leftists and you Frenchists cannot understand that, you really have a problem in life - there are probably many other things that baffle you that normal people understand just fine.

Take care of your psychiatric problems and then come back with a humble mind to show by example how we should behave. Like Obama, YOU might be in the right position to correct the toxicity. YOU might be the ones who can calm everyone down. Because if WE on the “Trump right” appeal for civility, you’ll take it and hammer us over our heads with it. You won’t accept a fresh start from us. Been there, done that.

It’s up to YOU.

:clap:

View PostDutch13, on 08 June 2019 - 09:25 AM, said:

You have been clubbed and attacked for your political beliefs?

If so, did it help convince you that you were wrong?


It helped convince us that if we continue to play by the Marquiusese of Shrewsberry's rules and not fight back that we will cease to be

This post has been edited by Howsithangin: 08 June 2019 - 09:33 AM

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#10 User is offline   JerryL 

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 09:39 AM

View PostDutch13, on 08 June 2019 - 07:31 AM, said:

'The Cruelty Is the Point'

By David French

June 7, 2019 4:59 PM



I frequently disagree with The Atlantic's Adam Serwer, but late last year he wrote a piece that should resonate with any person who's been in the crosshairs of the MAGA right. A fundamental aspect of truly Trumpist political engagement is the intentional infliction of harm on political opponents. Cruelty is the point of their interactions. That's the purpose of their communication.

I'm making a distinction here between Trump voters and online Trumpists. There are many millions of Trump voters who are kind, decent, and generous people. They're the salt of the earth and the backbone of their communities. I know them. They're my friends and family members. They're the people who help make my community a marvelous place to live. If they were the face of Trumpism, then America would be a less polarized place.

But they're not not by a long shot. Donald Trump's personal pugilism has been adopted, refined, and magnified by a legion of his supporters, and these individuals live to inflict misery. They don't care to win an argument. They don't care to persuade. They want to harass and swarm and mock in a carnival fun-house imitation of the online mobs generated by the woke social-justice left.

I experienced this reality (again) over the course of the last week. When Sohrab Ahmari wrote his now-famous (at least in conservative circles) essay called "Against David French-ism," he made three core points. Politics is "war and enmity," "civility and decency are secondary values," and the right should fight the culture war "with the aim of defeating the enemy and enjoying the spoils in the form of a public square re-ordered to the common good and ultimately the Highest Good." After reading his essay, a number of people asked, "But what does that look like. What do you mean when you make the case for enmity and against civility?"

I'd suggest that it looks a lot like what Sohrab did to me in his essay and what Trump's supporters did to me in response. A man committed to "enmity" and who believes decency is secondary repeatedly misrepresented my approach to politics and my role in critical public controversies. As I said when I answered Sohrab, he created a fictional version of me. This article acted like a signal flare, calling a truly enormous number of committed Trump supporters to spend day after day attacking me in the most vicious of terms, including by spreading many of the same falsehoods in the original piece.

This places the target of the attack in a dilemma. Allow the falsehoods to issue unchallenged, and you can see your reputation built up over decades of writing, litigation, and activism left in tatters in large quadrants of the conservative movement. Respond, and the attackers cheer their ability to provoke you. They thrill to their ability to trouble you enough to trigger an answer. Even worse, each public attack from the people with larger platforms triggers swarms of additional personal attacks often made in steadily darker terms, culminating in zombie elements of the alt-right lurching up to take their shots.


<SNIP>


National Review

Wow, whole lot of butt hurt there, Dutch.

Anything you to say or point you want to make?
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#11 User is offline   Squirrel 

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 09:43 AM

Im just so glad antifa, blm and everyone on the left is so non violent and respecting of my beliefs. Im also so glad as a white man I can safely walk through the hood at night or during the day and not worry about my color. Just imagine a world were the left was as violent or worse then conservatives. Imagine a world were there were places not to go with out concealed carry just because your white. Hell what if it was dangerous to wear a maga hat or have a trump bumper sticker. So yeah Im glad theres no racism by minorities and Im glad the left is so loving and open minded. Id also like to know the name of that country

This post has been edited by Squirrel: 08 June 2019 - 09:43 AM

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#12 User is offline   Dutch13 

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 09:43 AM

View PostHowsithangin, on 08 June 2019 - 09:29 AM, said:

It helped convince us that if we continue to play by the Marquiusese of Shrewsberry's rules and not fight back that we will cease to be


Wow, I am really confused. I have been reading for years at Rightnation that we on the right were the side of tough guys with all the guns. I didn't realize that you had been getting pushed around all these years.

I guess that makes sense...... a bunch of keyboard warriors talking tough on the internet probably do get pushed around in real life.

BTW, the point of the article isn't about fighting in the streets, it is about abandoning the philosophical debate and just verbally abusing your opponents and being cruel. There are so many people here at rightnation that I respect......and several that I haven't nothing but disdain for. The respect that I feel for those people is because of their willingness to debate and not be a total dique because the person they are debating with doesn't agree with them.




View PostSquirrel, on 08 June 2019 - 09:43 AM, said:

I'm just so glad antifa, blm and everyone on the left is so non violent and respecting of my beliefs. I'm also so glad as a white man I can safely walk through the hood at night or during the day and not worry about my color. Just imagine a world we're the left was as violent or worse then conservatives. Imagine a world we're there we're places not to go with out concealed carry just because your white. Hell what if it was dangerous to wear a maga hat or have a trump bumper sticker. So yeah I'm glad there's no racism by minorities and I'm glad the left is so loving and open minded. I'd also like to know the name of that country


I am not sure this thread has anything to do with you.......you have some severe race issues. This is two threads that I have seen you respond about race........where NOTHING in either one of them had anything to do with race.

AND ONCE AGAIN, this has nothing to do with physical violence.







This post has been edited by Dutch13: 08 June 2019 - 10:07 AM

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#13 User is offline   gravelrash 

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 09:45 AM

Please, Dutch, show the jury where the bad orange man hurt you.
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Posted 08 June 2019 - 10:00 AM

View PostDutch13, on 08 June 2019 - 07:31 AM, said:

'The Cruelty Is the Point'

By David French

June 7, 2019 4:59 PM



I frequently disagree with The Atlantic's Adam Serwer, but late last year he wrote a piece that should resonate with any person who's been in the crosshairs of the MAGA right. A fundamental aspect of truly Trumpist political engagement is the intentional infliction of harm on political opponents. Cruelty is the point of their interactions. That's the purpose of their communication.

I'm making a distinction here between Trump voters and online Trumpists. There are many millions of Trump voters who are kind, decent, and generous people. They're the salt of the earth and the backbone of their communities. I know them. They're my friends and family members. They're the people who help make my community a marvelous place to live. If they were the face of Trumpism, then America would be a less polarized place.

But they're not not by a long shot. Donald Trump's personal pugilism has been adopted, refined, and magnified by a legion of his supporters, and these individuals live to inflict misery. They don't care to win an argument. They don't care to persuade. They want to harass and swarm and mock in a carnival fun-house imitation of the online mobs generated by the woke social-justice left.

I experienced this reality (again) over the course of the last week. When Sohrab Ahmari wrote his now-famous (at least in conservative circles) essay called "Against David French-ism," he made three core points. Politics is "war and enmity," "civility and decency are secondary values," and the right should fight the culture war "with the aim of defeating the enemy and enjoying the spoils in the form of a public square re-ordered to the common good and ultimately the Highest Good." After reading his essay, a number of people asked, "But what does that look like. What do you mean when you make the case for enmity and against civility?"

I'd suggest that it looks a lot like what Sohrab did to me in his essay and what Trump's supporters did to me in response. A man committed to "enmity" and who believes decency is secondary repeatedly misrepresented my approach to politics and my role in critical public controversies. As I said when I answered Sohrab, he created a fictional version of me. This article acted like a signal flare, calling a truly enormous number of committed Trump supporters to spend day after day attacking me in the most vicious of terms, including by spreading many of the same falsehoods in the original piece.

This places the target of the attack in a dilemma. Allow the falsehoods to issue unchallenged, and you can see your reputation built up over decades of writing, litigation, and activism left in tatters in large quadrants of the conservative movement. Respond, and the attackers cheer their ability to provoke you. They thrill to their ability to trouble you enough to trigger an answer. Even worse, each public attack from the people with larger platforms triggers swarms of additional personal attacks often made in steadily darker terms, culminating in zombie elements of the alt-right lurching up to take their shots.


<SNIP>


National Review

Posted by our resident TDS'er. :crybaby2:
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Posted 08 June 2019 - 10:02 AM

View PostHowsithangin, on 08 June 2019 - 09:11 AM, said:

Just wow. This article reads, to put it mathematically as 1/reality.

We're the ones getting assaulted in the streets, dumbass.



ETA: OP is still whining 2.5 years later.... sheesh, butthurt much? One would have thought that you'd have appreciated the first president since Reagan to actually govern as a conservative. But nope, to do so would be to admit you're wrong, and you're incapable of that.


:exactly:

View PostHowsithangin, on 08 June 2019 - 09:13 AM, said:

Do you believe half the bull<censored> you type?

Talk about projection! Try being a white, Trump supporting conservative in your circles, in academia, in the media, or in certain cities in this country


:yeahthat:
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Posted 08 June 2019 - 10:03 AM

View PostDutch13, on 08 June 2019 - 09:25 AM, said:

You have been clubbed and attacked for your political beliefs?

If so, did it help convince you that you were wrong?

:bs:
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#17 User is offline   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 10:04 AM

View PostJerryL, on 08 June 2019 - 09:39 AM, said:

Wow, whole lot of butt hurt there, Dutch.

Anything you to say or point you want to make?

We are a bunch of big ole meanies like orange man! :crybaby:
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Posted 08 June 2019 - 10:06 AM

View PostDutch13, on 08 June 2019 - 09:43 AM, said:

Wow, I am really confused. I have been reading for years at Rightnation that we on the right were the side of tough guys with all the guns. I didn't realize that you had been getting pushed around all these years.

I guess that makes sense...... a bunch of keyboard warriors talking tough on the internet probably do get pushed around in real life.

BTW, the point of the article isn't about fighting in the streets, it is about abandoning the philosophical debate and just verbally abusing your opponents and being cruel. There are so many people here at rightnation that I respect......and several that I haven't nothing but disdain for. The respect that I feel for those people is because of their willingness to debate and not be a total dique because the person they are debating with doesn't agree with them.


A Freudian confession by yourself?

View Postgravelrash, on 08 June 2019 - 09:45 AM, said:

Please, Dutch, show the jury where the bad orange man hurt you.


Point to the doll where. :giggle:
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#19 User is offline   Coach 

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 10:13 AM

View PostDutch13, on 08 June 2019 - 09:43 AM, said:

Wow, I am really confused. I have been reading for years at Rightnation that we on the right were the side of tough guys with all the guns. I didn't realize that you had been getting pushed around all these years.

I guess that makes sense...... a bunch of keyboard warriors talking tough on the internet probably do get pushed around in real life.




I avoid dealing with you because your attitude is generally aggressive, negative and personal. It's been that way since before Trump's election. The fact that Conservatives have finally gone on offense is hard to take I guess but we know what is at stake and won't back down.

Your statement above echoes Baraq's guns and Bibles lament, typical of you.
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#20 User is offline   USNRETWIFE 

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 10:28 AM

View PostRock N, on 08 June 2019 - 10:00 AM, said:

Posted by our resident TDS'er. :crybaby2:


http://www.rightnation.us/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/yes.gif
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