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#1 User is offline   MTP Reggie 

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 10:37 AM

Electric Car-Owners Shocked: New Study Confirms EVs Considerably Worse For Climate Than Diesel Cars
by Tyler Durden
Mon, 04/22/2019 - 04:15
Zero Hedge

<More Here>

The Brussel Times reports that a new German study exposes how electric vehicles will hardly decrease CO2 emissions in Europe over the coming years, as the introduction of electric vehicles won't lead to a reduction in CO2 emissions from highway traffic.

According to the study directed by Christoph Buchal of the University of Cologne, published by the Ifo Institute in Munich last week, electric vehicles have "significantly higher CO2 emissions than diesel cars." That is due to the significant amount of energy used in the mining and processing of lithium, cobalt, and manganese, which are critical raw materials for the production of electric car batteries.

A battery pack for a Tesla Model 3 pollutes the climate with 11 to 15 tonnes of CO2. Each battery pack has a lifespan of approximately ten years and total mileage of 94,000, would mean 73 to 98 grams of CO2 per kilometer (116 to 156 grams of CO2 per mile), Buchal said. Add to this the CO2 emissions of the electricity from power plants that power such vehicles, and the actual Tesla emissions could be between 156 to 180 grams of CO2 per kilometer (249 and 289 grams of CO2 per mile).

German researchers criticized the fact that EU legislation classifies electric cars as zero-emission cars; they call it a deception because electric cars, like the Model 3, with all the factors, included, produce more emissions than diesel vehicles by Mercedes.

They further wrote that the EU target of 59 grams of CO2 per kilometer by 2030 is "technically unrealistic."

The reality is, in addition to the CO2 emissions generated in mining the raw materials for the production of electric vehicles, all EU countries generate significant CO2 emissions from charging the vehicles' batteries using dirty power plants.

For true emission reductions, researchers concluded the study by saying methane-powered gasoline engines or hydrogen motors could cut CO2 emissions by a third and possibly eliminate the need for diesel motors.

"Methane technology is ideal for the transition from natural gas vehicles with conventional engines to engines that will one day run on methane from CO2-free energy sources. This being the case, the German federal government should treat all technologies equally and promote hydrogen and methane solutions as well."

So maybe Elon Musk's plan to save the world with electric cars is the biggest scam of our lifetime...

<More Here>
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#2 User is offline   USMCforever60 

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 10:59 AM

 MTP Reggie, on 10 June 2019 - 10:37 AM, said:

Electric Car-Owners Shocked: New Study Confirms EVs Considerably Worse For Climate Than Diesel Cars
by Tyler Durden
Mon, 04/22/2019 - 04:15
Zero Hedge

<More Here>

The Brussel Times reports that a new German study exposes how electric vehicles will hardly decrease CO2 emissions in Europe over the coming years, as the introduction of electric vehicles won't lead to a reduction in CO2 emissions from highway traffic.

According to the study directed by Christoph Buchal of the University of Cologne, published by the Ifo Institute in Munich last week, electric vehicles have "significantly higher CO2 emissions than diesel cars." That is due to the significant amount of energy used in the mining and processing of lithium, cobalt, and manganese, which are critical raw materials for the production of electric car batteries.

A battery pack for a Tesla Model 3 pollutes the climate with 11 to 15 tonnes of CO2. Each battery pack has a lifespan of approximately ten years and total mileage of 94,000, would mean 73 to 98 grams of CO2 per kilometer (116 to 156 grams of CO2 per mile), Buchal said. Add to this the CO2 emissions of the electricity from power plants that power such vehicles, and the actual Tesla emissions could be between 156 to 180 grams of CO2 per kilometer (249 and 289 grams of CO2 per mile).

German researchers criticized the fact that EU legislation classifies electric cars as zero-emission cars; they call it a deception because electric cars, like the Model 3, with all the factors, included, produce more emissions than diesel vehicles by Mercedes.

They further wrote that the EU target of 59 grams of CO2 per kilometer by 2030 is "technically unrealistic."

The reality is, in addition to the CO2 emissions generated in mining the raw materials for the production of electric vehicles, all EU countries generate significant CO2 emissions from charging the vehicles' batteries using dirty power plants.

For true emission reductions, researchers concluded the study by saying methane-powered gasoline engines or hydrogen motors could cut CO2 emissions by a third and possibly eliminate the need for diesel motors.

"Methane technology is ideal for the transition from natural gas vehicles with conventional engines to engines that will one day run on methane from CO2-free energy sources. This being the case, the German federal government should treat all technologies equally and promote hydrogen and methane solutions as well."

So maybe Elon Musk's plan to save the world with electric cars is the biggest scam of our lifetime...

<More Here>

And in other news, the day is light and night is dark. Unless its cloudy during the day and the Moon is full phase. Musk is/has/was a scam artist, he knew how to play the system, till he got caught living beyond his means.
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#3 User is offline   MTP Reggie 

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 11:02 AM


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#4 User is offline   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 12:21 PM


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#5 User is offline   Severian 

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 01:50 PM

And if CO2 actually mattered that would mean something. What matters more is the horrific toxic pollution in China and other non-Western countries where rare earth metals and lithium are mined and processed.
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#6 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 01:57 PM

 Severian, on 10 June 2019 - 01:50 PM, said:

And if CO2 actually mattered that would mean something. What matters more is the horrific toxic pollution in China and other non-Western countries where rare earth metals and lithium are mined and processed.


Ssshhhh... your letting facts get in the way of a narrative/made up reality. Your going to make a leftist butt hurt if you keep doing this!

Oki
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#7 User is online   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 08:53 PM

Shocking right? I guess these tardsticks thought that the electricity to power their precious crap wagons came off the electric car tree.

Oh and don't get me started about the reality of a full on electric vehicle losing it's charge.

I went to Iraq for 15 MONTHS, in doing so I placed my car in storage the entire time. When I returned the gas in the tank didn't disappear, in fact I got in the car and turned the key and blam it started right up. Try that with a Tesla. You will be forking over 50K to get your car recoded after it crashes due to lack of juice.

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#8 User is offline   Squirrel 

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 09:11 PM

They also miss on the easy logical side where does this electrical charge come from? They have said nuclear power plants are bad. So unless they have a windmill at home or solar panels they want to wait to charge it....
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#9 User is offline   erp 

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 04:05 AM

All of my cars are older. The newest one being 8 years old, the oldest one being 40 years old.

So if the world ran on electric cars, I would be about to change out the battery for one car, and would have had to change out the battery for the other three, with the 40 year old car being on its 4th battery.

Or, Iíd have to have purchased new cars. Either way, this crap would be expensive.

This is why I donít believe electric cars will be the dominate mode of transportation anytime soon.
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#10 User is offline   Mrdirt73 

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 08:45 AM

I drive a hybrid, but I had thoughts of the environment when I purchased it. I bought it simply for the savings on gas mileage, and the fact that since it was the end of the model year I got it for the same price as the non-hybrid version.
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#11 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 09:48 AM

So let's see here....

Using Tesla as an example...

60 Amp circuit at 208 - 240 volts for the fast charger.
100 Amp if you want two chargers...

-22F for outside use(while that rules out pretty much all the northern states and upper midwest).

About 9 hours for a full charge....
https://www.cars.com...battery-charge/

Let's do some math...

220(volts) X 80 amps = 17,600 watts
17,600 / 1000(killowat hour) X .13(price per kilowatt hour Which is about what we pay).
Sooo... that averages out to about 20 bucks every time the thing needs a full charge.

Which of coarse gives you about a 300 mile range.

Let's see..... equivalent gas sedan 25 miles per gallon combined....
Gas at $2.60 a gallon... 31.20 for the same range and as an added bonus you don't need to wait for hours and hours before it's ready to go again after being emptied. Plus, you won't have to upgrade your homes electrical.
Most homes only have a 100 or 120 amp system to begin with. Even at 60 amps that's half your homes power grid right there. As is the current grid cannot handle it if these things are bough in mass. The buy a solar panel sounds great until reality hits where the sun don't always shine.

Not against the idea, just against forcing people to buy something that isn't ready for prime time or create another problem in solving one.

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#12 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 09:57 AM

View PostMrdirt73, on 11 June 2019 - 08:45 AM, said:

I drive a hybrid, but I had thoughts of the environment when I purchased it. I bought it simply for the savings on gas mileage, and the fact that since it was the end of the model year I got it for the same price as the non-hybrid version.

The people I know who drive them absolutely love the gas mileage they are getting. My lease is up next year and Iím seriously considering one. The only things ng is the models are all smaller, non 4 WD that I have seen. Might have to wait until Iím out of snow country.

This post has been edited by Ladybird: 11 June 2019 - 09:57 AM

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#13 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 10:03 AM

View PostLadybird, on 11 June 2019 - 09:57 AM, said:

The people I know who drive them absolutely love the gas mileage they are getting. My lease is up next year and Iím seriously considering one. The only things ng is the models are all smaller, non 4 WD that I have seen. Might have to wait until Iím out of snow country.


Unless you live in the sticks or on a hill, or somewhere that never gets plowed in time 4WD will do you nothing.
PLUS.. and here is the big one. It isn't about how many wheels you have spinning, it's more about clearance. If the snow is up to the frame or lowest point, you ain't goin' no where.

Oki
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#14 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 10:42 AM

View Postoki, on 11 June 2019 - 10:03 AM, said:

Unless you live in the sticks or on a hill, or somewhere that never gets plowed in time 4WD will do you nothing.
PLUS.. and here is the big one. It isn't about how many wheels you have spinning, it's more about clearance. If the snow is up to the frame or lowest point, you ain't goin' no where.

Oki


Bull. Iíve had rear, front, and 4 on the floor and it definitely makes a difference. It snows here from October to April and sometimes May.
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#15 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 11:02 AM

View PostLadybird, on 11 June 2019 - 10:42 AM, said:

Bull. Iíve had rear, front, and 4 on the floor and it definitely makes a difference. It snows here from October to April and sometimes May.



I live in Green Bay Wisconsin. There have been numerous times where getting out of my drive way and down the street onto a main road required a lot of luck. If the snow is touching the bottom of your vehicle it won't matter how many wheels you got spinnin', your not going any where. As far as owned or driven....

10 Ton/Hemmtt an off road truck capable to pulling and or hauling 100,000 plus pounds.
5 Ton both Manual and Automatic
2&1/2 Ton
Humvee
Pick Up Trucks both 2 and 4 wheel drive
Front and rear wheel drive sedans.

Have driven or owned 4,6 and even 8 wheeled vehicles.
Even a driven a few tracked vehicles. M270 M.L.R.S.
Even these bad boys can be gotten stuck.

Oki
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#16 User is offline   Mrdirt73 

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 11:28 AM

View PostLadybird, on 11 June 2019 - 09:57 AM, said:

The people I know who drive them absolutely love the gas mileage they are getting. My lease is up next year and Iím seriously considering one. The only things ng is the models are all smaller, non 4 WD that I have seen. Might have to wait until Iím out of snow country.

If you live in cold country, I'd check with your friends on the actual gas mileage they get. Mine gets several mpg lower during the colder months just because you're depending more on the gas motor for heat than normal. It also seems like it takes the battery a little longer to "get warmed up" in winter, and start taking over the power from the gas motor when first starting out driving for the day.
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#17 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 12:02 PM

View PostMrdirt73, on 11 June 2019 - 11:28 AM, said:

If you live in cold country, I'd check with your friends on the actual gas mileage they get. Mine gets several mpg lower during the colder months just because you're depending more on the gas motor for heat than normal. It also seems like it takes the battery a little longer to "get warmed up" in winter, and start taking over the power from the gas motor when first starting out driving for the day.


Plus the A/C for the defroster.

Oki
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#18 User is offline   BootsieBets 

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 12:26 PM

View PostSeverian, on 10 June 2019 - 01:50 PM, said:

And if CO2 actually mattered that would mean something. What matters more is the horrific toxic pollution in China and other non-Western countries where rare earth metals and lithium are mined and processed.

Yep, unless and until the world makes China and India and Russia adhere to the same ridiculous standards they want us to follow, all of this is just pointless self-gratification for the SJW who want to feel like they are doing something to save the world. And it is actually damaging for the planet to mine the rare earth metals for the batteries. They are trading one pollution for another.

In the long run, it is needless, because the world is not going to end in 12 years, just like it didnít end in the 1980ís when Paul Ehrlich said it would or in 2016 when AlGore said it would. We should be good stewards of our resources, but that is not what any of this is about!
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#19 User is offline   ilja 

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 09:19 PM

View PostMTP Reggie, on 10 June 2019 - 11:02 AM, said:



:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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#20 User is online   zurg 

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 11:13 PM

View PostSeverian, on 10 June 2019 - 01:50 PM, said:

And if CO2 actually mattered that would mean something. What matters more is the horrific toxic pollution in China and other non-Western countries where rare earth metals and lithium are mined and processed.

Iíve been preaching this from the very start. China controls 90%+ of REMs produced in the world. Iím surprised that hasnít actually come up during the tariff stuff. Probably hasnít because the REMs are used in China to make stuff, so itís already going to be built into the price of goods.

One important things also is not just the CO2 released but the toxicity of the whole process and the impact itís having on the local mining areas, rivers, lakes, peopleís health. Iím certain that those towns are seeing increased cancers etc that are just not reported.

One final thing. The total emissions of an EV, like the article says, are no less than a gas powers vehicleís, so the benefit of EVs isnít reduced emissions, itís displaced emissions. EVs have CO2 and other gases released in the atmosphere in China and at the power plants, not where they are driven. This is a GOOD idea for smog bowls like LA or Beijing or Mexico City. Itís a BAD (or at least not better) idea for places like FL where the winds take away everything.
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