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#1 User is offline   Howsithangin 

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 04:26 AM

Scotland becomes first UK nation to ban smacking children after MSPs vote to outlaw parents using physical punishment

By LARA KEAY FOR MAILONLINE
PUBLISHED: 10:03 BST, 3 October 2019 | UPDATED: 21:05 BST, 3 October 2019

  • Law gives children the same level of protection from violence as adults
  • Introduced by Scottish Greens MSP John Finnie who said it has 'no place'
  • Brings Scotland up to international standards and is first UK nation to do so


Scotland has become the first part of the UK to ban the smacking of children.

MSPs voted to outlaw parents using physical punishment on their children by 84 votes to 29 after a bill was introduced by Scottish Greens MSP John Finnie. The move has brought Scotland up to international standards, with Mr Finnie arguing: 'Physical punishment has no place in 21st century'.

Previously parents and carers are allowed to use 'reasonable' physical force in order to discipline children. But the law change is aimed at giving children the same protection from assault as adults and stops them from doing so.

The bill was passed at the Scottish Government on Thursday, despite a YouGov poll of 1,546 adults from across the UK which suggested 57 per cent oppose the move.

LINK
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Europe continues to circle the bowl....
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#2 User is online   Rock N' Roll Right Winger 

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 05:51 AM

So, Scotland wants to emulate America in creating more spoiled, whining, crybaby SJW snowflakes and tantrum thowing raging punks that should end up in prison?

Just take a look at what the last two generations of raising unaccountable "no spank" "everyone gets a trophy" "time out" children that do everything as they please has done here?

This country is a mess now because of all that.
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#3 User is offline   scotsman 

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 09:17 AM

Sadly, we have known this was coming. Only the Scottish Tories/Conservatives voted against it.

I agree, complete and utter nonsense. It would illegalise a small smack, which is what most parents do. There are already laws in place to punish those parents who truly beat and abuse their children. The only saving grace perhaps is that this law does not come into effect for another 18 months. Time to mount a legal challenge.

The Scottish Govt has just had to scrap a 'Named Person' scheme (which would have 'given' every Scottish child to the age of 18 an independent legal guardian or point of contact outwith their family) after successful legal challenges, the courts found rightly this was intrusive and in fact illegal under the Human Rights Act. I am confident that a legal challenge on smacking would be successful. I would accept a compromise which allowed an open smack on the bottom or hand or legs, whilst outlawing smacking the head, face, punching a child etc.

The current SNP govt is as nanny state as they come. In the name of progressivism etc etc. Most Scots people are far less nanny state and more conservative in terms of family. The NP scheme shows, as most Scots know, that the SNP are easily spooked by public backlash and can be forced to scrap their idiotic plans.
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#4 User is offline   scotsman 

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 09:19 AM

Oh, and needless to say, the eejit who brought the Bill to the Parliament, openly admits he smacked his own children. And would now criminalise a nation of good parents.

I wonder what the Gaelic is for hypocrite.

This post has been edited by scotsman: 05 October 2019 - 09:20 AM

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#5 User is offline   kestrel 

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 10:37 AM

View Postscotsman, on 05 October 2019 - 09:19 AM, said:

Oh, and needless to say, the eejit who brought the Bill to the Parliament, openly admits he smacked his own children. And would now criminalise a nation of good parents.

I wonder what the Gaelic is for hypocrite.

Liberal Democrat?
Kestrel...

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#6 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 02:11 PM

View Postscotsman, on 05 October 2019 - 09:17 AM, said:

Sadly, we have known this was coming. Only the Scottish Tories/Conservatives voted against it.

I agree, complete and utter nonsense. It would illegalise a small smack, which is what most parents do. There are already laws in place to punish those parents who truly beat and abuse their children. The only saving grace perhaps is that this law does not come into effect for another 18 months. Time to mount a legal challenge.

The Scottish Govt has just had to scrap a 'Named Person' scheme (which would have 'given' every Scottish child to the age of 18 an independent legal guardian or point of contact outwith their family) after successful legal challenges, the courts found rightly this was intrusive and in fact illegal under the Human Rights Act. I am confident that a legal challenge on smacking would be successful. I would accept a compromise which allowed an open smack on the bottom or hand or legs, whilst outlawing smacking the head, face, punching a child etc.

The current SNP govt is as nanny state as they come. In the name of progressivism etc etc. Most Scots people are far less nanny state and more conservative in terms of family. The NP scheme shows, as most Scots know, that the SNP are easily spooked by public backlash and can be forced to scrap their idiotic plans.


I agree. Having been on the receiving end, I *know* what abuse looks like, and a minor swat on the behind ISN'T it. I will also go so far as to say that paddles, plain leather belts, and even hickory switches have their place... UP TO A POINT.

My grandfather on my mom's side had it right. Hickory tree in his front yard. You NEVER wanted to hear him say, without even raising his voice, "Son, go cut me a switch about this long. We need to have a talk." But you need to know one thing about my grandfather: If it got to that point, you deserved it and it was fair. Several swats to the back of the bare legs (This was usually summer when all us kids were wearing shorts.)

Ever gotten a hickory switch to the back of your legs? Done properly, it doesn't cause an injury except to one's dignity. But, oh lord, it STINGS like a <censored><censored><censored><censored><censored>-ucker.

Contrast with my Dad and stepmom who never got the memo. Slammed against a wall hard enough to be knocked out. Broken ribs from being beaten with a piece of lumber. Scars on my backside well into my 20s from being beaten with a belt hard enough to not just leave bruises but draw blood. More often than not, it was whilst my dad was sailing on the Cutty Sark and/or my stepmum was feeling no pain with her prescription Valiums and Norgesics.

My case (State v [Smithee Sr and other]) was at least PART of the reason that Indiana law now limits corporal punishment to backside only, no higher than the buttocks, no lower than the back of the knee, and NEVER either break the skin or leave a bruise that lasts more than 24 hr.
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#7 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 02:19 PM

View Postscotsman, on 05 October 2019 - 09:19 AM, said:

Oh, and needless to say, the eejit who brought the Bill to the Parliament, openly admits he smacked his own children. And would now criminalise a nation of good parents.

I wonder what the Gaelic is for hypocrite.


Focloir.ie might have a few suggestions. LOL. I especially like the one about "tá cic maith sa tóin de dhíth air, tá cic maith sa pholl ag teastáil uaidh".
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#8 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 08:42 AM

They have banned smacking? Well they can always make the kids eat Haggis as a punishment, surely that will get their attention and make them stop their bad behavior.
:tongue2: :drinkers:
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#9 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 08:45 AM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 05 October 2019 - 02:11 PM, said:

I agree. Having been on the receiving end, I *know* what abuse looks like, and a minor swat on the behind ISN'T it. I will also go so far as to say that paddles, plain leather belts, and even hickory switches have their place... UP TO A POINT.

My grandfather on my mom's side had it right. Hickory tree in his front yard. You NEVER wanted to hear him say, without even raising his voice, "Son, go cut me a switch about this long. We need to have a talk." But you need to know one thing about my grandfather: If it got to that point, you deserved it and it was fair. Several swats to the back of the bare legs (This was usually summer when all us kids were wearing shorts.)

Ever gotten a hickory switch to the back of your legs? Done properly, it doesn't cause an injury except to one's dignity. But, oh lord, it STINGS like a <censored><censored><censored><censored><censored>-ucker.

Contrast with my Dad and stepmom who never got the memo. Slammed against a wall hard enough to be knocked out. Broken ribs from being beaten with a piece of lumber. Scars on my backside well into my 20s from being beaten with a belt hard enough to not just leave bruises but draw blood. More often than not, it was whilst my dad was sailing on the Cutty Sark and/or my stepmum was feeling no pain with her prescription Valiums and Norgesics.

My case (State v [Smithee Sr and other]) was at least PART of the reason that Indiana law now limits corporal punishment to backside only, no higher than the buttocks, no lower than the back of the knee, and NEVER either break the skin or leave a bruise that lasts more than 24 hr.



Two things.

I hope Karma has bit their p.o.S. asses.

Second, dear lord you need to start a support group with a guy named David(?) Peltzer.
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#10 User is offline   scotsman 

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 08:54 AM

View Postoki, on 07 October 2019 - 08:42 AM, said:

They have banned smacking? Well they can always make the kids eat Haggis as a punishment, surely that will get their attention and make them stop their bad behavior.
:tongue2: :drinkers:


Haggis is lovely, ever actually tried it?.

View Postoki, on 07 October 2019 - 08:45 AM, said:

Two things.

I hope Karma has bit their p.o.S. asses.

Second, dear lord you need to start a support group with a guy named David(?) Peltzer.


No thanks, the man is a fraud.
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#11 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 08:51 PM

View Postscotsman, on 09 October 2019 - 08:54 AM, said:

Haggis is lovely, ever actually tried it?.



No thanks, the man is a fraud.



Perhaps one day. Know if you really wanna' put some hair on your chest... Get your teeth into some Okinawan Bittermelon... Goya... came extremely close to getting a few to grow this year. Per David Peltzer, read his book a child called it. I have not heard anything to indicate he lied through his teeth.

This gives some insight and backs Peltzers claims.
https://www.conductd...-of-book.60171/

Whereas Dave occasionally excuses the worst of his mother's excesses as accidents, Richard refuses to let her off so easily. For example, in one scene, recounted by both brothers, Roerva stabs Dave in the upper chest. While Dave has always maintained that this was not intentional, Richard believes she intended to kill him.

"I started to realise that she had been preparing herself to kill Dave for years," he writes. But what is more astonishing is his frankness about his reaction as he watches his brother being stabbed. "I could taste the adrenaline that now flowed throughout my body," he writes. "I ran for my life. She now had the power to kill. As ashamed as I am to admit it, I was more fearful that she might kill me than of the possibility of my brother bleeding to death."

When he does worry about his brother, it is from a selfish standpoint: "I needed him to live so I wouldn't be the one lying on the cold, damp cement wondering if I was going to live through the night." Richard, now 39 and married with two children, agrees with Dave's description of him as his mother's collaborator.



David Peltzer might be exaggerating a bit largely do to things being from a child perspective or point of view, but none the less it did happen and the state did say his case was one of the worst they had ever seen. Either way though, huge difference between discipline and abuse. When a child is terrified at the thought of upsetting a parent for any reason and fears they will be beaten, even for an honest mistake or mishap that's a sign right there.
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