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#1 User is offline   Martin 

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 01:16 PM

Are House Democrats Getting Cold Feet?


by John Hinderaker, Powerline

https://www.powerlin...g-cold-feet.php

A number of right-leaning news sources speculate that House Democrats are having second thoughts about impeaching President Trump. Such speculation is based in part on polls that generally show opinion turning against impeachment, especially among independents. A lot of attention–too much, I think–has also been paid to a radio interview given by Michigan Democrat Brenda Lawrence, in which she said “I don’t see the value of” impeaching Trump. Lawrence advocated a censure resolution instead, along with a focus on next year’s election. Of course, she promptly recanted when her comments became widely known.

My own view has long been that impeachment was a given once the Democrats captured the House majority last November. For them to retreat now, after two weeks of far-from-successful hearings, would be humiliating. The Democrats are a top-down party, and if House leadership demands “yes” votes on an impeachment resolution, it will get them. Nancy Pelosi will do everything she can to achieve a near-unanimous impeachment vote.

Still, the Democrats must be a little worried about what lies in store in the Senate. There, the shoe will be on the other foot: an increasingly aggressive Mitch McConnell will be in charge. I assume Senate Republicans will call Adam Schiff as a witness, and they certainly will call the whistleblower Democratic Party activist who collaborated with Schiff’s staff to set this silly proceeding in motion. They also are likely to call Joe and Hunter Biden as witnesses, to explore the Obama administration corruption that President Trump allegedly was trying to investigate. It has been reported that three different Senate committees are now investigating not only the Biden family’s Ukraine corruption ($3 million worth!), but also the Obama/Biden administration’s solicitation of Ukrainian interference in the 2016 presidential election. That, too, could be explored in a Senate trial.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hinderaker has brought up something I hadn't thought of. An impeachment trial in the Senate would give the Republicans a chance to call Joe and Hunter Biden as witnesses and cross-examine them about their business dealings in the Ukraine. If the purpose of voting to impeach Trump for a trial in the Senate was not to remove him from office but merely to sling mud on his re-election campaign, isn't it possible that some corruption on the part of the Bidens might also come out at the trial? For Democrats who don't want Biden as the nominee, that might be more of a feature than a bug. For Democrats who do want him as their nominee and who have made him the leading candidate since the campaign began, it would be demoralizing. Biden leads most national polls with 27% of the vote vs. the next-highest Sanders at 18% and Warren at 15%.

If Biden's appearance at a Senate impeachment trial did expose corruption on his part, he would naturally claim its investigation was politically motivated. That is exactly the same thing Trump has been saying about all the investigations of him since he took office. Or, if the House Democrats do not vote articles of impeachment, won't the public wonder what the Democrats' three-year fuss was all about? If you were a House Democrat, what would you do?






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#2 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 01:22 PM

One quick correction needs to be made, before further comment, if any:

Quote

"...For them to retreat now, after two weeks of far-from-successful hearings..."


Two weeks? More like three years.
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#3 User is offline   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 03:32 PM

Yes they are, they didn't think that the Trump defense would call the witnesses they will call. They will get crushed the second they lie.
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#4 User is offline   Natural Selection 

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 03:46 PM

View PostMartin, on 28 November 2019 - 01:16 PM, said:

Are House Democrats Getting Cold Feet?


The whole point of the public impeachment hearings was to increase support for impeachment so the democrats wouldn't take an election hit when they impeached Trump. The entire impeachment scam was transparent to all but the densest of anti-Trump anti-America progressives. It certainly didn't change any minds. If anything, it reinforced the common perception that democrats are corrupt, do anything, say anything, corrupt, scum of society, power hungry, mental midgets that think their laughable attempts at public deception are brilliant. They don't have enough sense to understand how ridiculous they appear to normal, functioning humans.

Are they getting "cold feet"? That assumes they recognize failure. It's more likely they think Americans are too stupid to understand their brilliant plan so they'll have to dumb it down for us.

:rofl:

Trump 2020!
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#5 User is offline   DJGoody 

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 10:43 AM

The Democrats have no idea what to do now. They have backed themselves into a corner, and every option they have now is a disaster for them! I am loving every minute of it! Trump has completely outplayed them at EVERY turn. The whole Rocky photo, and faking the media out by going to Afghanistan was brilliant. They are used to republicans folding like a lawn chair in a hurricane. They weren't ready for Trump, and they still can't figure him out. THIS is one of the reasons I love Trump. My sister was a Never-Trumper. Now she loves him for this kind of stuff. With the current crop of incompetent candidates, I can't see a path where Trump loses in 2020.
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#6 User is offline   RedSoloCup 

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 10:55 AM

This infantile impeachment scam from them will be their undoing!

 DJGoody, on 29 November 2019 - 10:43 AM, said:

The Democrats have no idea what to do now. They have backed themselves into a corner, and every option they have now is a disaster for them! I am loving every minute of it! Trump has completely outplayed them at EVERY turn. The whole Rocky photo, and faking the media out by going to Afghanistan was brilliant. They are used to republicans folding like a lawn chair in a hurricane. They weren't ready for Trump, and they still can't figure him out. THIS is one of the reasons I love Trump. My sister was a Never-Trumper. Now she loves him for this kind of stuff. With the current crop of incompetent candidates, I can't see a path where Trump loses in 2020.


:exactly:

 Natural Selection, on 28 November 2019 - 03:46 PM, said:

The whole point of the public impeachment hearings was to increase support for impeachment so the democrats wouldn't take an election hit when they impeached Trump. The entire impeachment scam was transparent to all but the densest of anti-Trump anti-America progressives. It certainly didn't change any minds. If anything, it reinforced the common perception that democrats are corrupt, do anything, say anything, corrupt, scum of society, power hungry, mental midgets that think their laughable attempts at public deception are brilliant. They don't have enough sense to understand how ridiculous they appear to normal, functioning humans.

Are they getting "cold feet"? That assumes they recognize failure. It's more likely they think Americans are too stupid to understand their brilliant plan so they'll have to dumb it down for us.

:rofl:

Trump 2020!


:clap:

To be lost on some_people.
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#7 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 01:09 PM

View PostMartin, on 28 November 2019 - 01:16 PM, said:

If Biden's appearance at a Senate impeachment trial did expose corruption on his part, he would naturally claim its investigation was politically motivated. That is exactly the same thing Trump has been saying about all the investigations of him since he took office. Or, if the House Democrats do not vote articles of impeachment, won't the public wonder what the Democrats' three-year fuss was all about? If you were a House Democrat, what would you do?


If *I* were Nancy Pelosi, I'd try to have it both ways: Publicly act like I really, really wanted a 'yes' vote on impeachment whilst at the same time quietly getting just enough people I could trust to vote 'no' to guarantee that it would never pass. And at the same time throw Schiff under the bus by making it semm like it was all HIS fault that it failed.

But... does she really have THAT much control over it all?
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#8 User is offline   Coach 

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 01:30 PM

Once crazy can it be reversed ? When talking points swing to "prayerful considerations" and "solemn duties" you are in lala land. Nancy Pelosi is supposed to be a Roman Catholic but is all in for abortion, period.

Never doubt how far and weird a democrat can and will go. Key word here is CRAZY.
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#9 User is offline   Martin 

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 03:36 PM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 29 November 2019 - 01:09 PM, said:

If *I* were Nancy Pelosi, I'd try to have it both ways: Publicly act like I really, really wanted a 'yes' vote on impeachment whilst at the same time quietly getting just enough people I could trust to vote 'no' to guarantee that it would never pass.


"Impeachment Lite"?

If she quashes an impeachment resolution, she and the Democratic delegation in the House are going to have to explain to the impeachment enthusiasts in their districts why they could not summon enough votes to carry the resolution. I doubt that any answer will satisfy them. They will inevitably end up disgusted with her and her party.

If an impeachment resolution passes, with or without her support, the House Democrats are throwing an extremely hot potato into the hands of Senate Democrats. Joe Biden can legitimately claim executive privilege when cross-examined even though that will sound just like Richard Nixon. Hunter Biden, though, dealt with Ukraine as a private citizen. When the Republican manager in the Senate tries to wring some embarrassing testimony out of him, all he can do is take the Fifth Amendment just like any gangster or IRS executive. The implication that he was doing something in Ukraine which would incriminate him if he testifies about it will imply that Trump asking Ukraine to investigate the Bidens was not only permissible but a proper use of investigative authority. "What Hunter Biden doesn't want to talk about is what I was trying to find out about."

Since it is highly unlikely that the Senate will gather a 2/3 majority to vote to convict, the purpose of voting articles of impeachment can be only the wish to harm Trump's 2020 campaign. If the consequence is that enough dirt on Biden gets turned over, Senator Lieawatha might end up being the Democratic nominee after all.

This post has been edited by Martin: 29 November 2019 - 03:36 PM

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#10 User is offline   gravelrash 

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 04:05 PM

I agree with Martin. On further consideration, this "impeachment inquiry" doubles as an attempt at a backdoor popular vote to void the electoral college. Which A-dumb Schitt signaled when he said that he would "listen to his constiuents". Again, who is the real danger to our Constitution and rule of law?
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#11 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 04:05 PM

View PostMartin, on 29 November 2019 - 03:36 PM, said:

"Impeachment Lite"?

If she quashes an impeachment resolution, she and the Democratic delegation in the House are going to have to explain to the impeachment enthusiasts in their districts why they could not summon enough votes to carry the resolution. I doubt that any answer will satisfy them. They will inevitably end up disgusted with her and her party.

If an impeachment resolution passes, with or without her support, the House Democrats are throwing an extremely hot potato into the hands of Senate Democrats. Joe Biden can legitimately claim executive privilege when cross-examined even though that will sound just like Richard Nixon. Hunter Biden, though, dealt with Ukraine as a private citizen. When the Republican manager in the Senate tries to wring some embarrassing testimony out of him, all he can do is take the Fifth Amendment just like any gangster or IRS executive. The implication that he was doing something in Ukraine which would incriminate him if he testifies about it will imply that Trump asking Ukraine to investigate the Bidens was not only permissible but a proper use of investigative authority. "What Hunter Biden doesn't want to talk about is what I was trying to find out about."

Since it is highly unlikely that the Senate will gather a 2/3 majority to vote to convict, the purpose of voting articles of impeachment can be only the wish to harm Trump's 2020 campaign. If the consequence is that enough dirt on Biden gets turned over, Senator Lieawatha might end up being the Democratic nominee after all.


That's why she need to quietly quash it while publicly appearing to want the opposite.

By the numbers: To quash it she needs 17 dems to vote "no". There are 33 Dems in districts that Trump won, including 13 where Trump won by 6% or more. Start with those 13, that might be leaning 'no' anyway, get 4 more from the rest of the 33. Then her and other Dems in non-Trump disticts can go home, wring their hands while saying "Golly, Gee, we really tried, but it's those OTHER people that let us down."

YES, It's dishonest and devious as hell. But if Pelosi is half the CUNning Trickster that I think she is, this should be second-nature to her.
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#12 User is offline   gravelrash 

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 04:15 PM

 Dean Adam Smithee, on 29 November 2019 - 04:05 PM, said:

That's why she need to quietly quash it while publicly appearing to want the opposite.

By the numbers: To quash it she needs 17 dems to vote "no". There are 33 Dems in districts that Trump won, including 13 where Trump won by 6% or more. Start with those 13, that might be leaning 'no' anyway, get 4 more from the rest of the 33. Then her and other Dems in non-Trump disticts can go home, wring their hands while saying "Golly, Gee, we really tried, but it's those OTHER people that let us down."

YES, It's dishonest and devious as hell. But if Pelosi is half the CUNning Trickster that I think she is, this should be second-nature to her.


Nutsy has a personal interest to kill impeachment. She has family on the board of Burisma as well.
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#13 User is offline   Natural Selection 

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 06:11 PM

View Postgravelrash, on 29 November 2019 - 04:15 PM, said:

Nutsy has a personal interest to kill impeachment. She has family on the board of Burisma as well.


GTF outta here! I haven't heard about that. What is it about democrats and their attraction to corruption? :scratch:
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#14 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 07:28 PM

View Postgravelrash, on 29 November 2019 - 04:15 PM, said:

Nutsy has a personal interest to kill impeachment. She has family on the board of Burisma as well.



Ooooh. That's VERY interesting.
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#15 User is online   zurg 

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 10:56 AM

 Dean Adam Smithee, on 29 November 2019 - 04:05 PM, said:

That's why she need to quietly quash it while publicly appearing to want the opposite.

By the numbers: To quash it she needs 17 dems to vote "no". There are 33 Dems in districts that Trump won, including 13 where Trump won by 6% or more. Start with those 13, that might be leaning 'no' anyway, get 4 more from the rest of the 33. Then her and other Dems in non-Trump disticts can go home, wring their hands while saying "Golly, Gee, we really tried, but it's those OTHER people that let us down."

YES, It's dishonest and devious as hell. But if Pelosi is half the CUNning Trickster that I think she is, this should be second-nature to her.

I agree here. Although I don’t think this was the intent when the “impeachment inquiry” started. But I agree this was her plan B all along. While Schiff brain probably doesn’t have a viable plan B - he must stick it through and can only act on any plan B after the votes are cast. While Nancy’s been putting HER plan B in action all along.

 gravelrash, on 29 November 2019 - 04:15 PM, said:

Nutsy has a personal interest to kill impeachment. She has family on the board of Burisma as well.

Who?
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