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#1 User is online   Moderator T 

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  Posted 04 February 2020 - 05:22 AM

Every Time Palestinians Say ‘No,’ They Lose


By Bret Stephens
New York Times
1/30/20

EXCERPT:

Regarding President Trump’s peace plan for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the instant conventional wisdom is that it’s a geopolitical nonstarter, a gift to Benjamin Netanyahu and an electoral ploy by the president to win Jewish votes in Florida rather than Palestinian hearts in Ramallah.

It may be all of those things. But nobody will benefit less from a curt dismissal of the plan than the Palestinians themselves, whose leaders are again letting history pass them by.

The record of Arab-Israeli peace efforts can be summed up succinctly: Nearly every time the Arab side said no, it wound up with less.

That was true after it rejected the 1947 U.N. Partition Plan, which would have created a Palestinian state on a much larger footprint than the one that was left after Israel’s war of independence. It was true in 1967, after Jordan refused Israel’s entreaties not to attack, which resulted in the end of Jordanian rule in the West Bank.

It was true in 2000, when Syria rejected an Israeli offer to return the Golan Heights, which ultimately led to U.S. recognition of Israeli sovereignty of that territory. It was true later the same year, after Yasir Arafat refused Israel’s offer of a Palestinian state with a capital in East Jerusalem, which led to two decades of terrorism, Palestinian civil war, the collapse of the Israeli peace camp and the situation we have now.

It’s in that pattern that the blunt rejection by Palestinian leaders of the Trump plan — the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, denounced it as a “conspiracy deal” — should be seen. Refusal today will almost inevitably lead to getting less tomorrow.

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#2 User is online   Taggart Transcontinental 

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 05:49 AM

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The map of a future Palestine looks less like an ordinary state than it does the M.R.I. of a lung or kidney.

One could also draw it to a gerrymandered county for a Democrat in California.

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Taken together, this would be a historic achievement, not the “scam” that liberal critics of the deal claim. The purpose of a Palestinian state ought to be to deliver dramatically better prospects for the Palestinian people, not tokens of self-importance for their kleptocratic and repressive leaders.


When has anything the socialists ever done to be for the "benefit" of their citizens in ANY Country. Sure they may couch their "free healthcare for all" policy as better delivery for every citizen, but it amounts to the ability to control the population through the use of denial / reward of service, and the ability to gain financially for the controllers. Rarely if ever do people gain a better outcome in the long run from any marxist policy.


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That begins with improving the quality of Palestinian governance, first of all by replacing leaders whose principal interests lie in perpetuating their misrule. If Abbas — now in the 16th year of his elected four-year term of office — really had Palestinian interests at heart, he would step down. So would Hamas’s cruel and cynical leaders in Gaza. That the peace plan insists on the latter isn’t an obstacle to Palestinian statehood. It’s a prerequisite for it.


If Maduro gave a crap about Venezuela he would step down, that is the same for any marxist ideologue. It is about perpetuating their power not building a better future for their people. That is why Hugo Chavez's family lives in France and is worth about 5 Billion dollars. It is why none of these people give a real crap about their people.



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#3 User is offline   ilja 

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 05:51 AM

After I read the first few paragraphs of this article, I went back to the heading to see if this was from the Babylon Bee because it was too positive toward Trump's plan to really be from the New York Times. Then once I went to the link, I finally found the negative I was expecting. However, it turned around so much before it got to the end that I'm now questioning if perhaps Trump's Peace Plan is not as sound as I originally thought since the New York Times or at least this one writer appears to like it.

Seriously, I can remember in the past passionately arguing against a 2 state solution from fear of God's anger. I would love to hear from our long-time friend in Israel on what he thinks of this plan and how the Palestinians on the ground are receiving it.
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#4 User is offline   weareacouple 

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 10:08 AM

View PostTaggart Transcontinental, on 04 February 2020 - 05:49 AM, said:

One could also draw it to a gerrymandered county for a Democrat in California.



When has anything the socialists ever done to be for the "benefit" of their citizens in ANY Country. Sure they may couch their "free healthcare for all" policy as better delivery for every citizen, but it amounts to the ability to control the population through the use of denial / reward of service, and the ability to gain financially for the controllers. Rarely if ever do people gain a better outcome in the long run from any marxist policy.




If Maduro gave a crap about Venezuela he would step down, that is the same for any marxist ideologue. It is about perpetuating their power not building a better future for their people. That is why Hugo Chavez's family lives in France and is worth about 5 Billion dollars. It is why none of these people give a real crap about their people.
I completely agree with you on this
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#5 User is offline   Holland25 

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 10:03 AM

There will never be peace in the Middle East.I had a course at the Seminary and a professor spoke of how mercy and forgiveness is seen by Middle Eastern cultures as being weak. It is considered a feminine trait. They believe that an eye for an eye is the only manly response. I don't know it sounded logical. Add to that the evil of Islam and it's one sacrament--murder. It is their one solution for any of their problems. Their whole culture is so evil. Could you imagine living in a place like that? Why mostly their? What other culture wants to live in war zone forever? You know what I think of Islam and their culture. They and their land are bewitched and cursed. Maybe I am wrong about a lot of things but I think I am safe when I say there will never be peace in the Middle East. I cringe every time I hear a politician say some new agreement will bring peace.
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