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Should christians "fear" death? Well, I do. Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 02:22 PM

And, NO, not any current worries, but just thinkin'...

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.”
- John 5:24

"O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."
- Widely attributed to Billy S but actually from the Good Book. 1 Cor 15:55--57 et al.


In MY case, first worry is Mrs Smithee. Who's going to teach her how to update her cellphone? And/or which updates from MS are legit vs bogus on her PC? I'd rather not "shuffle off this mortal coil" with those things still open.
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#2 User is online   kestrel 

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 03:02 PM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 21 March 2020 - 02:22 PM, said:

And, NO, not any current worries, but just thinkin'...

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life."
- John 5:24

"O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."
- Widely attributed to Billy S but actually from the Good Book. 1 Cor 15:55--57 et al.


In MY case, first worry is Mrs Smithee. Who's going to teach her how to update her cellphone? And/or which updates from MS are legit vs bogus on her PC? I'd rather not "shuffle off this mortal coil" with those things still open.

No I don't believe we need to fear death but there is a part of the "carnal self" (see Flesh) that does..and at the same time abhors Heaven I'm of the belief that anyone who desires Heaven shall have it..Whats really strange to me is that there are many that do not.
Kestrel..

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#3 User is offline   Hieronymous 

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 04:39 PM

No. First Bible passage listed in my sig line is worth a read.
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#4 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 04:40 PM

View Postkestrel, on 21 March 2020 - 03:02 PM, said:

No I don't believe we need to fear death but there is a part of the "carnal self" (see Flesh) that does..and at the same time abhors Heaven I'm of the belief that anyone who desires Heaven shall have it..Whats really strange to me is that there are many that do not.
Kestrel..


Re - that final comment: For me the scary part is the idea of eternal life. Whether Heaven or Hell, I don't wanna live forever. I mean seriously, think about ETERNITY: A hundred million, billion, trillion years is but a split-second compared to ETERNITY. Here I am only 64 years old and I'm already bored sh*tless most of the time. And keep in mind most of the things that are fun to do are probably prohibited in Heaven anyway...

So, summing up, yes of course I'd rather go to Heaven than Hell. But in neither case do I wanna live for ETERNITY.

:(
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#5 User is offline   Hieronymous 

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 04:41 PM

By death are we talking about death of the body or of the soul?
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#6 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 05:35 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 21 March 2020 - 04:40 PM, said:

Re - that final comment: For me the scary part is the idea of eternal life. Whether Heaven or Hell, I don't wanna live forever. I mean seriously, think about ETERNITY: A hundred million, billion, trillion years is but a split-second compared to ETERNITY. Here I am only 64 years old and I'm already bored sh*tless most of the time. And keep in mind most of the things that are fun to do are probably prohibited in Heaven anyway...

So, summing up, yes of course I'd rather go to Heaven than Hell. But in neither case do I wanna live for ETERNITY.

:(


Best I can say is that this "Life as We Know It" is maybe "Boot Camp"" for whatever comes next. I've got a number of questions for the "Maker". That's okay, I'm prepared to stand in line.

View PostMontyPython, on 21 March 2020 - 04:40 PM, said:

Here I am only 64 years old and I'm already bored sh*tless most of the time. And keep in mind most of the things that are fun to do are probably prohibited in Heaven anyway...


I haven't heard ANYTHING about heaven prohibiting Harley Davidsons nor women dancing nekkid.
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#7 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 05:51 PM

View PostHieronymous, on 21 March 2020 - 04:41 PM, said:

By death are we talking about death of the body or of the soul?


The body is temporal, the soul is immortal.

I get called home to that Great Gig in The Sky, maybe I can finally pass that exam on Quantum Electrodynamics.
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#8 User is offline   Severian 

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 05:56 PM

View PostDean Adam Smithee, on 21 March 2020 - 05:35 PM, said:

Best I can say is that this "Life as We Know It" is maybe "Boot Camp"" for whatever comes next. I've got a number of questions for the "Maker". That's okay, I'm prepared to stand in line.



I haven't heard ANYTHING about heaven prohibiting Harley Davidsons nor women dancing nekkid.

Tyrell: I expected you to come here sooner.

Roy Baty: It's not an easy thing to meet your maker.
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#9 User is online   kestrel 

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 07:13 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 21 March 2020 - 04:40 PM, said:

Re - that final comment: For me the scary part is the idea of eternal life. Whether Heaven or Hell, I don't wanna live forever. I mean seriously, think about ETERNITY: A hundred million, billion, trillion years is but a split-second compared to ETERNITY. Here I am only 64 years old and I'm already bored sh*tless most of the time. And keep in mind most of the things that are fun to do are probably prohibited in Heaven anyway...

So, summing up, yes of course I'd rather go to Heaven than Hell. But in neither case do I wanna live for ETERNITY.

:(

I could go on for hours about my opinions about life and death..but I won't. I'm really sorry Monty that you feel this way and i wouldn't in any way try to preach to you so as change your mind..but I will say this, Jesus said something to the effect that "What is beyond your conception is what I have prepared for you" in other words the very BEST times that you and I are capable of having in this Life aren't even a shadow of what God has prepared for us...I have no empirical proof of that but in my heart (whatever that is:):) I have faith, not based on any kind of me being some kind of holy guy (I'm definitely Not!) nor am I particularly religious, But I trust God. One thing I feel compelled to point out to you is that you stated that " But in neither case do I wanna live for ETERNITY." I would posit that you and I have NEVER lived in the eternal sense rather we have been dying since the day we were born and our only reference of course is our own experience (and the Buddhist says "and yet and yet) there are what I call "Echoes" in that experience that speak to me (again that heart thing:):):) Echoes that I hear in music and laughter and even silence..at any rate I apologize if I have overstepped and would say that I can't wait to sit with you around a heavenly campfire and play guitars and sing 7 bridges road in perfect harmony with a couple of cold brews and maybe some fine agricultural products:):):)http://www.rightnation.us/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/drinkers.gif


Kestrel...

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#10 User is offline   wrg39 

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 07:39 PM

I am not afraid of death as everyone will die sooner or later.
I am concerned about how I will and what will happen to my wife afterwards.
A liberal high school teacher in the 50,s told the class that everyone is afraid of death, I told him I was not afraid of something that will happen. He started making fun of me calling me “Fearless Dick”.
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#11 User is offline   MontyPython 

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 08:11 PM

View Postkestrel, on 21 March 2020 - 07:13 PM, said:

I could go on for hours about my opinions about life and death..but I won't. I'm really sorry Monty that you feel this way and i wouldn't in any way try to preach to you so as change your mind..but I will say this, Jesus said something to the effect that "What is beyond your conception is what I have prepared for you" in other words the very BEST times that you and I are capable of having in this Life aren't even a shadow of what God has prepared for us...I have no empirical proof of that but in my heart (whatever that is:):) I have faith, not based on any kind of me being some kind of holy guy (I'm definitely Not!) nor am I particularly religious, But I trust God. One thing I feel compelled to point out to you is that you stated that " But in neither case do I wanna live for ETERNITY." I would posit that you and I have NEVER lived in the eternal sense rather we have been dying since the day we were born and our only reference of course is our own experience (and the Buddhist says "and yet and yet) there are what I call "Echoes" in that experience that speak to me (again that heart thing:):):) Echoes that I hear in music and laughter and even silence..at any rate I apologize if I have overstepped and would say that I can't wait to sit with you around a heavenly campfire and play guitars and sing 7 bridges road in perfect harmony with a couple of cold brews and maybe some fine agricultural products:):):)http://www.rightnation.us/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/drinkers.gif


Kestrel...


I have faith too. :) And naturally I hope for the best, not the worst.

:2up:
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#12 User is offline   Junto 

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 09:32 PM

View PostMontyPython, on 21 March 2020 - 04:40 PM, said:

Re - that final comment: For me the scary part is the idea of eternal life. Whether Heaven or Hell, I don't wanna live forever. I mean seriously, think about ETERNITY: A hundred million, billion, trillion years is but a split-second compared to ETERNITY. Here I am only 64 years old and I'm already bored sh*tless most of the time. And keep in mind most of the things that are fun to do are probably prohibited in Heaven anyway...

So, summing up, yes of course I'd rather go to Heaven than Hell. But in neither case do I wanna live for ETERNITY.

:(

What's the old adage - Everyone wants to go to Heaven, just not today..

One thing to think about (or attempt to as it is impossible) is the idea that time in this universe, and especially how we are made to perceive it is not necessarily constant for not just people in this universe, but in the one above ours (the base reality, ie. Heaven). In other words, we most likely will experience time in an altogether different manner, if at all, in the next life.

Take a photon created in the furnace of a distant star. It takes thousands, even tens of thousands of years for it to just escape the star itself, and many more countless years to traverse the galaxy or beyond to finally hit your eye - but the photon experiences no time in between its creation and its end.

I wonder about how the base reality is constructed, and whether or not time even applies at all, and how causality exists or if it does.
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#13 User is online   kestrel 

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 09:54 PM

View PostJunto, on 21 March 2020 - 09:32 PM, said:

What's the old adage - Everyone wants to go to Heaven, just not today..

One thing to think about (or attempt to as it is impossible) is the idea that time in this universe, and especially how we are made to perceive it is not necessarily constant for not just people in this universe, but in the one above ours (the base reality, ie. Heaven). In other words, we most likely will experience time in an altogether different manner, if at all, in the next life.

Take a photon created in the furnace of a distant star. It takes thousands, even tens of thousands of years for it to just escape the star itself, and many more countless years to traverse the galaxy or beyond to finally hit your eye - but the photon experiences no time in between its creation and its end.

I wonder about how the base reality is constructed, and whether or not time even applies at all, and how causality exists or if it does.

Maybe this? https://youtu.be/JwYX52BP2Sk
Kestrel...

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#14 User is offline   Junto 

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 10:06 PM

View Postkestrel, on 21 March 2020 - 09:54 PM, said:

Maybe this? https://youtu.be/JwYX52BP2Sk
Kestrel...

I have watched The Wizard of Oz with DSotM playing over it two different times - and appreciate the music and the experience.



Personally, this is more from my formative years. :)
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#15 User is online   kestrel 

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 10:24 PM

View PostJunto, on 21 March 2020 - 10:06 PM, said:

I have watched The Wizard of Oz with DSotM playing over it two different times - and appreciate the music and the experience.



Personally, this is more from my formative years. :)

Didn't want to play?

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#16 User is offline   east dallasite 

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 10:25 PM

And then some of us believe in reincarnation, although eventually we get it right and achieve nirvana or whatever.
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#17 User is online   JerryL 

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 11:39 PM

View Postkestrel, on 21 March 2020 - 07:13 PM, said:

I could go on for hours about my opinions about life and death..but I won't. I'm really sorry Monty that you feel this way and i wouldn't in any way try to preach to you so as change your mind..but I will say this, Jesus said something to the effect that "What is beyond your conception is what I have prepared for you" in other words the very BEST times that you and I are capable of having in this Life aren't even a shadow of what God has prepared for us...I have no empirical proof of that but in my heart (whatever that is:):) I have faith, not based on any kind of me being some kind of holy guy (I'm definitely Not!) nor am I particularly religious, But I trust God. One thing I feel compelled to point out to you is that you stated that " But in neither case do I wanna live for ETERNITY." I would posit that you and I have NEVER lived in the eternal sense rather we have been dying since the day we were born and our only reference of course is our own experience (and the Buddhist says "and yet and yet) there are what I call "Echoes" in that experience that speak to me (again that heart thing:):):) Echoes that I hear in music and laughter and even silence..at any rate I apologize if I have overstepped and would say that I can't wait to sit with you around a heavenly campfire and play guitars and sing 7 bridges road in perfect harmony with a couple of cold brews and maybe some fine agricultural products:):):)http://www.rightnation.us/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/drinkers.gif


Kestrel...

This is pretty much how I feel. There is so much that is beyond my comprehension. All I can do is know that God is good and what he has prepared for me is good.

Think back to the Garden of Eden. What was prohibited? Eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That is it. The rest was simply life with God as man made in his image. There was no shame. There was no sickness.

Now, Jesus has defeated the Sin we brought into the world. We are free of that.

While I can't begin to comprehend what Heaven will be like, since we still live in a fallen world with sin all around us, I can't imagine that I will bored.
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#18 User is offline   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 22 March 2020 - 10:26 AM

View PostJunto, on 21 March 2020 - 09:32 PM, said:

What's the old adage - Everyone wants to go to Heaven, just not today..


:thumbsup:

View PostJunto, on 21 March 2020 - 09:32 PM, said:

One thing to think about (or attempt to as it is impossible) is the idea that time in this universe, and especially how we are made to perceive it is not necessarily constant for not just people in this universe, but in the one above ours (the base reality, ie. Heaven). In other words, we most likely will experience time in an altogether different manner, if at all, in the next life.

Take a photon created in the furnace of a distant star. It takes thousands, even tens of thousands of years for it to just escape the star itself, and many more countless years to traverse the galaxy or beyond to finally hit your eye - but the photon experiences no time in between its creation and its end.

I wonder about how the base reality is constructed, and whether or not time even applies at all, and how causality exists or if it does.


Leaning towards that myself. I believe there IS an eternity and a heaven but probably not anything at all like the Sunday School version of it with everybody standing around singing "Hallelujah" in front of The Almighty. I see the Almighty as more of a do-er, a maker, a creator, than someone who wants to spend an eternity listening to choir practice. I'm also thinking that The Almighty wouldn't have created the vastness of 'space' in the universe/multiverse unless that somehow factors into the whole thing.

All this "Time Out" is giving me time to re-watch some of my favorite PBS/NOVA episodes. Three of my favorites are:

NOVA: The Fabric of the Cosmos: What is Space?

NOVA: The Fabric of the Cosmos: The Illusion of Time.

PBS: The Farthest: Voyager in Space with an excellent soundtrack including Pink Floyd and Rose Royce. The Farthest Official Trailer


This post has been edited by Dean Adam Smithee: 22 March 2020 - 10:27 AM

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#19 User is online   kestrel 

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Posted 22 March 2020 - 04:07 PM

View PostJerryL, on 21 March 2020 - 11:39 PM, said:

This is pretty much how I feel. There is so much that is beyond my comprehension. All I can do is know that God is good and what he has prepared for me is good.

Think back to the Garden of Eden. What was prohibited? Eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That is it. The rest was simply life with God as man made in his image. There was no shame. There was no sickness.

Now, Jesus has defeated the Sin we brought into the world. We are free of that.

While I can't begin to comprehend what Heaven will be like, since we still live in a fallen world with sin all around us, I can't imagine that I will bored.

Well said Jerry!...I've been a believer for 45 or so years (I got in a bit late...:) taught Bible studies for a long time and one of the things that continually astonishes me is that as far as I can tell the only motive that God has in dealing with us is that He loves us more than we can comprehend...love, That's it. And I also cannot comprehend heaven and eternity other than those "Echoes" I spoke about earlier and every once in a while I think the Father draws aside the curtain for a brief instant (the effect to me is somewhat like what Lewis described as "Music beyond a distant hill" and if we're paying attention we catch a Note or two.)
Kestrel...

This post has been edited by kestrel: 23 March 2020 - 09:27 AM

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#20 User is online   JerryL 

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Posted 22 March 2020 - 08:00 PM

View Postkestrel, on 22 March 2020 - 04:07 PM, said:

Well said Jerry!...I've been a believer for 45 or so years (I got in a bit late...:) taught Bible studies for a long time and one of the things that continually astonishes me is that as far as I can tell the only motive that God has in dealing with us is that He loves us more that we can comprehend...love, That's it. And I also cannot comprehend heaven and eternity other than those "Echoes" I spoke about earlier and every once in a while I think the Father draws aside the curtain for a brief instant (the effect to me is somewhat like what Lewis described as "Music beyond a distant hill" and if we're paying attention we catch a Note or two.)
Kestrel...

Thank you. I agree wholeheartedly on His love for us. God did not have to make a way to reconcile us with him...but he did, hallelujah!! That is love. What he originally intended for us and what he has prepared for us were and are the fulfillment of that love.

I like that description from Lewis. Every now and then I experience a special closeness where God's presence is almost physical in its intensity. What do I want to do during those times? Thank and praise Him simply because He is worthy! "I" fade in his majesty.

ETA: I never did address the topic of the thread, LOL.

I think we are called by God to not fear death as death is only the end of this physical body and the beginning of the Promise. That being said, easier said than done. I am 57 and getting closer, but I definitely don't want to die. I actually fear cancer and a long, painful death that several family and friends have gone through/are going through now. I lost my BIL last week to stupid little crap that killed him because of his weakened state due to chemo. Does death terrify me? No, God has taken that level of fear away from me because I have faith in His promises. But scare me...sure. Should I be scared? About that, all I can do is pray.

This post has been edited by JerryL: 22 March 2020 - 08:06 PM

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