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Dean Adam Smithee

Multiple deaths in South Florida high school shooting

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Ladybird

You just defeated your own argument. If the goal is in fact to save life, then why allow access to anything which can be used to kill in mass?

What is easier to kill en mass with? A gun, or a vehicle? Come to think of it, if he didn't have a vehicle would he have even been able to get there?

Like I said, if you cannot get past blaming or believing that the problem is due to access to intimate objects nothing will change. Plus, tell me what magic beans law or method WILL ONLY remove the guns out of the hands of the mentally deranged and criminal element. I love the idea, but tell me how it can be done in a manner that leaves 0 chance for it's abuse by government or denies law abiding sane people a Constitutional right.

 

The only sure way to end crap like this is that when people are flagged and shown to be a danger the people who we pay a hell of a lot of money to, actually do their damned jobs and not worry about P.C., hurting peoples feelings and crap like that. AND, as I said stop this belief that the problem is tied to intimate objects which by themselves pose no danger. In the hands of a crazy a Truck is just as Dangerous as any firearm. This has been proven, but yet which one do you think should be regulated and banned if necessary. Think about it this way, how often do you hear about mass shootings in nations like Iraq or Afghanistan? Why is it so rare? On the other hand car bombings are pretty common aren't they? Ask yourself why one and not the other. It's relevant because it just goes to show that those who are intent on killing people simply shift tactics. They know if they started shooting at a public event or large gathering they themselves would be shot pretty damn quick.

 

Again, this is a perfect example of how tactics are simply changed to accomplish a sick and twisted goal.

 

Oki

So the answer is no, we shouldn’t confiscate weapons from a mentally ill person, who has made threats.

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oki

If there is a reasonable belief that someone is an imminent threat to themselves or others, the police can force them into a mental health facility for evaluation and treatment.

 

 

 

 

Which would not have prevented him from going in with a couple handguns. Or a shotgun. Or..... an assault rifle. It would have just made it mildly harder to get his hands on the scarier looking weapon. People would still be dead. Do you remember Columbine? That was 1999. How many people were saved by a gun ban that day?

 

If you want someone to blame, blame Kennedy and Reagan. Blame the courts of the 70's. Blame Social Security. All of these and more contributed to the weakening of in-patient mental health treatment over the years.

 

Keep in mind that the term "assault rifle' is so damned asinine and loose in definition you can have two firearms which utilize the exact same round, have the exact same rate of fire and capacity but one is not an assault rifle while the other is.

 

Oki

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That_Guy

Have you had one meaningful conversation in this thread?

 

That would depend on your definition of "meaningful."

 

Why can't you answer the questions asked of you or respond to an entire post? Why do you simply cherry pick the parts that you think you can handle?

 

Not everything deserves a response.

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Ladybird

Cruz, it is claimed, belonged to some white nationalist miltia group.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/15/white-nationalist-militia-claims-florida-shooting-suspect-as-member/

 

I post it only because there are stories going around the ‘net about him being a registered Democrat or a member of Antifa. I’ve even seen claims that he’s a DACA child from Honduras.

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Big Dave

Actually, if you read the article in the NYT, it is one of those Obama nothingburgers. Mental health and background checks. The people in the comments section (surprisingly) take them to task for a sensational headline that does not connect to what he actually said.

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oki

So the answer is no, we shouldn’t confiscate weapons from a mentally ill person, who has made threats.

 

And how do you ONLY confiscate from the people who are threats? Please share your crystal ball that tells you which one is the threat vs someone who has false accusations thrown at them or someone with a bone to pick? Oh trust me, I agree with the idea. BUT, it doesn't do jack sh$t to stop the problem because there are countless other ways in which they can carry out an attack. Not recognizing this and thinking that removing firearms, banning or making them harder to get will accomplish much is a type of failing to recognize and deal with the problem. You solve the problem by removing the threat, not by removing the means. If it was a guns issue then why weren't we having these types of mass shootings prior to the current laws and restrictions? After all, magazine fed semi auto rifles have been available to the public since at least the 1950's and handguns before that even.

 

By the way, do you even know what makes and assault rifle an 'assault rifle'? This is important because people calling for a ban on something they know little to nothing about is like a carpenter trying to tell a Doctor how to run a hospital.

 

Oki

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oki

Cruz, it is claimed, belonged to some white nationalist miltia group.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/15/white-nationalist-militia-claims-florida-shooting-suspect-as-member/

 

I post it only because there are stories going around the ‘net about him being a registered Democrat or a member of Antifa. I’ve even seen claims that he’s a DACA child from Honduras.

 

 

Then why would he be wearing a Trump hat if any of the above where true? Judging by the hands of a few of his 'friends' in some pictures I tend to wonder if he was a gang member though. BUT, to be honest I doubt any of that had one damn thing to do with this.

 

Oki

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Dutch13

I thought 'mass shooting' was defined by four or more people being shot? Damn, these fools can't even follow their own standards.

 

Oki

 

It only said "School Shooting", not mass shooting.

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oki

It only said "School Shooting", not mass shooting.

 

Ahh that's right. None the less though I didn't know suicides, stray bullets, cops not observing safe weapons handling procedures, counted.

Coarse when you want to make headlines and your dealing with people who believe everything their told...

 

 

Oki

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Ladybird

Then why would he be wearing a Trump hat if any of the above where true? Judging by the hands of a few of his 'friends' in some pictures I tend to wonder if he was a gang member though. BUT, to be honest I doubt any of that had one damn thing to do with this.

 

Oki

It may have to do with some similarly name person, Nicholas de Jesus Cruz, being identified as the shooter first. This happened with the Las Vegas shooting also, I recall.

 

(Glad I have an uncommon name)

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oki

It may have to do with some similarly name person, Nicholas de Jesus Cruz, being identified as the shooter first. This happened with the Las Vegas shooting also, I recall.

 

(Glad I have an uncommon name)

 

Either way, people need to get some facts before they make assumptions. It's one thing when you have people who are part of the investigation or part of it in some way reporting even anonymously, it's another when it's people who in no way shape or form would have info.

 

Still.. what makes more sense? Removing the threat, or removing the means? Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper and safer to instead of banning this gun or regulating that one to lock up those who are a threat? What's more effective, what ensures that the person can't carry out acts of violence? Taking away their guns or taking them of the street?

 

Oki

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Severian

It may have to do with some similarly name person, Nicholas de Jesus Cruz, being identified as the shooter first. This happened with the Las Vegas shooting also, I recall.

 

(Glad I have an uncommon name)

Wait, was he a "white Hispanic?"

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Ladybird

Either way, people need to get some facts before they make assumptions. It's one thing when you have people who are part of the investigation or part of it in some way reporting even anonymously, it's another when it's people who in no way shape or form would have info.

 

Still.. what makes more sense? Removing the threat, or removing the means? Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper and safer to instead of banning this gun or regulating that one to lock up those who are a threat? What's more effective, what ensures that the person can't carry out acts of violence? Taking away their guns or taking them of the street?

 

Oki

No, it would not be easier to lock away citizens, who have committed no crime other than being insane. Not for any length of time anyway. They will be released.

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mjperry51

Cruz, it is claimed, belonged to some white nationalist miltia group.

https://nypost.com/2...pect-as-member/

 

I post it only because there are stories going around the 'net about him being a registered Democrat or a member of Antifa. I've even seen claims that he's a DACA child from Honduras.

Yeah -- and at a similar point in the timeline of the Gabby Giffords shooter he was a right wing extremist. .

 

cool_shades.gif

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Ladybird

Wait, was he a "white Hispanic?"

I don’t know what he is, since he was adopted by a family named Cruz.

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oki

No, it would not be easier to lock away citizens, who have committed no crime other than being insane. Not for any length of time anyway. They will be released.

 

 

Really? Know let me get this straight....

 

Person makes threats, threats credible and strong enough that people do not feel safe around him, not only students but staff. Enough that the school BANS HIM FROM THE PROPERTY. The F.B.I. red flags him and that's not enough? BUT, it's okay to take away private property just in case?

If the case is strong enough to take away someones property then isn't the case strong enough to lock them away?

 

You are in effect showing and supporting the idea that taking away the means(firearms) will solve the problem when in reality not only does it fail to solve the problem, it puts both additional burdens on Police as well as placing them in Danger. Does it ensure the person will no longer be a threat? YES OR NO. Like I said, if the case is strong enough to TAKE PROPERTY AND DENY THEM A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT WITHOUT TRIAL, THEN SHOULDN'T IT BE STRONG ENOUGH TO LOCK THEM UP?

 

 

Tell ya' what, if this same 'kids' had made the same threats to your place of work or home, and then drove a truck through, killing as many would you be demanding vehicles be taken away from people like you are guns, or would you be demanding to know why he wasn't locked up?

 

Oki

Edited by oki

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Taggart Transcontinental

Cruz, it is claimed, belonged to some white nationalist miltia group.

https://nypost.com/2...pect-as-member/

 

I post it only because there are stories going around the 'net about him being a registered Democrat or a member of Antifa. I've even seen claims that he's a DACA child from Honduras.

 

ROF is a bunch of morons. Look up their lovely little website, it will make your skin crawl.

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oki

ROF is a bunch of morons. Look up their lovely little website, it will make your skin crawl.

 

As most of the victims where Caucasian race won't matter and neither will any affiliations with any group. Of coarse his M.A.G.A. hat will make it all Trumps fault.

 

Oki

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MontyPython

You don’t allow him access to firearms.

 

Great idea! Then afterwards we could all flap our arms and fly to Mars.

 

Hey, both are equally possible.

 

(Hint: Any gun you can't get legally you can get illegally.)

 

B)

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Taggart Transcontinental

Great idea! Then afterwards we could all flap our arms and fly to Mars.

 

Hey, both are equally possible.

 

(Hint: Any gun you can't get legally you can get illegally.)

 

B)

 

You want to make the DNC and leftist in the RNC support the wall? Ban firearms and wait for the cartel to start supplying them. They will be demanding a wall 200 feet high and 100 feet deep, and they will build it in a month.

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MontyPython

You want to make the DNC and leftist in the RNC support the wall? Ban firearms and wait for the cartel to start supplying them. They will be demanding a wall 200 feet high and 100 feet deep, and they will build it in a month.

 

LOL, yeah, that just might work.

 

Then afterwards, of course, repeal the ban.

 

:yes:

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SARGE

You want to make the DNC and leftist in the RNC support the wall? Ban firearms and wait for the cartel to start supplying them. They will be demanding a wall 200 feet high and 100 feet deep, and they will build it in a month.

 

No, they won't because they and their constituents will be profiting from the transactions.

 

Money/votes.

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