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Gertie Keddle

Carolina Teachers Refuse to Release Students’ Final Grades Unless Scho

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Big Dave

And they don't see that it is (was now--go Trump!) ISIS and the Taliban whose ideology is most similar to their own.

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NH Populist

I've known Patriotic Americans T_G, you're no Patriotic American...

Edited by NH Populist

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Ladybird

Only those who are ideologically on the right are 'patriotic Americans'?

 

Get bent.

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RedSoloCup

Only those who are ideologically on the right are 'patriotic Americans'?

 

Get bent.

 

:rolleyes:

 

I've known Patriotic Americans T_G, you're no Patriotic American...

 

He sure ain't...

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JerryL

Only those who are ideologically on the right are 'patriotic Americans'?

 

Get bent.

 

Can you explain to me how a leftist (notice the post in question did not state "liberal"), who by their agenda and through their actions prove that they would like to see the Constitution largely rewritten or completely scrapped and, until that can happen, support judges modifying it via judicial rulings that go against bot the will of the people and the very document they are sworn to uphold, can be described as "patriotic Americans?"

 

To be patriotic, don't you actually have to support your country? To support your country, don't you actually have to believe in your system of government?

 

So, speaking of bent...

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Rock N' Roll Right Winger

Only those who are ideologically on the right are 'patriotic Americans'?

 

Get bent.

So says the champion for criminal thugs and perverts.

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MontyPython

Only those who are ideologically on the right are 'patriotic Americans'?

 

Get bent.

 

On the "right"? No, true liberals can be patriotic too. It's not us liberals who want to tear America down and replace it with something unrecognizable to the founders & framers. That's the leftists. And if leftists loved America, they wouldn't want to do that. Patriotic Americans wouldn't support open borders. They wouldn't make excuses for thugs & criminals like Trayvon Martin & Michael Brown. They wouldn't try to hamstring (or even eliminate) ICE, border patrol, police, etc. They wouldn't repeat long-debunked myths like "Hands up don't shoot". They wouldn't support hooligans like Antifa & BLM. They would support constitutionalist judges like Brett Kavanaugh and oppose activist judges. They wouldn't support the despicable slimeballs who tried to destroy Kavanaugh's life/family/career with vicious lies purely for political grandstanding purposes. They wouldn't try to indoctrinate children in school. They wouldn't try to remove all references to Christianity from public places. They wouldn't try to "cover up" history, tear down historic statues, rewrite history books, etc.

 

And far too much more to possibly list it all here. Nope, you don't hafta be a rightwinger to be a patriot. But if you support Democrats, you do need to take a long hard look at your lack of patriotism.

 

<_<

Edited by MontyPython

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Alexis

Can you explain to me how a leftist (notice the post in question did not state "liberal"), who by their agenda and through their actions prove that they would like to see the Constitution largely rewritten or completely scrapped and, until that can happen, support judges modifying it via judicial rulings that go against bot the will of the people and the very document they are sworn to uphold, can be described as "patriotic Americans?"

 

To be patriotic, don't you actually have to support your country? To support your country, don't you actually have to believe in your system of government?

 

So, speaking of bent...

 

Oh, the left will actually believe in their system of government when it become socialist/communist, and then they will be screaming and whining the loudest if it actually came to pass...well, actually not, because they would then be thrown in prison or "eliminated".

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That_Guy

To be patriotic, don't you actually have to support your country? To support your country, don't you actually have to believe in your system of government?

 

Yes and yes - which is why General Lee, who raised his sword against his country instead of his secessionist state, doesn't fit the description of a patriotic American.

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That_Guy

It's not us liberals who want to tear America down and replace it with something unrecognizable to the founders & framers.

 

This again?

 

You aren't a "classical liberal" who believes in civil rights as well as freedom of the press, speech, and association; you're a right-wing tribalist who believes in Us vs. Them ("leftists" and Democrats)

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Rock N' Roll Right Winger

Yes and yes - which is why General Lee, who raised his sword against his country instead of his secessionist state, doesn't fit the description of a patriotic American.

Bullshidt.

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RedSoloCup

Bullshidt.

 

His m.o.

 

This again?

 

You aren't a "classical liberal" who believes in civil rights as well as freedom of the press, speech, and association; you're a right-wing tribalist who believes in Us vs. Them ("leftists" and Democrats)

 

:yawn:

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MontyPython

This again?

 

You aren't a "classical liberal" who believes in civil rights as well as freedom of the press, speech, and association; you're a right-wing tribalist who believes in Us vs. Them ("leftists" and Democrats)

 

LOLOLOL

 

Just as you've repeatedly proven you know exactly nothing about true patriotism, you have also repeatedly proven you know exactly nothing about true liberalism. Any pretense I'm a "right-wing tribalist" is well beyond mere "stupidity" and well into the realm of hilarious insanity.

 

:nuts:

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That_Guy

true liberalism

 

U8e38EI.gif

Edited by That_Guy

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That_Guy

I guess we're no longer discussing the issues surrounding the removal of this statue, which was erected by an organization (the United Daughters of the Confederacy) dedicated to the preservation and continuation of white supremacy in the south...

Edited by That_Guy

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Italian Biker

I guess we're no longer discussing the issues surrounding the removal of this statue, which was erected by an organization (the United Daughters of the Confederacy) dedicated to the preservation and continuation of white supremacy in the south...

Regardless of what you feel or agree with the removal of the statues, what these teachers are doing does nothing but harm and wrongs their students that never had or never will have anything to do with slavery or the civil war.

Also, slavery had nothing to do with white supremacy as you leftists are normally implying. Slavery as it was thousands and thousands of years ago was about economics. Whites were not the only one that held African based slaves. Africans enslaved other Africans. Native Americans enslaved other native Americans. Whites enslaved other whites long before they ever enslaved other races. Arabs, Asians, etc... Every race and almost every nation/empire/kingdom that existed roughly 150 years ago and before had slavery. Slavery still exists in some parts of the world, such as in Africa, by people of African origin, not European.

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MontyPython

U8e38EI.gif

 

Delude yourself to your heart's content, leftist. There isn't a leftist alive who understands true liberalism.

 

:rolleyes:

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Severian

Regardless of what you feel or agree with the removal of the statues, what these teachers are doing does nothing but harm and wrongs their students that never had or never will have anything to do with slavery or the civil war.

Also, slavery had nothing to do with white supremacy as you leftists are normally implying. Slavery as it was thousands and thousands of years ago was about economics. Whites were not the only one that held African based slaves. Africans enslaved other Africans. Native Americans enslaved other native Americans. Whites enslaved other whites long before they ever enslaved other races. Arabs, Asians, etc... Every race and almost every nation/empire/kingdom that existed roughly 150 years ago and before had slavery. Slavery still exists in some parts of the world, such as in Africa, by people of African origin, not European.

Ownership of slaves among the white population of the Southern states was about 5-8%, less than one in ten white Southerners owned slaves. The slave ownership rate among free blacks in the South was 25%, so white supremacy or racist crap is exactly that, crap.

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That_Guy

white supremacy or racist crap is exactly that, crap.

 

Not when it comes to the organization which sponsored this "Silent Sam," the United Daughters of the Confederacy, whose North Carolina president, Mrs. I.W. Fasion, told the UDC convention the year the statue wa dedicated:

 

The work of the United Daughters of the Confederacy is not based on sentiment alone, as the records of our work will show. Our main objects are memorial, historical, benevolent, educational and social. We are building monuments of bronze and marble to our noble Confederate dead as an inspiration to future generations. We have built and assisted in building all over the South, monuments in the form of Soldiers Homes, Hospitals, Memorial Halls and Schools for descendants of our Confederate soldiers, in whose veins flow pure Anglo Saxon blood, who otherwise could not be educated.

 

Mrs. Faison was also a member of Meckelnburg County's White Supremacy Club.

Edited by That_Guy

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Rock N' Roll Right Winger

I guess we're no longer discussing the issues surrounding the removal of this statue, which was erected by an organization (the United Daughters of the Confederacy) dedicated to the preservation and continuation of white supremacy in the south...

Yet another blatant bald faced lie.

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Magic Rat

It's true that a rich, minority aristocracy owned most of the slaves in Southern States. That's why the one of the biggest cons in American history was how these aristocrats managed to get the poor, non-slave owning majority to fight this war for them.

 

I don't agree with tearing down statues because it is an attempt to erase history. However, the idea that Lee was a patriotic American is a joke. He gave that up once he attacked his own country. There is nothing in the Constitution that says invading Pennsylvania is legal or Constitutional.

 

It is also bull <censored> that slavery was not a motivation for the Southern states (South Carolina, in particular.) to attack US forces on Fort Sumpter. The Southern economy was largely based on agriculture. Agriculture that required cheap labor to make these businesses successful. This cheap labor was enslaved human beings. In fact, during the war, any black Union soldier who was captured was sold back into slavery. While is can be argued that slavery wasn't the only motivation for the war, it was indeed a major factor that cannot be ignored.

 

The idea, that left alone, the North would want to harm the Southern economy for no reason other than abolishment of slavery is also hysterically paranoid.

 

There is evidence that Grant's wife at one time, inherited 4 slaves and freed them during the war. There is evidence that Grant himself owned one though. He chose not to fight against his own country though. Sherman, while a pretty vile racist before the war, never owned slaves.

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Magic Rat

This again?

 

You aren't a "classical liberal" who believes in civil rights as well as freedom of the press, speech, and association; you're a right-wing tribalist who believes in Us vs. Them ("leftists" and Democrats)

A lefty who accuses anyone else of being against civil rights, freedom of the press, speech and association is a lying hypocrite. Of course, I knew you are that anyway.

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Dean Adam Smithee

It's true that a rich, minority aristocracy owned most of the slaves in Southern States. That's why the one of the biggest cons in American history was how these aristocrats managed to get the poor, non-slave owning majority to fight this war for them.

 

I don't agree with tearing down statues because it is an attempt to erase history. However, the idea that Lee was a patriotic American is a joke. He gave that up once he attacked his own country. There is nothing in the Constitution that says invading Pennsylvania is legal or Constitutional.

 

It might not be in the constitution but it IS in the "Declaration of Independence".

 

"...That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security..."

 

Keep those words in mind. They might become useful again, even in OUR lifetimes.

 

It is also bull <censored> that slavery was not a motivation for the Southern states (South Carolina, in particular.) to attack US forces on Fort Sumpter. The Southern economy was largely based on agriculture. Agriculture that required cheap labor to make these businesses successful. This cheap labor was enslaved human beings. In fact, during the war, any black Union soldier who was captured was sold back into slavery. While is can be argued that slavery wasn't the only motivation for the war, it was indeed a major factor that cannot be ignored.

 

 

Agreed. Slavery was most definitely 'a' motivation; only a fool would argue otherwise. But it wasn't the only motivation and, at least in some states(YMMV), not necessarily the most important motivation. But, in many cases, it's what "sealed the deal"; It was something any ordinary citizen could understand.

 

WOULD we have had a civil war WITHOUT the question of Slavery? Well, we'll never know. My guess is "probably not". Or, maybe some longstanding grudges would have 'simmered' until something else became a flashpoint.

GA Declaration of Secession

 

The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our
non-slaveholding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.
They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic. This hostile policy of our confederates has been pursued with every circumstance of aggravation which could arouse the passions and excite the hatred of our people, and has placed the two sections of the Union for many years past in the condition of virtual civil war. Our people, still attached to the Union from habit and national traditions, and averse to change, hoped that time, reason, and argument would bring, if not redress, at least exemption from further insults, [yada, yada, yada].

FL Declaration of Causes

 

The people of the State of Florida assembled in Convention having declared the separation of the state from the confederacy of the United States of America and resumed all the powers granted to the Government of that Confederacy, it is due to ourselves to our – late – confederates and to the civilized world that we should set forth the causes which have forced us to adopt this extreme measure fraught as it is with consequences the most momentous. We have not acted in haste or in passion but with the utmost deliberation and from what we regard as immeasurable necessity.

 

An incursion has been instigated and actually perpetuated into a sister State the inevitable consequences of which were murder rapine and crimes even more horrible. The felon chief of that murderous band has been canonized as a heroic martyr by public meetings by the press and pulpit of all of the Northern States – others of the party have been demanded by the Governor of the State they invaded and their surrender refused by the Governors of two States of the Confederacy, demanded not as fugitives from service but as fugitives from justice charged with treason and murder.

 

Laws clearly constitutional and as decided to be by the Federal Judiciary as well as by the Courts of all the non slaveholding States where the question has been presented for adjudication have been by counter legislation rendered inoperative, laws without the power to pass which none will deny that the Constitution would not have been adopted.

 

The nullification of these laws by the Legislatures of two thirds of the non slaveholding States important as it is in itself is additionally as is furnishing evidence of an open disregard of constitutional obligation, and of the rights and interests of the slaveholding States and of a deep and inveterate hostility to the people of these States...

 

Sucks that both of my adopted states specifically MADE "Slavery" a part of it. It is what it is, no matter how much I dearly WANT it to be about merely "States Rights"

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Magic Rat

It might not be in the constitution but it IS in the "Declaration of Independence".

 

"...That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security..."

 

Keep those words in mind. They might become useful again, even in OUR lifetimes.

 

[/b]

 

 

Agreed. Slavery was most definitely 'a' motivation; only a fool would argue otherwise. But it wasn't the only motivation and, at least in some states(YMMV), not necessarily the most important motivation. But, in many cases, it's what "sealed the deal"; It was something any ordinary citizen could understand.

 

WOULD we have had a civil war WITHOUT the question of Slavery? Well, we'll never know. My guess is "probably not". Or, maybe some longstanding grudges would have 'simmered' until something else became a flashpoint.

 

 

Sucks that both of my adopted states specifically MADE "Slavery" a part of it. It is what it is, no matter how much I dearly WANT it to be about merely "States Rights"

 

It couldn't have been about 'states' rights' because states don't have rights. Individuals do. States have responsibilities and obligations to protect and defend individuals' rights. In this cases, one of those rights was the right to own other human beings.

 

I'm not being smug. People make mistakes and sometimes ignore evil and fool themselves into believing they are on the righteous side of things. They can especially talk themselves into accepting evil when their lifestyle or financial comfort is threatened. Look at those who might be otherwise good people support the killing of babies. It's easy to convince yourself that what you support isn't evil but necessary. However, there is no excuse to ignore the fact that due to stupid political decisions and compromises over this subject, things were going to come to a head eventually, and it is undeniable that point of contention was slavery.

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ASE

I don't see why punishing the kids, by holding thier grades hostage, has anything to do with this statue.

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