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NYC Workers Aren’t Jazzed About the $15 Minimum Wage

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Natural Selection

I happen to deal with hiring here in NYC - at this point it’s tough to get entry level workers at ABOVE minimum wage.

 

Have you tried looking in AOC's district? Apparently, her constituents weren't qualified for the Amazon jobs and would have been forced out by the rent increases. I find it hard to believe that you don't have a large supply of unskilled labor in New York.

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Natural Selection

Why not Obama?

 

Shall we go to the job growth and unemployment graphs?

 

Obama was propped up with $4,000,000,000,000 of quantitative easing money created on the Fed's computer, along with almost zero interest rates. Obama's policies and programs (cash for clunkers? :rofl: ) don't work without the Fed propping him up.

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zurg

Here, Anton, here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about: According to someone who knows how to manipulate algebra, 1=2:

 

https://www.education.com/activity/article/Algebra_Sleuth_Proof_that_1_2/

 

Of course, 1 obviously doesn't equal 2, but if you manipulate the figures, and don't take into consideration who's doing the manipulating, many people can be fooled.

 

Just as you've been fooled.

 

B)

And Anton does that analogous step where they divide by zero all the time.

 

For example, when he brings up employment under Obama, he’s always ONLY talking about jobs added. He doesn’t talk about jobs lost. When added-lost is the metric that matters.

 

And when called on it, he doubles down and gives a Star Trek facepalm like that’s gonna somehow refute it.

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MontyPython

And Anton does that analogous step where they divide by zero all the time.

 

For example, when he brings up employment under Obama, he’s always ONLY talking about jobs added. He doesn’t talk about jobs lost. When added-lost is the metric that matters.

 

And when called on it, he doubles down and gives a Star Trek facepalm like that’s gonna somehow refute it.

 

Exactly.

 

:yes:

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Hieronymous

Some labor unions get automatic wage increases when minimum wage goes up. They negotiate that their hourly has to be x amount higher than the minimum wage.

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Natural Selection

I happen to deal with hiring here in NYC - at this point it’s tough to get entry level workers at ABOVE minimum wage.

 

If that's the case, then there's no need for a $15 minimum wage. The free-market law of supply and demand would force employers to offer more than $15 in order to attract employees. That's the beauty of capitalism. Employers must offer enough compensation to attract the help they need. Wages are self-regulating.

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AntonToo

Here, Anton, here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about: According to someone who knows how to manipulate algebra, 1=2:

 

https://www.education.com/activity/article/Algebra_Sleuth_Proof_that_1_2/

 

Of course, 1 obviously doesn't equal 2, but if you manipulate the figures, and don't take into consideration who's doing the manipulating, many people can be fooled.

 

Just as you've been fooled.

 

B)

 

Here, Anton, here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about: According to someone who knows how to manipulate algebra, 1=2:

 

https://www.education.com/activity/article/Algebra_Sleuth_Proof_that_1_2/

 

Of course, 1 obviously doesn't equal 2, but if you manipulate the figures, and don't take into consideration who's doing the manipulating, many people can be fooled.

 

Just as you've been fooled.

 

B)

 

giphy.gif

 

...so two quesitons:

 

1. Why can't pro-Trumpsters produce a graph of job growth and unemployment?

 

2. Did you report the grand conspiracy for Obama and against Trump by the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics? Because I'm pretty sure you are the first to discover it.

 

 

If that's the case, then there's no need for a $15 minimum wage. The free-market law of supply and demand would force employers to offer more than $15 in order to attract employees.

 

That is the case and I also agree that 15 is excessive and there is no need for $15 minimum wage. HOWEVER, one does not flow from the other because without minimum wage there would still be some people accepting a lower pay than what they could potentially leverage.

Edited by AntonToo

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Natural Selection
without minimum wage there would still be some people accepting a lower pay than what they could potentially leverage.

 

So you believe the government should step in and interfere in a wage offer that was accepted and agreed upon by both parties?

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MontyPython

giphy.gif

 

...so two quesitons:

 

1. Why can't pro-Trumpsters produce a graph of job growth and unemployment?

 

2. Did you report the grand conspiracy for Obama and against Trump by the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics? Because I'm pretty sure you are the first to discover it.

 

LOL. That's the perfect picture, but not for the reason you thought. It's perfect because AS USUAL the point has sailed right over your pointed little head. MY whole point was about how easy it is for people to manipulate statistics, charts, graphs, etc, and how do you respond? By asking for graphs and comments about statistics! LOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

Look, I'm not the one you should be arguing with anyway. Why not address Natural Selection's point in post #52 about quantitive easing?

 

Or Zurg's point in post #53 about the jobs added AND jobs lost metric?

 

Or Hieronymous' point in post #55 about how unions benefit from raising min wage even though they're already making far more than min wage?

 

Or any of several other great points you've dodged throughout all these threads? C'mon, man up for once and address the real facts, instead of being led around by the nose by your irrational Trump-hatred.

 

B)

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erp

Some labor unions get automatic wage increases when minimum wage goes up. They negotiate that their hourly has to be x amount higher than the minimum wage.

Bingo!! And there is the real reason democrats want this.

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zurg

giphy.gif

 

...so two quesitons:

 

1. Why can't pro-Trumpsters produce a graph of job growth and unemployment?

 

2. Did you report the grand conspiracy for Obama and against Trump by the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics? Because I'm pretty sure you are the first to discover it.

 

 

 

 

That is the case and I also agree that 15 is excessive and there is no need for $15 minimum wage. HOWEVER, one does not flow from the other because without minimum wage there would still be some people accepting a lower pay than what they could potentially leverage.

Ummmm..... speaking of the experts with their data and stuff, are you going to check out http://www.rightnation.us/forums/index.php?showtopic=221652&pid=685572753&st=0entry685572753

Edited by zurg

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AntonToo

LOL. That's the perfect picture, but not for the reason you thought. It's perfect because AS USUAL the point has sailed right over your pointed little head. MY whole point was about how easy it is for people to manipulate statistics, charts, graphs, etc, and how do you respond? By asking for graphs and comments about statistics! LOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

Look, I'm not the one you should be arguing with anyway.

 

 

Oh I get the point, it's just that your point is pure horse<censored> sir.

 

You don't like data and so you simply put up half-baked excuses about it being somehow manimpulated.

 

You can't conherently explain HOW it was manipulated. You can't post ANY alteranative data, but you are SURE that this employment data from BLS just can't be true.

 

 

But it is IN FACT true that jobs are not growing faster with Trump in office, so maybe you should just find some sane way to deal with it.

 

jobs-2-19-good-01.png

 

 

And just in case you don't udnerstand what you are looking at - these is NET monthly job growth in United States. Meaning it fully reflects both the jobs lost and gained (contrary to bs Zurg tries to spin)

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MontyPython

Cool picture, Anton. Now how about addressing those who are actually arguing with you? You know, unions, quantitive easing, etc?

 

Me, I'm just reading along from the sidelines. And I think you know that, and that's why you're zeroing in on me, LOL, instead of those who actually give a sh*t.

 

B)

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JerryL

 

 

That is the case and I also agree that 15 is excessive and there is no need for $15 minimum wage. HOWEVER, one does not flow from the other because without minimum wage there would still be some people accepting a lower pay than what they could potentially leverage.

 

What business is that of yours or your nanny-state? If a person voluntarily enters into an employment contract where they are willing to trade labor for an agreed upon set price, who are you to stick your big fat nose into it whether they "could potentially leverage" more or not?

 

What your statement boils down to is "...without minimum wage we couldn't force employers to pay more than a set of labor (at a certain skill level) is worth."

Edited by JerryL

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RedSoloCup

Oh I get the point, it's just that your point is pure horse<censored> sir.

 

You don't like data and so you simply put up half-baked excuses about it being somehow manimpulated.

 

You can't conherently explain HOW it was manipulated. You can't post ANY alteranative data, but you are SURE that this employment data from BLS just can't be true.

 

 

But it is IN FACT true that jobs are not growing faster with Trump in office, so maybe you should just find some sane way to deal with it.

 

jobs-2-19-good-01.png

 

 

And just in case you don't udnerstand what you are looking at - these is NET monthly job growth in United States. Meaning it fully reflects both the jobs lost and gained (contrary to bs Zurg tries to spin)

 

:yawn:

 

Tell us another whopper, Ocasio Cortez.

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Natural Selection

Cool picture, Anton. Now how about addressing those who are actually arguing with you? You know, unions, quantitive easing, etc?

 

Leftists lie by omission and Anton has decided to omit those pesky details from his "argument". You won't hear about it on NPR/CNN/MSNBC either.

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zurg

Oh I get the point, it's just that your point is pure horse<censored> sir.

 

You don't like data and so you simply put up half-baked excuses about it being somehow manimpulated.

 

You can't conherently explain HOW it was manipulated. You can't post ANY alteranative data, but you are SURE that this employment data from BLS just can't be true.

 

 

But it is IN FACT true that jobs are not growing faster with Trump in office, so maybe you should just find some sane way to deal with it.

 

jobs-2-19-good-01.png

 

 

And just in case you don't udnerstand what you are looking at - these is NET monthly job growth in United States. Meaning it fully reflects both the jobs lost and gained (contrary to bs Zurg tries to spin)

When you talk about adding jobs, which is a harder challenge: adding jobs when there’s lots of unemployment versus when we’re near full employment? Each has its own issues but clearly adding a NET more jobs near full employment is much more difficult.

 

Also, I knew you’d skip over the January job report (304,000 versus 165,000 expected) and focus on the February one (20,000). Yet EVEN NPR said last week that the 20,000 will likely be revised up to 70,000, and is not a big deal. Amazingly, even NPR is saying that this economy is doing great. Even they have stopped complaining about the tariffs and see the wisdom in getting China under control.

 

And you? Zero sense. All partisan yapping, like a little chihuahua.

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zurg

What business is that of yours or your nanny-state? If a person voluntarily enters into an employment contract where they are willing to trade labor for an agreed upon set price, who are you to stick your big fat nose into it whether they "could potentially leverage" more or not?

 

What your statement boils down to is "...without minimum wage we couldn't force employers to pay more than a set of labor (at a certain skill level) is worth."

If the government starts fixing wages, why not prices too? Why have a free market at all. Have the Antons of the world tell us little people what to think.

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JerryL

If the government starts fixing wages, why not prices too? Why have a free market at all. Have the Antons of the world tell us little people what to think.

God forbid.

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AntonToo

What business is that of yours or your nanny-state? If a person voluntarily enters into an employment contract where they are willing to trade labor for an agreed upon set price, who are you to stick your big fat nose into it whether they "could potentially leverage" more or not?

 

...is this a serious comment?

 

Were you born yesterday? If not you may have noticed that We The People have long ago decided that we will have certain labor laws inforced by our government.

 

 

We have government making sure that people do no enter into slavery contracts and we make sure people are minimally compensated for their labor through minimum wage laws.

 

 

 

Don't want government regulating labor? Ok go ahead and win some elections running on that. Good luck.

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RedSoloCup

...is this a serious comment?

 

Were you born yesterday? If not you may have noticed that We The People have long ago decided that we will have certain labor laws inforced by our government.

 

 

We have government making sure that people do no enter into slavery contracts and we make sure people are minimally compensated for their labor through minimum wage laws.

 

 

 

Don't want government regulating labor? Ok go ahead and win some elections running on that. Good luck.

 

:biglaugh:

 

pissinginthewind.gif

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Natural Selection
We have government making sure that people do no enter into slavery contracts

 

If they enter into the contract voluntarily it's not slavery.

 

Don't want government regulating labor?

 

We didn't say "labor". We said "wages". "Labor" covers a whole range of issues including safety.

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stick

Why not Obama?

 

Shall we go to the job growth and unemployment graphs?

 

Shall we count all of the Quantitative Easing dollars propping the 0-bamaeconomy up all those years?

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erp

...is this a serious comment?

 

Were you born yesterday? If not you may have noticed that We The People have long ago decided that we will have certain labor laws inforced by our government.

 

 

We have government making sure that people do no enter into slavery contracts and we make sure people are minimally compensated for their labor through minimum wage laws.

 

 

 

Don't want government regulating labor? Ok go ahead and win some elections running on that. Good luck.

What a mind numbing idiotic post.

 

And guess what, we did win some elections that scaled back government over reach. Can you say Presidnet Trump? CFPB ring a bell?

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MontyPython

...is this a serious comment?

 

Were you born yesterday? If not you may have noticed that We The People have long ago decided that we will have certain labor laws inforced by our government.

 

 

We have government making sure that people do no enter into slavery contracts and we make sure people are minimally compensated for their labor through minimum wage laws.

 

 

 

Don't want government regulating labor? Ok go ahead and win some elections running on that. Good luck.

 

Spoken like a true communist, kamerade.

 

<_<

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