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pepperonikkid

Trump Fires Ambassador Gordon Sondland

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Howsithangin

If RN is to go by, nearly. RN is turning fanboy in comparison to how most here felt about Trump at the start of 2016.

 

 

 

Even Colin Powell is getting chucked under the bus.

 

chucked under? No, he very willingly crawled under that bus/rock when he turn-coated and very enthusiastically supported Barry*.

 

 

*Apparently skin color is more important to some than morals and ethics.

Edited by Howsithangin

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Rock N' Roll Right Winger

I am making a clear point about what could be seen as hypocrisy when the miscreant is 'one of us'. The same people spewing hate against Vindman (which I fully understand) are the same people who lionise the like of Ollie. A man who also disgraced the uniform. Except he happens to be one of us, so he gets a pass. In fact is still hailed by millions as some sort of hero.

 

Wow. You really stepped in your own mess there, hypocrite.

Ollie is a decorated Vietnam war veteran that you've just attacked. He served in the military in battle so under your standards he's above all doubt and criticism? Keyboard warrior?

Edited by Rock N' Roll Right Winger

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Rock N' Roll Right Winger

If RN is to go by, nearly. RN is turning fanboy in comparison to how most here felt about Trump at the start of 2016.

 

 

 

Even Colin Powell is getting chucked under the bus.

What a load of crap.

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Rock N' Roll Right Winger

This is what you come back with?

 

I was on active duty as US Naval Officer when his whole scandal hit the fan. I remember thinking "What an idiot!" He was my first in a significant number of officers who made me wonder just WTF happens to certain people when they make O-5 (Commander/Lieutenant Colonel)?

 

Vindman and North have one very important thing in common. They were both seconded to the National Security Council as staff officers and both had important sounding titles.

 

Here is what the NSC is supposed to do:

 

"Since its inception under President Truman, the Council's function has been to advise and assist the President on national security and foreign policies. The Council also serves as the President's principal arm for coordinating these policies among various government agencies. The NSC is chaired by the President."

My link

 

If any of the defenders of either Vindman or North, although I have no idea what he has to do with this other than a nearly 40 year old "what about," care to show me where it is the job of a staff officer on the NSC to make or interpret policy or to advise or negotiate with foreign governments, I would be very interested to see it.

 

Bottom line is that Vindman jumped his CoC because he KNEW his CoC didn't trust him, and with good reason. He leaked protected information. It is more than likely that he is the source of the information that the "whistle blower" who, if you remember, had NO first hand information of his own. He advised a foreign leader on how to deal with US policy that he, Vindman, disagreed with. He testified that he felt he had to do this because the President...WHO SETS FOREIGN POLICY...wasn't sticking to the talking points that a mid career staff officer prepared.

 

Vindman is a disgrace to the uniform and he violated his commissioning oath and betrayed his service and his chain of command. His purple heart is for an injury from a roadside bomb, not from direct action with the enemy. He has no personal valor awards and has done nothing to distinguish himself from thousands of other officers who have served honorably...except for betraying his oath.

 

His service up to his betrayal gets no pass from me.

 

And in case you didn't get it, I feel the same way about North.

Ollie North also pulled some subversive crap with his job in the NRA. He tried to have Wayne LaPierre ousted and was also blackmailing him.

 

Ollie was forced to resign his NRA position after he was caught when LaPierre went public with what Ollie was doing. Ollie was also getting kickbacks from a TV video production PR firm that was producing all of their TV shows.

 

Ollie is a crook.

Edited by Rock N' Roll Right Winger

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Rock N' Roll Right Winger

Really. Some people who were skeptical about a man who subsequently proves to be more than capable of doing the job and who racks up a long list of fulfilled campaign promises and achievements now gladly support him. Mind boggling, isn't it?

 

 

 

Colin Powell was a political animal and has been since he first put on stars. I lost most of my respect for him when he agreed to go before the UN with the weak crap that GWB sent him in there with.

:yeahthat:

Powell also came out and endorsed Obama, democraps and also revealed his racist true colors.

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Rock N' Roll Right Winger

Except you are making a generalization that doesn't hold water to cover for your support, or "holding back on hatred," of a serving military officer betraying his oath.

:exactly:

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JerryL

Ollie North also pulled some subversive crap with his job in the NRA. He tried to have Wayne LaPierre ousted and was also blackmailing him.

 

Ollie was forced to resign his NRA position after he was caught when LaPierre went public with what Ollie was doing and Ollie was getting kickbacks from a TV video production and PR firm that was producing all of their TV shows.

Wait, does that make 3 people already who don't jump to the defense of Ollie North simply because he "was one of ours?" How can that be? :sarcasm:

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JerryL

:yeahthat:

Powell also came out and endorsed Obama, democraps and also revealed his racist true colors.

Personally, while I did find it disappointing, his endorsement of Obama surprised me not at all. Powell was never a conservative to begin with, IMO, but then neither was GWB.

 

I honestly don't think he is a racist, though. JMO.

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Ticked@TinselTown

If RN is to go by, nearly. RN is turning fanboy in comparison to how most here felt about Trump at the start of 2016.

 

 

 

Even Colin Powell is getting chucked under the bus.

 

The only thing you were right about in all of your posts is that you're a 'furner'.

 

And I am still baffled why you continue to post here when it's clear you're not a fan of most anything American, regardless of your protestations to the contrary.

 

Oh, wait, you like some American cinema...

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Squirrel

Except if your name is Ollie North. Then its a-ok, cos he's 'one of us'. Hell, he's a damn hero. An all-American boy.

The fact that he subverted a congressional act, lied to and misled congress, accepted illegal monies, destroyed govt documents.....well, erm, well.....

Well you pulled that out your butt I for one dislike north also and I am unaware of anyone here defending him. I haven’t been on this site that long so maybe you can link to a past thread that happened. I definitely haven’t seen it come up in this one.

Edited by Squirrel

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NH Populist

Except if your name is Ollie North. Then its a-ok, cos he's 'one of us'. Hell, he's a damn hero. An all-American boy.

The fact that he subverted a congressional act, lied to and misled congress, accepted illegal monies, destroyed govt documents.....well, erm, well.....

By your analysis then, this guy, Nidal Hasan a major who shot up a military base killing 13 people and injuring more than 30, still deserves respect for time served?!

Edited by NH Populist

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Mrdirt73

By your analysis then, this guy, Nidal Hasan a major who shot up a military base killing 13 people and injuring more than 30, still deserves respect for time served?!

Don't forget to show respect for McVeigh too I guess.

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JerryL

Don't forget to show respect for McVeigh too I guess.

Well, he was honorably discharged after his enlistment so he served honorably. And here I thought he was just a racist, murdering, scumbag.

 

Sorry, Tim. (Just in case: :sarcasm: )

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Dutch13
The hatred for their politics or crimes your side believes they have committed does not diminish service of Vindman, McCain, or anyone else. But once again, the posts I commented on were about Rep. Duckworth's time in Iraq.

 

This is a pretty simple concept. God Bless her for her military service. Since then, she has made some pretty horrendous choices in congress.

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oki

O, I get it know... it's far worse to fire an Ambassador over poor job performance or even politics then it is to send in help and let an Ambassador get murdered by nutcase Islamist's who was begging for extra security.

Can't believe the left didn't explain this to us earlier.

Edited by oki

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Dutch13
Except if your name is Ollie North. Then its a-ok, cos he's 'one of us'. Hell, he's a damn hero. An all-American boy. The fact that he subverted a congressional act, lied to and misled congress, accepted illegal monies, destroyed govt documents.....well, erm, well.....

 

I would not throw all of these veterans in the same category.

 

A person's mistakes do not define them for life (at least, they should not). Oliver North was a decorated Marine. Oliver North broke the law, was convicted, and he paid a price. Later, he became a journalist, became a war correspondent, and was a President of the NRA. He fell from his lofty perch in the military, but he built himself back up for the benefit of himself and his fellow citizens. I would say that he redeemed himself.

 

Tammy Duckworth is still a soldier......she still does exactly as she is told by her superiors in the democrat party. She continues to make choices that are detrimental to the country as a whole. Hopefully, she will change.

 

John McCain was a vengeful man. He and Donald Trump could have chosen to drop their petty bickering.....but they didn't and we are still saddled with Obmaacare. John McCain chose vengeance on Donald Trump over what was good for the American People. As I said, a person's mistakes should not define them.....but McCain's last choice was to be vindictive against his political enemy....at the expense of his constituents and the American People.

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JerryL

I would not throw all of these veterans in the same category.

 

A person's mistakes do not define them for life (at least, they should not). Oliver North was a decorated Marine. Oliver North broke the law, was convicted, and he paid a price. Later, he became a journalist, became a war correspondent, and was a President of the NRA. He fell from his lofty perch in the military, but he built himself back up for the benefit of himself and his fellow citizens. I would say that he redeemed himself.

 

Tammy Duckworth is still a soldier......she still does exactly as she is told by her superiors in the democrat party. She continues to make choices that are detrimental to the country as a whole. Hopefully, she will change.

 

John McCain was a vengeful man. He and Donald Trump could have chosen to drop their petty bickering.....but they didn't and we are still saddled with Obmaacare. John McCain chose vengeance on Donald Trump over what was good for the American People. As I said, a person's mistakes should not define them.....but McCain's last choice was to be vindictive against his political enemy....at the expense of his constituents and the American People.

All very diplomatic and even handed, however...

 

The topics of this thread didn't "make mistakes."

 

Sondland chose to "perceive" some form of quid pro quo between DJT, the foreign assistance, and the Ukraine. He chose to manufacture it out of whole cloth based on what he believed was in the President's mind. He then chose to tell that to about anyone who would listen. When he finally go the stones to ask the President and was told that "I want nothing. No quid pro quo. Tell Zelensky to do the right thing." then chose to stick to his unsupported suspicions when testifying to Congress. He looked like a moron having to admit that "no one on Earth told you" that DJT was holding the aid ransom for investigations. He wasn't man enough to just say that he believed some thing that was not true, told other people his belief, and then was told he was wrong. Couldn't do it. Now, he is fired.

 

Vindman decided that his "talking points" WERE US policy and the President wasn't implementing US policy to his satisfaction so he CHOSE to leak, he chose to go outside of his CoC to report it, he chose to betray his oath.

 

They aren't defined by their mistakes. They are defined by their choices and the actions they took based on those choices.

Edited by JerryL

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That_Guy

All very diplomatic and even handed, however...

 

The topics of this thread didn't "make mistakes."

 

Sondland chose to "perceive" some form of quid pro quo between DJT, the foreign assistance, and the Ukraine. He chose to manufacture it out of whole cloth based on what he believed was in the President's mind. He then chose to tell that to about anyone who would listen. When he finally go the stones to ask the President and was told that "I want nothing. No quid pro quo. Tell Zelensky to do the right thing." then chose to stick to his unsupported suspicions when testifying to Congress. He looked like a moron having to admit that "no one on Earth told you" that DJT was holding the aid ransom for investigations. He wasn't man enough to just say that he believed some thing that was not true, told other people his belief, and then was told he was wrong. Couldn't do it. Now, he is fired.

 

One would have to be childishly gullible to believe the bolded.

 

All indications from everyone involved was that the release of the security aid and the scheduling of a White House visit were being conditioned (by Trump himself) on the announcement by Zelensky of an investigation into the Biden family.

 

Vindman decided that his "talking points" WERE US policy and the President wasn't implementing US policy to his satisfaction

 

Almost.

 

Trump was clearly not implementing US policy (aka faithfully executing the Office of the President) by withholding security aid.

 

so he CHOSE to leak, he chose to go outside of his CoC to report it, he chose to betray his oath.

 

According to what source?

Edited by That_Guy

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Dutch13

Going back to the original root of this thread........who wanted Sondland to remain in his position? It seemed like all the folks at the Ukrainian Embassy thought he was terrible for the job.

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MontyPython

One would have to be childishly gullible to believe the bolded.

 

All indications from everyone involved was that the release of the security aid and the scheduling of a White House visit were being conditioned (by Trump himself) on the announcement by Zelensky of an investigation into the Biden family.

 

Only the childishly gullible could believe such nonsense.

 

The condition (which, by the way, DIDN'T actually "delay" the aid beyond the allotted period) was an investigation into the CORRUPTION represented by BURISMA; It was just the Bidens' hard luck that it turned out they were a significant part of that corruption.

 

But objective people already knew that, and honest people long ago acknowledged it.

 

Unfortunately you've never been either objective nor honest.

 

<_<

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JerryL

Only the childishly gullible could believe such nonsense.

 

The condition (which, by the way, DIDN'T actually "delay" the aid beyond the allotted period) was an investigation into the CORRUPTION represented by BURISMA; It was just the Bidens' hard luck that it turned out they were a significant part of that corruption.

 

But objective people already knew that, and honest people long ago acknowledged it.

 

Unfortunately you've never been either objective nor honest.

 

<_<

All of the indications from everyone except NONE of them heard it from Trump. Sondland made it up. Vindman butthurt it, but Trump never did it.

 

He’s an idiot, That_Guy.

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MontyPython

All of the indications from everyone except NONE of them heard it from Trump. Sondland made it up. Vindman butthurt it, but Trump never did it.

 

He’s an idiot, That_Guy.

 

:2up:

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That_Guy

Then they don’t confirm and all you have is accusations without evidence, therefore meaningless.

 

FYI — There is lots and lots of evidence.

 

Trump’s defenders (like my buddies Jerry and Monty) are bitterly clinging to the idea that evidence directly from Trump is required in order to demonstrate his culpability.

Edited by That_Guy

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