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MTP Reggie

Trump says he’s fixing coronavirus testing issues

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RedSoloCup

giphy.gif

 

Yes Eric, watching this latest TrumpTantrum and its eventual backfire is very entertaining.

 

 

:rolleyes:

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RedSoloCup

Pretty lame phony outrage this time, LB.

 

 

Par the course.

 

It reminds me of when Trump wouldn't allow the Diamond Princess to dock because "I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship" –– as though those numbers didn't correspond to human beings in need of medical care.

 

:rolleyes:

 

I love it when abortionists pretend to care about human life. It is sooooo cute.

 

What makes it even funnier is that the vast majority of the people on the cruise were, in all likelihood, white. TG doesn't give a <censored> about white people.

 

:exactly:

 

Like they couldn't get anymore phony.

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zurg
Posted (edited)

I’m watching the press conference right now. Trump is saying, a lot of people were putting pressure on him and his team, asking why not just ride this out, it’s just like the flu. Trump said, it’s not like the flu. People start feeling ill and next thing you know they’re intubated. It’s NOT like the flu. Looks like Trump saw this early and stuck by his experts and stuck to his guns. No question.

Edited by zurg

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Buckwheat Jones

Trump himself compared his daily briefings to a reality show. He said it.

 

And that's what they are.. Of course it was bragging. His little cultists love this crap.

What steps has he taken that are good in your opinion?

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RedSoloCup

Trump himself compared his daily briefings to a reality show. He said it.

 

And that's what they are.. Of course it was bragging. His little cultists love this crap.

 

:dramaqueen:

 

That's rich...

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MontyPython

Trump himself compared his daily briefings to a reality show. He said it.

 

And that's what they are.. Of course it was bragging. His little cultists love this crap.

 

 

:dramaqueen:

 

That's rich...

 

Rich indeed. Anybody in the Hate-Trump camp calling anybody else "cultists" is the very pinnacle of ironic hypocrisy. They just don't come any more brainwashed than the anti-Trumpers.

 

B)

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JerryL

Imagine how much better your life would be for you and those around you if you would just give up the hate. I made it through 8 years of Obama, who did EVERYTHING in spades that you accuse Trump of doing (lies, overstepping his office, thinking he is above the Constitution and the law...), although admittedly he did it more eloquently, and I never obsessed over him the way you obsess over Trump.

 

He has a max of 5 years left as president. I am worried that you won't survive them. Take a step back, a deep breath, and admit to yourself that DJT is not trying to destroy your life or your family. You disagree with him on policy. Big deal. No reason to have an aneurysm.

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zurg

Imagine how much better your life would be for you and those around you if you would just give up the hate. I made it through 8 years of Obama, who did EVERYTHING in spades that you accuse Trump of doing (lies, overstepping his office, thinking he is above the Constitution and the law...), although admittedly he did it more eloquently, and I never obsessed over him the way you obsess over Trump.

 

He has a max of 5 years left as president. I am worried that you won't survive them. Take a step back, a deep breath, and admit to yourself that DJT is not trying to destroy your life or your family. You disagree with him on policy. Big deal. No reason to have an aneurysm.

Good luck. I’ve tried that routine a couple of times, got ignored and blamed.

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RedSoloCup

Rich indeed. Anybody in the Hate-Trump camp calling anybody else "cultists" is the very pinnacle of ironic hypocrisy. They just don't come any more brainwashed than the anti-Trumpers.

 

B)

 

:exactly:

 

Imagine how much better your life would be for you and those around you if you would just give up the hate. I made it through 8 years of Obama, who did EVERYTHING in spades that you accuse Trump of doing (lies, overstepping his office, thinking he is above the Constitution and the law...), although admittedly he did it more eloquently, and I never obsessed over him the way you obsess over Trump.

 

He has a max of 5 years left as president. I am worried that you won't survive them. Take a step back, a deep breath, and admit to yourself that DJT is not trying to destroy your life or your family. You disagree with him on policy. Big deal. No reason to have an aneurysm.

 

:yes:

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RedSoloCup

 

Howeird Stern is still on? Who knew?

 

He should stick to his specialty, strippers and drunken midgets.

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Ladybird

What steps has he taken that are good in your opinion?

 

He's giving the straight dope now, so that's a good thing.

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Ladybird

Imagine how much better your life would be for you and those around you if you would just give up the hate. I made it through 8 years of Obama, who did EVERYTHING in spades that you accuse Trump of doing (lies, overstepping his office, thinking he is above the Constitution and the law...), although admittedly he did it more eloquently, and I never obsessed over him the way you obsess over Trump.

 

He has a max of 5 years left as president. I am worried that you won't survive them. Take a step back, a deep breath, and admit to yourself that DJT is not trying to destroy your life or your family. You disagree with him on policy. Big deal. No reason to have an aneurysm.

 

Making me the focus of the discussion, because you have no defense of the indefensible?

 

I'll be fine..

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zurg

Told ya.

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MontyPython

Making me the focus of the discussion, because you have no defense of the indefensible?

 

I'll be fine..

 

"Indefensible"?

 

Oh brother. Just like the guy in Princess Bride it's clear that word doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

:rolleyes:

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Timothy

Yes, but "significantly more likely" is not hard to achieve when the starting point is near zero.

 

 

And the RO for the flu is the only factual point as the RO for covid19 hasn't been figured out yet, and that's the important part. Those articles didn't establish that covid19 is more contagious than the flu.

 

 

I'm not ignoring it, but as you haven't established any sort of base line number of people that started with the flu and how long it would take for the same number of people to have covid19, how do you expect me to address it?

 

 

You cannot assert that just because we have done more testing and as a result find more people who have it that that means 700% growth in a week!

 

According to experts, the virus was here at least a month earlier than the known first case and has been spreading ever since. As you have already discovered, the RO for covid19 has not been established yet.

 

It may have a higher RO than the flu, but that remains to be determined. It also may NOT be more contagious than the flu.

 

 

And yet 31 million Americans were still infected over 13 weeks. In that same time frame, we know of 164k covid19 cases in the US, which probably means there are at least 1.64 million people that are actually infected.

 

Of those 1.64 million, 3177 have died which gives us a current mortality rate of 0.19%. Over the last week, the mortality rate has been trending up and not down which is concerning if the trend doesn't reverse.

I feel like we've reached the point where we are mostly just repeating the same or similar things back at each other. We really reached that point a while ago, but the conversation keeps going because both of us like to debate and it's tough for our egos to not respond. I've got other things I need to do so I'm going to call it quits to the point by point back and forth. It's been a civil and worthwhile conversation, don't get me wrong, and I appreciate it! It has just hit the point of yielding diminishing returns.

 

I will say one final general thought, you can respond or not as respond as you like. My thoughts on this issue are not based on any kind of certainty about the nature of the virus or what will happen. Any "facts" about it are best guesses based on incomplete data, and involve a range of "likely" vs "unlikely" outcomes. A big part of the reason why I believe it's worth the very high cost to shut down most social interaction in the short term is that it gives us time to nail down some of those variables. To get a better picture of how dangerous the virus actually is (or isn't). To learn more about how it spreads and what measures are most efficient and cost effective at containing and preventing it. To find treatments and ways to more efficiently and effectively care for the people who catch it.

 

My hope is we'll learn things in the next few weeks that will allow us to open the economy AND be reasonably certain that we can keep the coronavirus under control. If we don't, if the virus proves to confirm many of our worst fears that the virus is very deadly and hard to contain, and the remedies that show promise today don't end up working out or being enough, we can have a more serious and sober conversation about what to do mid and long term. There are too many uncertainties and unknowns to predict with confidence that things will either get a lot better or get a lot worse.

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ThePatriot

I feel like we've reached the point where we are mostly just repeating the same or similar things back at each other. We really reached that point a while ago, but the conversation keeps going because both of us like to debate and it's tough for our egos to not respond. I've got other things I need to do so I'm going to call it quits to the point by point back and forth. It's been a civil and worthwhile conversation, don't get me wrong, and I appreciate it! It has just hit the point of yielding diminishing returns.

 

I will say one final general thought, you can respond or not as respond as you like. My thoughts on this issue are not based on any kind of certainty about the nature of the virus or what will happen. Any "facts" about it are best guesses based on incomplete data, and involve a range of "likely" vs "unlikely" outcomes. A big part of the reason why I believe it's worth the very high cost to shut down most social interaction in the short term is that it gives us time to nail down some of those variables. To get a better picture of how dangerous the virus actually is (or isn't). To learn more about how it spreads and what measures are most efficient and cost effective at containing and preventing it. To find treatments and ways to more efficiently and effectively care for the people who catch it.

 

My hope is we'll learn things in the next few weeks that will allow us to open the economy AND be reasonably certain that we can keep the coronavirus under control. If we don't, if the virus proves to confirm many of our worst fears that the virus is very deadly and hard to contain, and the remedies that show promise today don't end up working out or being enough, we can have a more serious and sober conversation about what to do mid and long term. There are too many uncertainties and unknowns to predict with confidence that things will either get a lot better or get a lot worse.

It's easy to get bogged down in point-by-point debates and I agree it doesn't serve any purpose at this juncture to continue in that fashion.

 

That being said, I believe it is the "worst fears" mentality that is causing far more harm to this country than the virus would ever do.

 

We differ on that point - you believe the damage that has been done and the damage yet to come is worth it because we don't know precisely how harmful covid19 will turn out to be.

 

I, on the other hand, think there's enough data at this point to stop government interference with the economy. If businesses want to stay closed or if they want to re-open, that should be their decision. And if people want to continue distancing themselves from others or if they want to patronize an establishment that is open, that should be their decision as well.

 

Enough is enough.

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MontyPython

I, on the other hand, think there's enough data at this point to stop government interference with the economy. If businesses want to stay closed or if they want to re-open, that should be their decision. And if people want to continue distancing themselves from others or if they want to patronize an establishment that is open, that should be their decision as well.

 

Enough is enough.

 

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

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Taggart Transcontinental

 

30 years ago? You had to go back that far? The story is from 1991.

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Taggart Transcontinental

He's giving the straight dope now, so that's a good thing.

 

How did you feel when Nancy said she's going to investigate? How did that make you feel when she placated her base with that baseless nonsense? Did you compare the claims Granma witch made with the facts of the timeline? Of course not, you just felt good didn't it. Just like a good little marxist cultist.

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Taggart Transcontinental

I feel like we've reached the point where we are mostly just repeating the same or similar things back at each other. We really reached that point a while ago, but the conversation keeps going because both of us like to debate and it's tough for our egos to not respond. I've got other things I need to do so I'm going to call it quits to the point by point back and forth. It's been a civil and worthwhile conversation, don't get me wrong, and I appreciate it! It has just hit the point of yielding diminishing returns.

 

I will say one final general thought, you can respond or not as respond as you like. My thoughts on this issue are not based on any kind of certainty about the nature of the virus or what will happen. Any "facts" about it are best guesses based on incomplete data, and involve a range of "likely" vs "unlikely" outcomes. A big part of the reason why I believe it's worth the very high cost to shut down most social interaction in the short term is that it gives us time to nail down some of those variables. To get a better picture of how dangerous the virus actually is (or isn't). To learn more about how it spreads and what measures are most efficient and cost effective at containing and preventing it. To find treatments and ways to more efficiently and effectively care for the people who catch it.

 

My hope is we'll learn things in the next few weeks that will allow us to open the economy AND be reasonably certain that we can keep the coronavirus under control. If we don't, if the virus proves to confirm many of our worst fears that the virus is very deadly and hard to contain, and the remedies that show promise today don't end up working out or being enough, we can have a more serious and sober conversation about what to do mid and long term. There are too many uncertainties and unknowns to predict with confidence that things will either get a lot better or get a lot worse.

 

Starting with the Chinese government that delayed our response by providing us and the world with false / incomplete data. Intentionally misleading us so as to not stop the travel coming from China. If we had a better picture we would have stopped the travel sooner and that would have spared New York and Washington/California. Or haven't you noticed the hardest places hit so far have high Chinese populations? This is not a slam on Chinese people. I married a Taiwanese woman. This virus was released in the middle of travel season for Chinese New Year. Predictably the largest travel season for Asians, they delayed reporting to allow those people to spread a disease they knew nothing about. This was and continues to be an attack. Now they are providing substandard medical supplies to the western countries to damage our medical response.

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zurg

It's easy to get bogged down in point-by-point debates and I agree it doesn't serve any purpose at this juncture to continue in that fashion.

 

That being said, I believe it is the "worst fears" mentality that is causing far more harm to this country than the virus would ever do.

 

We differ on that point - you believe the damage that has been done and the damage yet to come is worth it because we don't know precisely how harmful covid19 will turn out to be.

 

I, on the other hand, think there's enough data at this point to stop government interference with the economy. If businesses want to stay closed or if they want to re-open, that should be their decision. And if people want to continue distancing themselves from others or if they want to patronize an establishment that is open, that should be their decision as well.

 

Enough is enough.

Fair points, and I would love to agree with this, because in principle it’s the right idea but unfortunately I think it fails in practice, for a couple of reasons:

1) All indications are that Covid19 is not like the flu in severity but can be much much worse. I admit that we don’t fully know yet, however the numbers we currently have from here and from around the globe are not reassuring. And it is at least as contagious as the flu, and probably worse.

2) The freedoms of decision you appeal to would be great, except that it is practically impossible to hold those people to two standards that they would need to be held to:

- only interact with people who voluntarily do the same and don’t expose those who want to be isolated (who do occasionally need to go out to buy groceries and medicines). It’s not possible to have two groups concurrently, the isolated ones and the non-isolated ones and keep them separated.

- if/when the non-isolated ones get sick, to not go to clinics and hospitals to take away treatments from those who actually tried to avoid the disease, who actually made that effort. If both of these conditions were possible, why would I care what you do? I wouldn’t.

 

I think Trump and his task force are going about this the right way. This disease wasn’t our fault. We shouldn’t have to deal with it. Life is unfair. We deal with it now and try to make sure we don’t have to deal with another one from China anytime soon.

 

The literal post-mortem needs to be directed at China. THAT is the real culprit.

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That_Guy
Posted (edited)

I, on the other hand, think there's enough data at this point to stop government interference with the economy. If businesses want to stay closed or if they want to re-open, that should be their decision.

 

Leave decisions about public health to be made by individual business owners during a global pandemic?

giphy.gif

 

Who would be there to protect and serve those business owners?

 

Coronavirus strains nation's largest police force; 1,000-plus NYPD cops test positive

Edited by That_Guy

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ThePatriot

Fair points, and I would love to agree with this, because in principle it’s the right idea but unfortunately I think it fails in practice, for a couple of reasons:

1) All indications are that Covid19 is not like the flu in severity but can be much much worse. I admit that we don’t fully know yet, however the numbers we currently have from here and from around the globe are not reassuring. And it is at least as contagious as the flu, and probably worse.

2) The freedoms of decision you appeal to would be great, except that it is practically impossible to hold those people to two standards that they would need to be held to:

- only interact with people who voluntarily do the same and don’t expose those who want to be isolated (who do occasionally need to go out to buy groceries and medicines). It’s not possible to have two groups concurrently, the isolated ones and the non-isolated ones and keep them separated.

- if/when the non-isolated ones get sick, to not go to clinics and hospitals to take away treatments from those who actually tried to avoid the disease, who actually made that effort. If both of these conditions were possible, why would I care what you do? I wouldn’t.

 

I think Trump and his task force are going about this the right way. This disease wasn’t our fault. We shouldn’t have to deal with it. Life is unfair. We deal with it now and try to make sure we don’t have to deal with another one from China anytime soon.

 

The literal post-mortem needs to be directed at China. THAT is the real culprit.

The total number of known cases GLOBALLY is 928k - less than a million. If infectious disease experts are correct, then at least 10x are actually infected, so less than 10 million people out of 7.5 BILLION.

 

In the US, we have 211k known cases, which means approx. 2.1 million Americans are infected. To put that in perspective, it's estimated that 31 million Americans got the flu this last flu season.

 

And while that 2.1 million will certainly continue to rise, we do not yet know if covid19 is more contagious than the flu.

 

Some estimates put the infection rate at 1.4. To put that in perspective, the infection rate for the flu is 1.3. So it may not be any more contagious than the flu - we just don't know yet.

 

Overall, I do not find these numbers the least bit frightening and certainly not worthy of suffering TRILLIONS of dollars of damage to our economy.

 

I WANT to live in a free society - not in one where the gov't is making decisions for me. That's not freedom.

 

Just my two cents.

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zurg

The total number of known cases GLOBALLY is 928k - less than a million. If infectious disease experts are correct, then at least 10x are actually infected, so less than 10 million people out of 7.5 BILLION.

 

In the US, we have 211k known cases, which means approx. 2.1 million Americans are infected. To put that in perspective, it's estimated that 31 million Americans got the flu this last flu season.

 

And while that 2.1 million will certainly continue to rise, we do not yet know if covid19 is more contagious than the flu.

 

Some estimates put the infection rate at 1.4. To put that in perspective, the infection rate for the flu is 1.3. So it may not be any more contagious than the flu - we just don't know yet.

 

Overall, I do not find these numbers the least bit frightening and certainly not worthy of suffering TRILLIONS of dollars of damage to our economy.

 

I WANT to live in a free society - not in one where the gov't is making decisions for me. That's not freedom.

 

Just my two cents.

I get that, but the verdict on just how bad this disease is still needs to be settled.

 

If your decision didn’t affect me at all, I wouldn’t mind what you do. But it does. You think you should have the freedom to decide for yourself, but in this case you’ll ALSO end up deciding for me, thus removing my right to decide.

 

That’s the problem. I thus err on the side of caution.

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