Jump to content
To change color scheme, click on themes at bottom of page ×
RightNation.US
Sign in to follow this  
pepperonikkid

Stop the 'anecdotal' nonsense

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

pepperonikkid

Stop the 'anecdotal' nonsense

 

 

 

https://www.americanthinker.com/

By Jim Dicks

April 9, 2020

 

 

Article:

 

 

"Anecdotal" has suddenly transmogrified into a magic word with power to shut down any further inquiry, discussion, or debate of hydroxychloroquine's (HYQ) application as a Wuhan virus antidote. This one simple word has reached ultimate status in the world of TDS-sufferers everywhere as the definitive slayer of arguments for the drug's use to impede the deadly path of the virus.

 

This sad fact is representative of a pernicious chasm in our society. The deeply felt antipathy and revulsion of anything Trump by TDS-sufferers are so intense, raw, and vituperative that the one, and so far, only readily available treatment modality demonstrating high efficacy in stopping COVID-19 — when used in combination with zinc sulfate and azithromycin and administered early in the progression of the disease — is being withheld from widespread implementation as the ubiquitous solution to save lives and help end the plague.

 

The president's daily coronavirus press briefings immediately degenerate into full-blown verbal assaults from a shrill, mostly hateful press once questions begin. Reporters vie with one another to see who can win the daily prize for the best "gotcha" question rather than focus on how best to help the American public.

 

Under normal circumstances (whatever meaning normal has in the age of Trump), the majority of the nation unafflicted with TDS generally goes about its business with a "what can you do?" attitude toward these sufferers, carefully monitoring political weathervanes of friends, co-workers, and family to avoid triggering spite-filled outbursts and diatribes. However, with the pandemic upon us, the TDS-afflicted have devolved into reflexive resistance to HYQ as a promising solution to help stem the tide of ever-increasing deaths and suffering from the virus simply because Trump supports its use.

 

Dr. Fauci's constant rejoinder to the HYQ treatment solution is to dismiss it as anecdotal. But what is anecdotal? The ever-growing number of HYQ studies conducted by medical researchers, the case histories of practicing physicians such as Dr. Vladimir Zelenko of upstate New York, Dr. William Grace of New York City, and Dr. Anthony Cardillo of Los Angeles, as well as a growing number of doctors and hospitals around the country, are not "anecdotes," and it is outrageous for Fauci and the media to characterize them as such in the face of a thousand deaths a day from COVID-19. These are not personal accounts or stories, but rather in-the-field medical cases entered in patient records that can be verified by medical investigators. Enlightened, dedicated doctors in this desperate time are frantically searching for solutions to save their patients' lives. These practicing physicians are applying abductive reasoning, forming a conclusion drawn from known facts to arrive at the best possible outcome. They cannot wait, in a life-and-death crisis, for the absolute, definitive remedy when their patients' lives are hanging in the balance.

 

Full Story

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mjperry51

Anecdotal means "Not discovered here -- and we're the experts. . . ."

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Taggart Transcontinental

Fauci seems to be the guy that is in the Command team and keeps undermining the Commander. Things like "the boss says this is the policy" only signal to the troops that the guy does not support the decision. That degrades the ability of the leadership to execute the plan appropriately. If Fauci does not like the way the POTUS is leading the nation he's got every right to resign, step aside and let someone that is just as qualified and capable step up and lead. This is a nation of 325,000,000 people, Fauci isn't the only guy capabale of running this stuff. Nor is he possibly the BEST guy to run this program.

 

In the Army we have a saying. Lead, Follow, or Get the Hell out of the way. Certain people don't want to lead, they don't like following, and they want to fall down in front of you to slow you down. We see that a lot with the left.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
zurg

What’s the ultimate? Anecdotal whataboutism! It doesn’t get any flimsier than that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dean Adam Smithee

Yeah, so some people have "heard it from a Friend, or on the 'net" that there "this doctor" with 100% cure rate.

 

Great line from Jerry Maguire was "Show me the Money".

 

"Show me the studies". Not just 'anecdotal' but actual legit controlled 'double blind' studies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Taggart Transcontinental

Yeah, so some people have "heard it from a Friend, or on the 'net" that there "this doctor" with 100% cure rate.

 

Great line from Jerry Maguire was "Show me the Money".

 

"Show me the studies". Not just 'anecdotal' but actual legit controlled 'double blind' studies.

 

Really?

 

Double blind studies in a pandemic? So you want a control group of people you may know to get treated with sugar pills so that we can prove the capability of a drug? Is that where you want to be? I asked this of another poster with no response. Double blind guarantees people WILL die so that we can validate a damn number. If people are coming off treatment 2-5 days after receiving it and getting better I will take 100% anecdotal over a double blind study that tells me that it's 89% effective when used.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mjperry51
Posted (edited)

Yeah, so some people have "heard it from a Friend, or on the 'net" that there "this doctor" with 100% cure rate.

 

Great line from Jerry Maguire was "Show me the Money".

 

"Show me the studies". Not just 'anecdotal' but actual legit controlled 'double blind' studies.

 

I can't recall a single poster here saying "Don't do the studies."

 

This attitude that anecdotal evidence of efficacy is meaningless is just plain absurd. This isn't the same as morons consuming fish tank cleaner -- it's doctors prescribing a 65 year old medication that has widely demonstrated effectiveness in treating COVID-19.

 

You go ahead and bury your engineering mindset in the sand; I hope you don't get the virus, decline a HC prescription for lack of drawn out double blind studies and die. . .

 

ETA: There is NO medication currently in use that has been tested as you want --should ALL the use of medications be discontinued for COVID-19??

Edited by mjperry51

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Taggart Transcontinental

I can't recall a single poster here saying "Don't do the studies."

 

This attitude that anecdotal evidence of efficacy is meaningless is just plain absurd. This isn't the same as morons consuming fish tank cleaner -- it's doctors prescribing a 65 year old medication that has widely demonstrated effectiveness in treating COVID-19.

 

You go ahead and bury your engineering mindset in the sand; I hope you don't get the virus, decline a HC prescription for lack of drawn out double blind studies and die. . .

 

ETA: There is NO medication currently in use that has been tested as you want --should ALL the use of medications be discontinued for COVID-19??

 

If study means some people get a fake treatment (double blind sort of thing), then I am 100% behind NOT doing a "study". All people receive the drug they are told they are getting we can do math at a later day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mjperry51

If study means some people get a fake treatment (double blind sort of thing), then I am 100% behind NOT doing a "study". All people receive the drug they are told they are getting we can do math at a later day.

 

There's a time for everything.

 

If the participants KNOW they may be getting a placebo then that's fine. That said, if they don't want to participate in a study and want to pursue treatment recommended by their doctor then they should be able to do that.

 

The concept that doctors should NOT be able to prescribe a medication that has been in use for over 60 years as treatment for a new disease for which the medication shows exceptional widespread anecdotal promise is stupid.

 

It's my view when this is past the approval process for new medicines needs a serious review and overhaul. . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dean Adam Smithee

Really?

 

Double blind studies in a pandemic? So you want a control group of people you may know to get treated with sugar pills so that we can prove the capability of a drug? Is that where you want to be? I asked this of another poster with no response. Double blind guarantees people WILL die so that we can validate a damn number. If people are coming off treatment 2-5 days after receiving it and getting better I will take 100% anecdotal over a double blind study that tells me that it's 89% effective when used.

 

I'd at least like to see something MORE than a non-controlled French study of (only) 20 people, or some doctor who makes all the talk shows claiming to have cured "100%" of the 600-some he gave it to but who has yet to write it up an a way that can be meaningfully peer-reviewed and who has since been rebuked in an open letter from community officials who claim his results were nonsense because there never were all that many in the community infected to begin with.

 

New York state is sponsoring a large scale study that they purchased 70,000 or so doses for. That study has been ongoing since March 24th, which is now 17 days ago.

 

If Dr. Zenko's mythical 100% cure takes only 6 to 8 days as he's claimed, why aren't we hearing at least 'preliminary' results from the NY study or any other LEGIT study?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mjperry51
Posted (edited)

I'd at least like to see something MORE than a non-controlled French study of (only) 20 people, or some doctor who makes all the talk shows claiming to have cured "100%" of the 600-some he gave it to but who has yet to write it up an a way that can be meaningfully peer-reviewed and who has since been rebuked in an open letter from community officials who claim his results were nonsense because there never were all that many in the community infected to begin with.

 

New York state is sponsoring a large scale study that they purchased 70,000 or so doses for. That study has been ongoing since March 24th, which is now 17 days ago.

 

If Dr. Zenko's mythical 100% cure takes only 6 to 8 days as he's claimed, why aren't we hearing at least 'preliminary' results from the NY study or any other LEGIT study?

 

French researcher Dr. Didier Raoult has now treated 1000 coronavirus patient with 99.3% success rate [update]

ETA: Again - I hope you have the time to wait for your precious peer-reviewed, double blind studies. . .

 

Edited by mjperry51

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Coach

We are at the mercy of people who live by protocols rather than results. That is not only not smart it's dangerous and un-American.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dean Adam Smithee

French researcher Dr. Didier Raoult has now treated 1000 coronavirus patient with 99.3% success rate [update]

 

Yet another doctor making incredible claims while at the same time refusing to release the raw data for review.

 

ETA: Again - I hope you have the time to wait for your precious peer-reviewed, double blind studies. . .

 

Dr. Raoult claims it takes 6 days. Well, that should be easy to replicate in a legit setting. I can wait. Come to think of it, we HAVE been waiting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mjperry51

Dr. Raoult claims it takes 6 days. Well, that should be easy to replicate in a legit setting. I can wait. Come to think of it, we HAVE been waiting.

 

There is no desire on the part of the controlling authorities to do so, as you know since we "are waiting". We're still being fed the 18 month timeframe. My wife's cousin Flora didn't have 18 months.

 

As far as I'm concerned the two medical "stars" of the daily briefings are swamp dwellers.

 

Enjoy your ostrich hole. . . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dean Adam Smithee
Posted (edited)

We are at the mercy of people who live by protocols rather than results. That is not only not smart it's dangerous and un-American.

 

I'd be more than happy to live by results... IF there were any. Proven ones, that is.

 


  •  
  • New York state is currently on their 17th day of trials for which they purchased 70,000+ doses.
     
  • Duke University is currently leading a $50Million study with 15,000 volunteers across hundreds of healthcare systems in the US. Half get chloroquine either by itself or with zinc or other things, half get a placebo.
     
  • Oxford University of England is currently testing Chloroquine, Hydroxychloroquine, and placebo amongst 40,000 volunteers in Europe and Asia.
     
  • Istinye University School of Medicine in Istanbul Turkey is two weeks into a trial with 98 volunteers with an interesting theory that it takes not just Chloroquine + zinc but that along with Vitamin A and D supplements.

 

If this was really the "6 Day Miracle Cure" that some of the Bullscheisse Artists are touting, you don't think someone from one of these LEGIT studies would be shouting "Eureka!" by now???

 

 

EtA: This just in: Swedish hospitals stop chloroquine trials as patients complain of dangerous side effects

Edited by Dean Adam Smithee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mjperry51

I'd be more than happy to live by results... IF there were any. Proven ones, that is.

 

  • New York state is currently on their 17th day of trials for which they purchased 70,000+ doses.
  • Duke University is currently leading a $50Million study with 15,000 volunteers across hundreds of healthcare systems in the US. Half get chloroquine either by itself or with zinc or other things, half get a placebo.
  • Oxford University of England is currently testing Chloroquine, Hydroxychloroquine, and placebo amongst 40,000 volunteers in Europe and Asia.
  • Istinye University School of Medicine in Istanbul Turkey is two weeks into a trial with 98 volunteers with an interesting theory that it takes not just Chloroquine + zinc but that along with Vitamin A and D supplements.

 

If this was really the "6 Day Miracle Cure" that some of the Bullscheisse Artists are touting, you don't think someone from one of these LEGIT studies would be shouting "Eureka!" by now???

 

 

EtA: This just in: Swedish hospitals stop chloroquine trials as patients complain of dangerous side effects

 

Do keep up -- the hot button medication is HydroxyChloroquine. not Chloroquine. . . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
USNRETWIFE

The patient and/or family should have the right to make the decision to use this medication or not, 'anecdotal' or not. Their choice? Maybe die of the virus or die of the meds. I would try they meds. And some politician somewhere should not be able to make those decisions for me. Anyone who doesn't want to try it, or who wants to wait for trials is welcome to make those decisions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
zurg

Adam - you of ALL posters here should know about HIPAA. Or now, European GDPR. Led by France, and VERY VERY restrictive on what personal data can be released.

 

If the doctor edits out patient names and descriptions, it becomes he-said-Adam-said. You’ll reject.

 

Next argument.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JerryL

I'd at least like to see something MORE than a non-controlled French study of (only) 20 people, or some doctor who makes all the talk shows claiming to have cured "100%" of the 600-some he gave it to but who has yet to write it up an a way that can be meaningfully peer-reviewed and who has since been rebuked in an open letter from community officials who claim his results were nonsense because there never were all that many in the community infected to begin with.

 

New York state is sponsoring a large scale study that they purchased 70,000 or so doses for. That study has been ongoing since March 24th, which is now 17 days ago.

 

If Dr. Zenko's mythical 100% cure takes only 6 to 8 days as he's claimed, why aren't we hearing at least 'preliminary' results from the NY study or any other LEGIT study?

In the long-term, OK. Fair enough.

 

In the short-term, why? Is the drug that has been around for 60 years, when prescribed and administered by a licensed physician, making things worse? Are there "anecdotal" studies that show that using the drug has exacerbated the virus and the illness in any significant number of patients?

 

If not, and since we DO have all the snippets indicating that it is pretty darn effective, WTF Adam? Why WOULDN'T you want it used?

 

IF you get COVID-19, which I hope you don't, will you refuse treatment with Hydroxychloroquine? Simple question...will you give a straight answer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mjperry51

In the long-term, OK. Fair enough.

 

In the short-term, why? Is the drug that has been around for 60 years, when prescribed and administered by a licensed physician, making things worse? Are there "anecdotal" studies that show that using the drug has exacerbated the virus and the illness in any significant number of patients?

 

If not, and since we DO have all the snippets indicating that it is pretty darn effective, WTF Adam? Why WOULDN'T you want it used?

 

IF you get COVID-19, which I hope you don't, will you refuse treatment with Hydroxychloroquine? Simple question...will you give a straight answer?

 

He still hasn't answered my question here:

 

Since none of the drugs currently being used to treat COVID-19 have been tested (as he wants) for this purpose should we stop using all of them??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
zurg

He still hasn't answered my question here:

 

Since none of the drugs currently being used to treat COVID-19 have been tested (as he wants) for this purpose should we stop using all of them??

This is a good point. For example, positive pressure ventilation hasn’t specifically been tested for covid19. Why doesn’t Adam object to that too? Etc. Etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Taggart Transcontinental

I'd at least like to see something MORE than a non-controlled French study of (only) 20 people, or some doctor who makes all the talk shows claiming to have cured "100%" of the 600-some he gave it to but who has yet to write it up an a way that can be meaningfully peer-reviewed and who has since been rebuked in an open letter from community officials who claim his results were nonsense because there never were all that many in the community infected to begin with.

 

New York state is sponsoring a large scale study that they purchased 70,000 or so doses for. That study has been ongoing since March 24th, which is now 17 days ago.

 

If Dr. Zenko's mythical 100% cure takes only 6 to 8 days as he's claimed, why aren't we hearing at least 'preliminary' results from the NY study or any other LEGIT study?

 

Peer reviewed? Come on, how long does the peer review process take? I get it, you are careful, but are you so careful you will watch someone die while waiting for a set of instructions that say put your finger in the hole to stop the bleeding? There is cautious and there is frozen in space. This is not the time to be cautious. The mechanisms this disease use to attack the body are becoming well known, therefore any drug that stops those mechanisms is a good one to try, specially when the side effects are well known and manageable.

 

The question you should be asking yourself is WHY aren't we hearing about these things? Maybe because they are of the mind that they are ok with this pandemic holding us in place while they get their candidate some more support. I don't know why, one thing I have noticed.

 

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

If you go to this website, and drill down to the US you will notice that there are over 29,000 recoveries in the US. A week ago it was much much less than that, hell last week it was less than 10,000. Yet what I don't see is when I drill down into NY or any of the other places any sort of recoveries listed there. So where are these 29,000 recoveries on the national scale if there are none in New York, New Jersey, Chicago, etc. SO they are so dutiful at counting the deaths, and the afflicted, but you don't see where the people recovering are. Don't you find that a bit suspicious? I certainly do. In other words we have recovered over 19,000 people in about 7 - 9 days and yet we have no idea where they are recovered from.

 

Now lets talk about these EXPERTS by the way, Fauci and Brix or what ever are experts in their field, they are also biased based upon their position and personal politics. So they want to delay this until they are comfortable. There is no accident that the NY Times got a claim of 300,000 people dead the second we open up our economy, you know the same experts that predicted 1-2 Million deaths in the US from this disease? Yet we are supposed to stay hunkered down in our homes until these experts clear us. Sorry that is ridiculous. People need to eat, they need to work, they need to get out of the house. These houses are not our prison cells until the experts come and unlock them to release us. One other thing, the experts will get money, period, they will get food period, if the supply chain fails they will be fed by the government, and military.

 

They are not like us, remember they are experts. I don't worship at the altar of the expert, they are human and fallible and biased to any number of perspectives.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Taggart Transcontinental

Yet another doctor making incredible claims while at the same time refusing to release the raw data for review.

 

 

 

Dr. Raoult claims it takes 6 days. Well, that should be easy to replicate in a legit setting. I can wait. Come to think of it, we HAVE been waiting.

 

Maybe he's compiling his data for a peer reviewed document he will later publish. Do you think that following the guidelines he's written will kill a patient? If the person is otherwise healthy Hydro will not kill them. Hell I took it for a year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Taggart Transcontinental

There's a time for everything.

 

If the participants KNOW they may be getting a placebo then that's fine. That said, if they don't want to participate in a study and want to pursue treatment recommended by their doctor then they should be able to do that.

 

The concept that doctors should NOT be able to prescribe a medication that has been in use for over 60 years as treatment for a new disease for which the medication shows exceptional widespread anecdotal promise is stupid.

 

It's my view when this is past the approval process for new medicines needs a serious review and overhaul. . .

 

With your life on the line, would you sign up for a study that says you MAY get a sugar pill instead of the drug, or worse, not knowing what a double blind study is accept participation in the study and not be told you may receive a placebo instead? I don't think I would sign up for a study. I would want the damn drug.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Taggart Transcontinental

I'd be more than happy to live by results... IF there were any. Proven ones, that is.

 

  • New York state is currently on their 17th day of trials for which they purchased 70,000+ doses.
  • Duke University is currently leading a $50Million study with 15,000 volunteers across hundreds of healthcare systems in the US. Half get chloroquine either by itself or with zinc or other things, half get a placebo.
  • Oxford University of England is currently testing Chloroquine, Hydroxychloroquine, and placebo amongst 40,000 volunteers in Europe and Asia.
  • Istinye University School of Medicine in Istanbul Turkey is two weeks into a trial with 98 volunteers with an interesting theory that it takes not just Chloroquine + zinc but that along with Vitamin A and D supplements.

 

If this was really the "6 Day Miracle Cure" that some of the Bullscheisse Artists are touting, you don't think someone from one of these LEGIT studies would be shouting "Eureka!" by now???

 

 

EtA: This just in: Swedish hospitals stop chloroquine trials as patients complain of dangerous side effects

 

So wow! 7500, dead in one study, 20,000 dead in another study. When did the medical profession be about killing 50% of a patient load so they can prove something? This is not some silly scalp condition that can make you go bald if the drug dont' work. This is literally a life or death proposition and these studies guarantee at least a 50% death rate possibility. What wonderful concepts. But hey, in about 12 months after the studies have been validated, peer reviewed and published you can point to them and say wow! The French doctor was right! How crazy is that!!!! WHO KNEW!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...