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Hundreds of Michigan Residents Turn Over Unsolicited Ballot Applications Sent to Dead, Noncitizen, Underage ‘Voters’

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Timothy
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, zurg said:

It goes to deliberate intention, like Patriot explained. All crime is increased when steps that require deliberate (easier to catch) action are eliminated. It’s much easier to claim something was a “mistake” when it took less intention to get there. This cannot be debated, it’s a fact. The only question up for debate is HOW MUCH the eliminations help. 

Sending in a form that clearly doesn't have your name and information on it isn't enough to prove bad intent?

We're talking about printing a PDF here.  There are many other steps that do far more to fit your description of a step that "requires deliberate (easier to catch) action".

Edited by Timothy

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ThePatriot
1 hour ago, Timothy said:

You're right, there are tons of people who are just itching to commit voter fraud, but having to print out a PDF is the only thing preventing them from doing it.

Yes, I know I'm right.  There are definitely tons of people, particularly Democrats, itching to commit voter fraud.

And there is no need to print out a PDF when Democrat governors are breaking the law and sending out millions and millions of unsolicited ballot applications that can easily be fraudulently filled out and returned by mail.  Democrat run states will then send ballots to those same people who will then fraudulently fill those out and mail them back in.

It's what you and those like you want to happen because voter fraud is the only way Dementia Joe has any chance of beating Trump.

And you all know it.

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Timothy
Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, ThePatriot said:

Yes, I know I'm right.  There are definitely tons of people, particularly Democrats, itching to commit voter fraud.

And there is no need to print out a PDF when Democrat governors are breaking the law and sending out millions and millions of unsolicited ballot applications that can easily be fraudulently filled out and returned by mail.  Democrat run states will then send ballots to those same people who will then fraudulently fill those out and mail them back in.

It's what you and those like you want to happen because voter fraud is the only way Dementia Joe has any chance of beating Trump.

And you all know it.

If someone is inclined to fill out a fraudulent ballot, making them print out a PDF in addition to everything else they have to do is very unlikely to make any difference.

If you really believe fraudulent vote by mail ballots is such a massive problem you should be calling for eliminating vote by mail or some other major reform of the process.  Focusing on the relatively minor question of how someone acquires a vote by mail application makes no sense.

I won't speak to the motives of the people commenting here, but it's obvious that right-wing pundits and politicians know this is a non-issue and just oppose efforts to increase legitimate voter turn-out because they think lower turn-out is better for them.

Edited by Timothy

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Ticked@TinselTown
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Timothy said:

You're right, there are tons of people who are just itching to commit voter fraud, but having to print out a PDF is the only thing preventing them from doing it.

It's not just that you're patently stupid, but that you're willfully stupid that makes you so utterly disgusting.

Edited by Ticked@TinselTown
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JerryL
47 minutes ago, Timothy said:

If someone is inclined to fill out a fraudulent ballot, making them print out a PDF in addition to everything else they have to do is very unlikely to make any difference.

If you really believe fraudulent vote by mail ballots is such a massive problem you should be calling for eliminating vote by mail or some other major reform of the process.  Focusing on the relatively minor question of how someone acquires a vote by mail application makes no sense.

I won't speak to the motives of the people commenting here, but it's obvious that right-wing pundits and politicians know this is a non-issue and just oppose efforts to increase legitimate voter turn-out because they think lower turn-out is better for them.

If you print out a PDF, does that PDF come with an envelope with the full name and address of someone that the State believes to be an eligible voter? 

Does having the name and address of record of someone the State believes to be an eligible voter make it easier or harder to impersonate that person and fraudulently cast their ballot?

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MontyPython

Oh fer the luvva...

Timothy, what about people who don't have computers? And those who do (like me), but clicking on a PDF freezes their computer (like mine)? Or people who have computers that don't freeze on PDFs, but have no printers? Or people (like me) who do have printers, but can't afford ink cartridges?

And so on. The point is that trying to suggest "anybody" can just "print out" a PDF any old time they want, and therefore it's "no different" than mailing one to EVERYBODY with or without an actual legitimate request for one, is ridiculously naïve.

C'mon, I know you hate to admit the utter corruption of the Democrat party, but you're just not this stupid. You're just not this naïve. You know this is just the latest voter-fraud scam by the Democrats. I don't care whether or not you're honest enough to admit it, the fact remains you're not stupid enough to "not know" it's true,

<_< 

 

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Howsithangin
12 hours ago, Timothy said:

What about the state government mailing out vote by mail applications is voter fraud?

Fraud would be someone other than the registered voter filling out the VBM application.  If that person isn't there anymore, don't fill out or send in the application.

Dear God, he can be that stupid.

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Howsithangin
2 hours ago, Timothy said:

I won't speak to the motives of the people commenting here, but it's obvious that right-wing pundits and politicians know this is a non-issue and just oppose efforts to increase legitimate voter turn-out because they think lower turn-out is better for them.

Traditional voting methods were all fine and dandy until you Maollennials came along and made it an issue.

Explain to us how India, Iraq, and other Third World nations can hold valid elections in the traditional fashion, but we can't because of..something.

Go sell crazy somewhere else. Try thinking for a change instead of spouting the the usual DNC rhetoric

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Howsithangin
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Timothy said:

We're talking about printing a PDF here.  There are many other steps that do far more to fit your description of a step that "requires deliberate (easier to catch) action".

OR, they could get off of their fat, dimpled asses and walk/stumble/crawl/sashay over to the local polling place with a photo ID; though it may be guarded by BLM thugs, that it is true <_<

Edited by Howsithangin
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MontyPython
4 hours ago, Howsithangin said:

Traditional voting methods were all fine and dandy until you Maollennials came along and made it an issue.

Explain to us how India, Iraq, and other Third World nations can hold valid elections in the traditional fashion, but we can't because of..something.

Go sell crazy somewhere else. Try thinking for a change instead of spouting the the usual DNC rhetoric

"...Maollennials..."

LOL, love it!

:lol: 

 

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zurg
9 hours ago, Timothy said:

Sending in a form that clearly doesn't have your name and information on it isn't enough to prove bad intent?

We're talking about printing a PDF here.  There are many other steps that do far more to fit your description of a step that "requires deliberate (easier to catch) action".

As others have explained, every step in the process that makes fraud easier, results in more fraud. 
 

One other aspect in addition to making the actual task easier is intention. I referred to this in my post previously already. It is easier for a fraudulent vote to be cast if “the government gave me the form”. It’s much easier to claim “I only did as instructed”. This is ALWAYS the case with crime. Proving intent. 
 

“I didn’t mean to break the window but someone had left a stack of bricks there.”

“I didn’t mean to speed but I just got this new car and I’m not used to how fast it is.” 

“I didn’t mean to cast that vote but I filled out mine and somehow the other one got mixed up with mine when I put them in the mail, the government sent me the form, I got confused.”

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RedSoloCup

Scared, Timmah? :biglaugh:

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Timothy
5 hours ago, Howsithangin said:

Traditional voting methods were all fine and dandy until you Maollennials came along and made it an issue.

Explain to us how India, Iraq, and other Third World nations can hold valid elections in the traditional fashion, but we can't because of..something.

Go sell crazy somewhere else. Try thinking for a change instead of spouting the the usual DNC rhetoric

Voting by mail started during the Civil War.

I guess we know the REAL reason for the Civil War now.  It wasn't slavery or state's rights, but millennials!  😄

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Timothy
7 hours ago, JerryL said:

If you print out a PDF, does that PDF come with an envelope with the full name and address of someone that the State believes to be an eligible voter? 

Does having the name and address of record of someone the State believes to be an eligible voter make it easier or harder to impersonate that person and fraudulently cast their ballot?

The addition of that information makes it easier, that's a fair point.  But this is hardly the only way to get that information.  Election officials also mail out voter registration cards to all registered voters.  Voter rolls are public and can often be searched and/or downloaded from the web.  Political parties and candidates use information from voter rolls to send out political mail.

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Timothy
7 hours ago, MontyPython said:

Oh fer the luvva...

Timothy, what about people who don't have computers? And those who do (like me), but clicking on a PDF freezes their computer (like mine)? Or people who have computers that don't freeze on PDFs, but have no printers? Or people (like me) who do have printers, but can't afford ink cartridges?

And so on. The point is that trying to suggest "anybody" can just "print out" a PDF any old time they want, and therefore it's "no different" than mailing one to EVERYBODY with or without an actual legitimate request for one, is ridiculously naïve.

C'mon, I know you hate to admit the utter corruption of the Democrat party, but you're just not this stupid. You're just not this naïve. You know this is just the latest voter-fraud scam by the Democrats. I don't care whether or not you're honest enough to admit it, the fact remains you're not stupid enough to "not know" it's true,

<_< 

 

Yes, some people don't have the capability to easily print a PDF.  Though there are options to go to a print shop (where you can print black and white for ~10 cents a page) or get a form from a place like a library.

Keep in mind, this is merely an application to get a ballot.  A "request", if you will.  If you don't like this way of disseminating vote by mail applications, what ways are you OK with?  Should the PDF be available on the web?  Should political parties and candidates be allowed to mail vote by mail applications to their supporters, which both sides routinely do?  Should the form be available in libraries?

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Natural Selection
18 hours ago, Timothy said:

What about the state government mailing out vote by mail applications is voter fraud?

Fraud would be someone other than the registered voter filling out the VBM application.  If that person isn't there anymore, don't fill out or send in the application.

NJ City Officials Charged After 1 In 5 Mail-In Ballots Found To Be Fraudulent In Election

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Timothy
1 hour ago, zurg said:

As others have explained, every step in the process that makes fraud easier, results in more fraud. 

Almost anything you do to make voting easier also indirectly makes fraud easier, simply because you have to go through the steps of voting to commit voter fraud.

Should voting be complicated simply for the sake of being complicated, even if the extraneous steps themselves don't do anything to directly prevent voter fraud?

Quote

One other aspect in addition to making the actual task easier is intention. I referred to this in my post previously already. It is easier for a fraudulent vote to be cast if “the government gave me the form”. It’s much easier to claim “I only did as instructed”. This is ALWAYS the case with crime. Proving intent. 
 

“I didn’t mean to break the window but someone had left a stack of bricks there.”

“I didn’t mean to speed but I just got this new car and I’m not used to how fast it is.” 

“I didn’t mean to cast that vote but I filled out mine and somehow the other one got mixed up with mine when I put them in the mail, the government sent me the form, I got confused.”

The fact that these forms require someone to open, fill out, and sign for a specific person is the primary step that prevents the wrong person from unwittingly filling it out.  And to submit a fraudulent ballot they'd have to do it not once but twice.  There may be a few edge cases where there's probable deniability because people share the same name (and even age/birthday when that's required on the forms), but that's it.

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Natural Selection
1 minute ago, Timothy said:

There may be a few edge cases where there's probable deniability because people share the same name (and even age/birthday when that's required on the forms), but that's it.

You are in total denial.

NJ City Officials Charged After 1 In 5 Mail-In Ballots Found To Be Fraudulent In Election

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MontyPython
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Timothy said:

Yes, some people don't have the capability to easily print a PDF.  Though there are options to go to a print shop (where you can print black and white for ~10 cents a page) or get a form from a place like a library.

Keep in mind, this is merely an application to get a ballot.  A "request", if you will.  If you don't like this way of disseminating vote by mail applications, what ways are you OK with?  Should the PDF be available on the web?  Should political parties and candidates be allowed to mail vote by mail applications to their supporters, which both sides routinely do?  Should the form be available in libraries?

It should be done the way it always used to be done: People with a legitimate need for an absentee ballot (invalids, shut-ins, people overseas, military personnel, etc) can request one. Sending out request forms to everybody, including the vast majority who don't need one, plus dead people, people who no longer live there, etc, is nothing more than the latest Democrat ploy to enable voter fraud. You should be honest enough to admit that.

B)

 

Edited by MontyPython

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ThePatriot
9 hours ago, Timothy said:

If someone is inclined to fill out a fraudulent ballot, making them print out a PDF in addition to everything else they have to do is very unlikely to make any difference.

If you really believe fraudulent vote by mail ballots is such a massive problem you should be calling for eliminating vote by mail or some other major reform of the process.  Focusing on the relatively minor question of how someone acquires a vote by mail application makes no sense.

I won't speak to the motives of the people commenting here, but it's obvious that right-wing pundits and politicians know this is a non-issue and just oppose efforts to increase legitimate voter turn-out because they think lower turn-out is better for them.

Now you're being purposely obtuse.  Once again, THERE IS NO NEED TO PRINT A PDF when Democrat governors are breaking the law and mailing out millions and millions of UNSOLICITED ballot applications.

It's one thing if someone has requested an absentee ballot, but it's something else altogether when those applications are sent out willy nilly by the state to people who DIDN'T request them.

As has already been proven, regardless of the fact that you ignore the proof, this breeds FRAUD.  And if you had any integrity, you would be AGAINST it instead of in favor of it.

This only proves you don't care about fair elections.

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Natural Selection
5 minutes ago, Timothy said:

So, the security process worked, the fraudulent ballots were found, and the perpetrators were caught and charged.    Your point?

You claimed there would be a few "edge cases". Obviously, the attempts at mail-in fraud far outnumber the fraudulent attempts made with other ballot systems.

Will those "security processes" work on a national level with millions of ballots? Do you really thing anyone is going to be comparing signatures on millions of ballots?

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zurg
15 minutes ago, Timothy said:

So, the security process worked, the fraudulent ballots were found, and the perpetrators were caught and charged.    Your point?

The point being the ease and apparent prevalence. 
 

Are you going to claim that every instance of fraud is caught by the security process? And if every instance isn’t caught, that it’s not that big a deal? 
 

YOUR point? 

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RibeyeSteak
Posted (edited)

*Dupe*

Edited by RibeyeSteak

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RibeyeSteak
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Howsithangin said:

Dear God, he can be that stupid.

Watch him go out of his way to prove that he can.

Edited by RibeyeSteak
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