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oki

When poor is richer than middle class.

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oki
Posted (edited)

     When I was small I never thought we where 'poor' to me that was a term that referred to people who wore tattered clothes, didn't get enough to eat, where skeletal thin, and usually lived filthy run down conditions.  I mean, me and my siblings, never went with out, we had cable TV, ate well, that ol' Double Wide trailer was always clean and kept up in good condition.  How could we possibly be poor?Many of the other kids growing up didn't always have these things.  Also, my family didn't qualify for any type of help.  When I once asked my mom why we couldn't get anything her response was simple, we make to much.  Well, let's examine things a bit shall we?  Let's take a look at things...  put a value on various assistance and see how that compares to what is considered middle class shall we?

Let's take a family of three  Mom and dad, one small school age child.  First what is middle class in Wisconsin.  Well, according to PEW research 45K is considered middle.    Now, what is considered low income in the state of Wisconsin, and what does it entitle you to?  $2K a month for a family of three is considered low income by the State of Wisconsin. 

So let's navigate a bit and find out what low income entitles a family to and how much, shall we?

First off, let's talk about food assistance shall we?

Per this link $2146 monthly gross income for a family of three is $509(max)  Keep in mind this does not include school lunch or breakfast.

https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/foodshare/fpl.htm

 

How about housing?

In these parts the way it works is you have to contribute %30 of your ADJUSTED INCOME to rent assistance/subsidized with a minimum of $25 bucks a month.

https://affordablehousingonline.com/housing-search/Wisconsin/Green-Bay/Maple-Leaf-Townhouses/10017539

So what is adjusted income?  Best I can find it's really no different than adjust gross(If this is wrong please tell).

Sooo.... using the cheapest 2 bedroom place in the area (Kaukana can be found on Zillow) as a baseline $600 a month.  The cost to the renter(s) would be $25

 

But utilities you say?  Well, in these parts you largely have two.  Gas/Electric (together) then water.  No info on the example apartment, so assume they are not included.

The cut off for a family of three is $3895 per month.  But, in keeping things the same as much as possible I will stick with the $2000.00 a month.

AVERAGE(MEANING ONE YEAR) for a family of three is going to be about 120-140 a month for gas/electric and water.  So for grins, let's say half $55.00 a month

 

So where are we......509+575+55+2146 = 3285 per month or $39,420 per year. 

What have I forgotten?  Oh yes, school breakfast and lunch...  Lunch is $2.70 full price, 40 cents reduced.  So $2.30 in benefit, $1.60 for breakfast.

https://foodservice.gbaps.org/menus_meal_prices

$3.90 per day x 180 days = $702 for calendar year+ the $39,420 mentioned above = 40,122

O, but that's still a far cry from middle class you say?

 

Insurance and medical care... IE Badger Care.

 http://www.emhandbooks.wisconsin.gov/bcplus/policyfiles/6/48.1.htm

%201 Percent of the Federal Poverty level is well within the base number $2000.00 a month

Or you can get a decent idea with this link.

http://www.emhandbooks.wisconsin.gov/bcplus/policyfiles/3/19/19.3.htm

Soooo.....   a monthly premium of at most 20-30 dollars.

Now, I admit the next calculation is a little tricky, but it's not a stretch to use my own Company plan and what we must pay in premiums which is about 350 as a baseline.

350-30    $320 a month benefit.  I am being generous and not even including what my employer has to kick in.

$320 a month X 12 months = 3840 + 40122 = 43962  BUT, keep in mind the deductibles and out of pocket should certainly count.  Average family plans have individual deductibles in the 1000-1500 per person and 4500-5000(or more)  per family of three.  Best I can tell those aren't issues for Badger Care recipients.   43,962 + 1500 = 45462

Remember that baseline of 45,000 a year for what is considered middle class in Wisconsin?  Feel like I should throw in a mic drop.....

To anyone who thinks I am against assistance to poor, NO, all I am saying is that we should be mindful of how much is given benefit wise and weigh that against what is considered middle class or average.  In doing that then you ask why one family who is at the same true income amount has a better standard of living vs the one who is at the same income amount but the majority of that is coming from assistance.  45K a year in this area for a family of three you won't live high on the hog, but you can make it if your careful. 

What does that break down to?  Two people making 10.80 an hour 80 hour weeks etc.  Also, throw in the fact that the low income family of three will get a much larger tax refund then the family of three making 45K a year.  Might the family of three in the 45,000 a year also qualify for some benefits as well?  Possibly, each benefit has a slightly different scale.  But none the less it shows that after you figure in available benefits provided just by the state of Wisconsin it adds up greatly.  Also, truth be told a huge part of the problem is the fact that the moment you much just over the limit for any monthly benefit you lose it.  While on paper this may sound fine in reality it creates huge gaps.  Instead of the current system of go a few dollars over the monthly limit and lose hundreds in benefits it should be a sliding scale or even you go over $100 and you only lose $20 or you go over $700 and you lose $350 until you are at a point where you break even and only then receive nothing.

 

This is also part of the gap issue.  That being where you make a bit to much to qualify for any benefit, but are literally poorer than the person(s) receiving everything under the son because a large chunk of their expenses are subsidized.  Again, if you think I am against assistance to the low income your wrong.  Only that we need to put true dollar amounts on every last penny and that should be considered at least when figuring out if someone is low income, middle class etc then looking at why those groups do not have as high a living standard as a household who is not on assistance but at the same true dollar amount.

 

Other links

https://madison.com/wsj/business/what-is-the-range-of-income-for-wisconsins-middle-class/article_1868e059-75d1-575b-aadb-d909d1434617.html

https://pocketsense.com/considered-low-income-wisconsin-8281746.html

Edited by oki
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kestrel
5 hours ago, oki said:

     When I was small I never thought we where 'poor' to me that was a term that referred to people who wore tattered clothes, didn't get enough to eat, where skeletal thin, and usually lived filthy run down conditions.  I mean, me and my siblings, never went with out, we had cable TV, ate well, that ol' Double Wide trailer was always clean and kept up in good condition.  How could we possibly be poor?Many of the other kids growing up didn't always have these things.  Also, my family didn't qualify for any type of help.  When I once asked my mom why we couldn't get anything her response was simple, we make to much.  Well, let's examine things a bit shall we?  Let's take a look at things...  put a value on various assistance and see how that compares to what is considered middle class shall we?

Let's take a family of three  Mom and dad, one small school age child.  First what is middle class in Wisconsin.  Well, according to PEW research 45K is considered middle.    Now, what is considered low income in the state of Wisconsin, and what does it entitle you to?  $2K a month for a family of three is considered low income by the State of Wisconsin. 

So let's navigate a bit and find out what low income entitles a family to and how much, shall we?

First off, let's talk about food assistance shall we?

Per this link $2146 monthly gross income for a family of three is $509(max)  Keep in mind this does not include school lunch or breakfast.

https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/foodshare/fpl.htm

 

How about housing?

In these parts the way it works is you have to contribute %30 of your ADJUSTED INCOME to rent assistance/subsidized with a minimum of $25 bucks a month.

https://affordablehousingonline.com/housing-search/Wisconsin/Green-Bay/Maple-Leaf-Townhouses/10017539

So what is adjusted income?  Best I can find it's really no different than adjust gross(If this is wrong please tell).

Sooo.... using the cheapest 2 bedroom place in the area (Kaukana can be found on Zillow) as a baseline $600 a month.  The cost to the renter(s) would be $25

 

But utilities you say?  Well, in these parts you largely have two.  Gas/Electric (together) then water.  No info on the example apartment, so assume they are not included.

The cut off for a family of three is $3895 per month.  But, in keeping things the same as much as possible I will stick with the $2000.00 a month.

AVERAGE(MEANING ONE YEAR) for a family of three is going to be about 120-140 a month for gas/electric and water.  So for grins, let's say half $55.00 a month

 

So where are we......509+575+55+2146 = 3285 per month or $39,420 per year. 

What have I forgotten?  Oh yes, school breakfast and lunch...  Lunch is $2.70 full price, 40 cents reduced.  So $2.30 in benefit, $1.60 for breakfast.

https://foodservice.gbaps.org/menus_meal_prices

$3.90 per day x 180 days = $702 for calendar year+ the $39,420 mentioned above = 40,122

O, but that's still a far cry from middle class you say?

 

Insurance and medical care... IE Badger Care.

 http://www.emhandbooks.wisconsin.gov/bcplus/policyfiles/6/48.1.htm

%201 Percent of the Federal Poverty level is well within the base number $2000.00 a month

Or you can get a decent idea with this link.

http://www.emhandbooks.wisconsin.gov/bcplus/policyfiles/3/19/19.3.htm

Soooo.....   a monthly premium of at most 20-30 dollars.

Now, I admit the next calculation is a little tricky, but it's not a stretch to use my own Company plan and what we must pay in premiums which is about 350 as a baseline.

350-30    $320 a month benefit.  I am being generous and not even including what my employer has to kick in.

$320 a month X 12 months = 3840 + 40122 = 43962  BUT, keep in mind the deductibles and out of pocket should certainly count.  Average family plans have individual deductibles in the 1000-1500 per person and 4500-5000(or more)  per family of three.  Best I can tell those aren't issues for Badger Care recipients.   43,962 + 1500 = 45462

Remember that baseline of 45,000 a year for what is considered middle class in Wisconsin?  Feel like I should throw in a mic drop.....

To anyone who thinks I am against assistance to poor, NO, all I am saying is that we should be mindful of how much is given benefit wise and weigh that against what is considered middle class or average.  In doing that then you ask why one family who is at the same true income amount has a better standard of living vs the one who is at the same income amount but the majority of that is coming from assistance.  45K a year in this area for a family of three you won't live high on the hog, but you can make it if your careful. 

What does that break down to?  Two people making 10.80 an hour 80 hour weeks etc.  Also, throw in the fact that the low income family of three will get a much larger tax refund then the family of three making 45K a year.  Might the family of three in the 45,000 a year also qualify for some benefits as well?  Possibly, each benefit has a slightly different scale.  But none the less it shows that after you figure in available benefits provided just by the state of Wisconsin it adds up greatly.  Also, truth be told a huge part of the problem is the fact that the moment you much just over the limit for any monthly benefit you lose it.  While on paper this may sound fine in reality it creates huge gaps.  Instead of the current system of go a few dollars over the monthly limit and lose hundreds in benefits it should be a sliding scale or even you go over $100 and you only lose $20 or you go over $700 and you lose $350 until you are at a point where you break even and only then receive nothing.

 

This is also part of the gap issue.  That being where you make a bit to much to qualify for any benefit, but are literally poorer than the person(s) receiving everything under the son because a large chunk of their expenses are subsidized.  Again, if you think I am against assistance to the low income your wrong.  Only that we need to put true dollar amounts on every last penny and that should be considered at least when figuring out if someone is low income, middle class etc then looking at why those groups do not have as high a living standard as a household who is not on assistance but at the same true dollar amount.

 

Other links

https://madison.com/wsj/business/what-is-the-range-of-income-for-wisconsins-middle-class/article_1868e059-75d1-575b-aadb-d909d1434617.html

https://pocketsense.com/considered-low-income-wisconsin-8281746.html

Holy Crap Oki! You should have done a Mic drop..this was outstanding!...Thanks!

Kestrel...

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oki
1 hour ago, kestrel said:

Holy Crap Oki! You should have done a Mic drop..this was outstanding!...Thanks!

Kestrel...

 

   Why thank you.  Something people need to keep in mind this is only THE STATE OF WISCONSIN.

This does not include any Federal assistance.  And, there are additional assistance programs in various counties.  I simply chose my local area as much as possible because I am more familiar with things and Green Bay is in the middle for cost of living, income, etc etc.  Hopefully this helps give perspective.

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kestrel
20 minutes ago, oki said:

 

   Why thank you.  Something people need to keep in mind this is only THE STATE OF WISCONSIN.

This does not include any Federal assistance.  And, there are additional assistance programs in various counties.  I simply chose my local area as much as possible because I am more familiar with things and Green Bay is in the middle for cost of living, income, etc etc.  Hopefully this helps give perspective.

Yepper!..I live about 120 miles east of you in Northern Mi..If you're ever over this way touch base and I'll buy a beer or three. (P.S. bring curds:):):)

Kestrel...

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johnnybravo

Those low income people also do not pay federal income tax and some qualify for the earned income tax credit (EITC). 
 

My feelings are that all government benefits need to be added to your gross income for tax purposes. For an example, if you owe a credit card $10,000 but you settle with the company to pay $5,000 back, you have to count the $5,000 you don’t have to pay as income. Same should go for government benefits. Doing this would effectively eliminate the EITC.

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oki
22 hours ago, kestrel said:

Yepper!..I live about 120 miles east of you in Northern Mi..If you're ever over this way touch base and I'll buy a beer or three. (P.S. bring curds:):):)

Kestrel...

Wouldn't be a trip to or from Wisconsin without beer and Cheese Curds.  Or Deer Sausage...

 

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oki
21 hours ago, johnnybravo said:

Those low income people also do not pay federal income tax and some qualify for the earned income tax credit (EITC). 
 

My feelings are that all government benefits need to be added to your gross income for tax purposes. For an example, if you owe a credit card $10,000 but you settle with the company to pay $5,000 back, you have to count the $5,000 you don’t have to pay as income. Same should go for government benefits. Doing this would effectively eliminate the EITC.

   Absolutely, but then that would completely change the narrative of 'poor' and force the question why one family who is technically making $24,000 a year but receives 21K in benefits is not living as well as the same size family who is making/earning 45K.   In the end the same amount.  It forces why the huge difference.... that earnings alone is not the only issue at work.  Oh yeah, that family of three paying 45K in taxes will still have to pay in......   24K for standard deduction+1500 child tax credit, 3600 for insurance premiums.   Sooo...  45,000 - 29,100  A.G.I. of about 15,900  that puts them in the %10 Fed Income Tax bracket. 

https://taxfoundation.org/2020-tax-brackets/

State of Wisconsin is %5

https://www.tax-brackets.org/wisconsintaxtable

1,590 for the Feds (roughly)  and $795 for State(again roughly).

So, in the end that family of three is actually making LESS per year.  The family on assistance will have an A.G.I. of 0 so no taxes paid in at the end.  But a nice hefty refund.

 

 

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kestrel
28 minutes ago, oki said:

Wouldn't be a trip to or from Wisconsin without beer and Cheese Curds.  Or Deer Sausage...

 

There's a place in the UP over by you that has the best curds and smoked fish..I still got two or three tubes of Deer sausage from last year in the freezer (conveniently hidden behind frozen waffles:):):)

Kestrel...

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MontyPython

Mmmmmmmm . . . Deer sausage . . . Heaven on earth.

:tongue:

 

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oki
1 hour ago, kestrel said:

There's a place in the UP over by you that has the best curds and smoked fish..I still got two or three tubes of Deer sausage from last year in the freezer (conveniently hidden behind frozen waffles:):):)

Kestrel...

Yah, what's dat' ya say eh'? 

 

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kestrel
1 minute ago, oki said:

Yah, what's dat' ya say eh'? 

 

Oh nutten eh?

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MontyPython

Nuttin' Honey.

:giggle: 

 

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johnnybravo
37 minutes ago, MontyPython said:

Mmmmmmmm . . . Deer sausage . . . Heaven on earth.

:tongue:

 

My neighbor makes his own and he gives me a few rolls every year. I don’t complain. 

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oki
29 minutes ago, MontyPython said:

Mmmmmmmm . . . Deer sausage . . . Heaven on earth.

:tongue:

 

      Every year at least my buddy or my neighbor gets a Bambi or two, I usually get a couple pounds of Deer Sausage and Deer Bacon. 

The place I go to has people bringing in game meat from 100 miles +.   One irony though, is that if you are smart about it you can actually hunt pretty cheap and even getting one or two smaller Deer will provide you with a lot of very high quality meat.

Surplus rifle(IE a Mosin Nagant)  $140-$160 ish (one time expense)

Scope mount $30-40 (one time expense)

Reasonable Scope about $60-80 (one time expense)

Box of 20 decent rounds about $20

License(resident) about $40

Blaze orange clothing, can be had round around $150 or less(one time expense).

Misc gear such as boots, gloves, warm gear etc(one time expense)  $80

Beer well, that's up to you.

An average doe will net you in the range of 20-30 pounds(or more) in meat

A average Buck 40+ pounds

Compare that to how much steak is a pound.

Once a person has bought there gear the year over year expense isn't much unless you are someone who just has to have new stuff each year, or the best.  Which to be honest is pointless in the woods as a long shot is maybe 70-90 yards, with an average being 30-40 yards.  Other parts of the country where you may be trying to hit a deer on an open plain at two or three football fields, different story.   Also, every year Wisconsin hunters donate 100,000 thousand pounds + of game meat to local pantry's.  But, none the less many people who are having a tough time should definitely try gardening(when possible), hunting and fishing.  Not only will you get very high quality food, it can be much cheaper as well.

 

 

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MontyPython
26 minutes ago, johnnybravo said:

My neighbor makes his own and he gives me a few rolls every year. I don’t complain. 

 

I had a neighbor who always went hunting every year, always bagged at least a couple deer, always butchered it himself, and always made sure I got some steaks & some sausage. Sadly, he passed away a couple years ago.  No more free steaks & sausage.

:( 

 

25 minutes ago, oki said:

      Every year at least my buddy or my neighbor gets a Bambi or two, I usually get a couple pounds of Deer Sausage and Deer Bacon. 

The place I go to has people bringing in game meat from 100 miles +.   One irony though, is that if you are smart about it you can actually hunt pretty cheap and even getting one or two smaller Deer will provide you with a lot of very high quality meat.

Surplus rifle(IE a Mosin Nagant)  $140-$160 ish (one time expense)

Scope mount $30-40 (one time expense)

Reasonable Scope about $60-80 (one time expense)

Box of 20 decent rounds about $20

License(resident) about $40

Blaze orange clothing, can be had round around $150 or less(one time expense).

Misc gear such as boots, gloves, warm gear etc(one time expense)  $80

Beer well, that's up to you.

An average doe will net you in the range of 20-30 pounds(or more) in meat

A average Buck 40+ pounds

Compare that to how much steak is a pound.

Once a person has bought there gear the year over year expense isn't much unless you are someone who just has to have new stuff each year, or the best.  Which to be honest is pointless in the woods as a long shot is maybe 70-90 yards, with an average being 30-40 yards.  Other parts of the country where you may be trying to hit a deer on an open plain at two or three football fields, different story.   Also, every year Wisconsin hunters donate 100,000 thousand pounds + of game meat to local pantry's.  But, none the less many people who are having a tough time should definitely try gardening(when possible), hunting and fishing.  Not only will you get very high quality food, it can be much cheaper as well.

 

 

 

LOL. That's what you call "cheap"? LOL. I see our financial limits are worlds apart.

:shrug:

 

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Severian

My buddy the gunsmith tells me the deer processing place the next town over often has deer they’ve done up that the hunter never came and picked up they sell. I’m gonna have to check that out. 

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oki
3 hours ago, MontyPython said:

 

I had a neighbor who always went hunting every year, always bagged at least a couple deer, always butchered it himself, and always made sure I got some steaks & some sausage. Sadly, he passed away a couple years ago.  No more free steaks & sausage.

:( 

 

 

LOL. That's what you call "cheap"? LOL. I see our financial limits are worlds apart.

:shrug:

 

Initial 'set up costs' rifle, clothing, gear is a skies the limit if you arent smart about it.  Annual costs though is largely license, gasoline, beer, and a little bit of food.  For me at least its about 70 total.  Most years i walk away with at least 20 pounds of vennicin.  At least in these parts steaks are 7 or more bucks a pound.  My best suggestion.. If you know someone who hunts just pay for or split the cost of processing

.

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MontyPython
20 minutes ago, oki said:

Initial 'set up costs' rifle, clothing, gear is a skies the limit if you arent smart about it.  Annual costs though is largely license, gasoline, beer, and a little bit of food.  For me at least its about 70 total.  Most years i walk away with at least 20 pounds of vennicin.  At least in these parts steaks are 7 or more bucks a pound.  My best suggestion.. If you know someone who hunts just pay for or split the cost of processing

.

LOL

I guess I haven't made it clear enough over the years how penniless I am. You're talking about serious expenses for somebody like me. And in any case, having been a city boy my entire life and never been hunting, even if I had that kinda cash laying around, I still have no hunting skills/knowledge/experience/etc.

And unfortunately, I only had one friend who hunted...the guy I mentioned in that earlier post...and he's now dead.

:shrug: 

 

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oki
24 minutes ago, MontyPython said:

LOL

I guess I haven't made it clear enough over the years how penniless I am. You're talking about serious expenses for somebody like me. And in any case, having been a city boy my entire life and never been hunting, even if I had that kinda cash laying around, I still have no hunting skills/knowledge/experience/etc.

And unfortunately, I only had one friend who hunted...the guy I mentioned in that earlier post...and he's now dead.

:shrug: 

 

 

     Yeah, it can be an expense, no question.  BUT, sometimes you also get lucky and make friends with people who will gladly loan you everything from warm clothing to a rifle etc and simply need help thinning the heard.  Or, they just need help dressing(butchering) the Deer and gladly share.  Maybe help dragging the thing a bit to an ATV, perhaps help taking care of the land in the off season, etc.  A lot of land owners are more than happy with this type of arrangement.  Plus, I grew up in the city as well, spent a touch of time on the farm here and there to.  If you are sitting in a stand your usually pretty high up, just stay quit and try not to be to odorous, a blind, smell is everything, stalking/walking, that's tough, the buggers will spot and smell you long before you see them.  There are people around who really need help taking care of their land, or butchering, and will gladly share venison.  Learn where Hunters like to pick up gear, and start touching base with a few.  Like I said many need help taking care of things.  Besides, you have had a lumberjack looking avatar for years, know might be your chance to live the life a little.

 

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MontyPython
55 minutes ago, oki said:

 

     Yeah, it can be an expense, no question.  BUT, sometimes you also get lucky and make friends with people who will gladly loan you everything from warm clothing to a rifle etc and simply need help thinning the heard.  Or, they just need help dressing(butchering) the Deer and gladly share.  Maybe help dragging the thing a bit to an ATV, perhaps help taking care of the land in the off season, etc.  A lot of land owners are more than happy with this type of arrangement.  Plus, I grew up in the city as well, spent a touch of time on the farm here and there to.  If you are sitting in a stand your usually pretty high up, just stay quit and try not to be to odorous, a blind, smell is everything, stalking/walking, that's tough, the buggers will spot and smell you long before you see them.  There are people around who really need help taking care of their land, or butchering, and will gladly share venison.  Learn where Hunters like to pick up gear, and start touching base with a few.  Like I said many need help taking care of things.  Besides, you have had a lumberjack looking avatar for years, know might be your chance to live the life a little.

 

Lumberjack? LOL, nope. I'm pretty much just like all my friends: Either musicians or bikers or both. Not a single hunter among 'em, now that the one hunter friend passed on. Seriously, it's pointless pursuing this. I get my meat just like everybody else I know gets it - From a store, on a styrofoam platter wrapped in plastic. It's true I miss venison, but if I ever went hunting I'd just make a fool of myself and come back empty-handed anyway, after spending a whole day or even weekend miserable. I hate being in "the outdoors", whether camping or hiking or fishing or hunting or anything else. I like my bed, my couch, my TV, my computer, my fridge, my shower, my hot & cold running water & flushing toilet, my stove & oven & microwave, etc etc etc. I definitely ain't no lumberjack, nor Dan'l Boone nor Davy Crockett, nor any other "outdoorsy" type.

No sirree, not me.

:no:

 

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Severian
10 hours ago, MontyPython said:

I definitely ain't no lumberjack

But you're OK!

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MontyPython
11 minutes ago, Severian said:

But you're OK!

LOL

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Magic Rat
Posted (edited)

Everybody talks about when comparing beef and venison is the price.  There is one thing they hardly talk about.  That is that except for very few applications like sausage and jerky, (And a roast if it is done right, and I've only experienced that once.) venison tastes awful and beef doesn't.  It is true, you will pay for a nice marbled beef steak and if you know how to cook it, will taste like heaven.  You won't get a nice marbled venison steak because wild game doesn't stand around, eating grass getting marbled.  So you get a gamey, dried out piece of meat that has the texture of the boot you wore to bag it,  but hey, it's free! 

You can also get this problem if you buy beef from someone who is an amateur when raising the steer.  The ground was okay but the roasts and steaks weren't as good as supermarket beef and that isn't near as good as a well reputed butcher.  We ate most of it, but gave the rest away.  It was a rip off.  I've bought better beef out of the trunk of car.  (Yes, I've done that.  Used to buy cigarettes, perfume, etc. that way too.)

Edited by Magic Rat
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MontyPython
4 hours ago, Magic Rat said:

Everybody talks about when comparing beef and venison is the price.  There is one thing they hardly talk about.  That is that except for very few applications like sausage and jerky, (And a roast if it is done right, and I've only experienced that once.) venison tastes awful and beef doesn't.  It is true, you will pay for a nice marbled beef steak and if you know how to cook it, will taste like heaven.  You won't get a nice marbled venison steak because wild game doesn't stand around, eating grass getting marbled.  So you get a gamey, dried out piece of meat that has the texture of the boot you wore to bag it,  but hey, it's free! 

You can also get this problem if you buy beef from someone who is an amateur when raising the steer.  The ground was okay but the roasts and steaks weren't as good as supermarket beef and that isn't near as good as a well reputed butcher.  We ate most of it, but gave the rest away.  It was a rip off.  I've bought better beef out of the trunk of car.  (Yes, I've done that.  Used to buy cigarettes, perfume, etc. that way too.)

 

True, for the most part. But my hunter friend who recently passed away taught me how to cook a venison steak in a frying pan with water and butter, and it comes out delicious indeed. But yeah, if you try to just broil it or grill it like a perfectly-marbled beef steak, venison just comes out chewy and dry and tasteless.

:) 

 

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oki
6 hours ago, Magic Rat said:

Everybody talks about when comparing beef and venison is the price.  There is one thing they hardly talk about.  That is that except for very few applications like sausage and jerky, (And a roast if it is done right, and I've only experienced that once.) venison tastes awful and beef doesn't.  It is true, you will pay for a nice marbled beef steak and if you know how to cook it, will taste like heaven.  You won't get a nice marbled venison steak because wild game doesn't stand around, eating grass getting marbled.  So you get a gamey, dried out piece of meat that has the texture of the boot you wore to bag it,  but hey, it's free! 

You can also get this problem if you buy beef from someone who is an amateur when raising the steer.  The ground was okay but the roasts and steaks weren't as good as supermarket beef and that isn't near as good as a well reputed butcher.  We ate most of it, but gave the rest away.  It was a rip off.  I've bought better beef out of the trunk of car.  (Yes, I've done that.  Used to buy cigarettes, perfume, etc. that way too.)

 

   Absolutely, you have to know how to cook it.   I can tell this though, having venison sausage or bacon made vs anything store bought there is no comparison.  Price wise it's about the same vs the cheapest pork sausage or bacon.  BUT, there is no comparison in quality. 

 

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