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That_Guy

17-year-old in custody, accused of shooting 3 people, killing 2 during Kenosha protest

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kestrel
4 hours ago, USNRETWIFE said:

Have you guys (yes, I said guys) not figured out yet that it's okay with Bird if a white boy gets the crap beat out of him, knifed or shot, as long as he doesn't interfere with Burn Loot Murder ruining people's businesses, homes, lives.  Over the last year or so, her posts have gotten so monotonous and I now have her on mute.

Can I steal that? (Burn Loot and Murder) Wait a minute! I'm asking if I can STEAL SOMETHING?..Crap there goes all my Street Cred!

Kestrel...

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kestrel
3 hours ago, Oathtaker said:

At the very least he should have to do some anger management classes.....

He wasn't mad..shoot he even called the EMS (full time) after he shot the first thug that attacked him....I'm sure he was just getting ready to graduate High School and was really turning his life around..and he probably found that gun...and was on his way to turn it in to the proper authority...

Kestrel...

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kestrel
2 hours ago, Confessor said:

He was hunting idiots. He may have gone over his limit though...

I thought the bag limit was five? Damn its tough to keep track of all the different hunting rules for varmints in these various States...

Kestrel...

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kestrel
3 minutes ago, Severian said:

Notice the only person the cops can find and prosecute is one lone person fighting back not the th sounds of violent rioters.

Whaaaaaaaat????

K..

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JerryL
4 hours ago, Dean Adam Smithee said:

Milwaukee Journal Sentinel is reporting that the 17 YO shooter is from Illinois. That's going to complicate things considerably.

FOR ONE, If it turns out he went out of his way, especially across a state line, and even without original intent to shoot someone but to at least "start something", then the whole self-defense argument evaporates. And it's worth noting that NEITHER WI nor Illinois are "stand your ground" states.

FOR TWO, Illinois requires a Firearm Owners ID Card (FOID) for ANY firearm even a rifle. Only way to get a FOID if you're under 21 is for a parent to sign for it and assume "Liability". Oooh, I'll bet his parents in Illinois are crapping concrete blocks right now.

FOR THREE, Did he maybe buy the rifle in WI?  My understanding  - I could be wrong - is that under federal law it's only legal to buy ANY firearm out-of-state if that same sale would have been legal in the person's 'home' state. But I'm a bit hazy on this. Can anyone clarify this particular aspect? And/or the aspect of a MINOR crossing a state line for this?

 

 

I see you have your super secret squirrel Kreskin hat on again.

"Start something?"  If I went to my neighbors to help DEFEND their house and their lives from a pack of roving, rabid animals, would I have gone there to "start something?"

BLM and Antifa "started something" months ago and they have been allowed to attack and loot and burn and kill pretty much unimpeded for months.  People, who have been incredibly tolerant up until now, FINALLY start fighting back and protecting their property from roving bands of feral animals and where are you?  Immediately jumping in to assign a motive to someone who dared defend himself with ZERO knowledge of who he is and why he was there.

Have you seen the video where one of the animals threw a Molotov cocktail at him?  Did you see the video where the mob flat out states they are on their way to "Car Source" to burn it down, which is where the first animal took the shot to the head?  Did you see the punk beat him with a skateboard?  Did you see that the guy who was shot in the arm was armed, himself?

Tell you what, national ROE should be that any band of roving thugs should be engaged with deadly force the moment they cross the property line...by citizens for private property and by law enforcement for public property.  All you have to do is present a montage of television clips to show a reasonable belief that your life and property were in imminent danger.  

Put an end to this crap now.   

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Specs
43 minutes ago, kestrel said:

Can I steal that? (Burn Loot and Murder) Wait a minute! I'm asking if I can STEAL SOMETHING?..Crap there goes all my Street Cred!

Kestrel...

Hell I already stole it. I don't care about my street cred. 

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Magic Rat

If he is,  in fact 17, he should  not have been there.  I don't think it is legal for a minor to own or carry a weapon when unsupervised either.  I support individuals and neighbors to patrol and protect their neighborhood.  Hell, I support volunteers getting together to patrol other neighborhoods but I don't support breaking the law to do it. 

Once he was there and assaulted, he had the right to defend himself so I don't think it is murder but manslaughter seems appropriate even if he is a minor.  He was irresponsible and dangerous.  He was too  immature to legaly carry a weapon but he is old enough to realize that he is not The Punisher and he should still face a jury and potentially be punished.

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kestrel
Just now, Magic Rat said:

If he is,  in fact 17, he should  not have been there.  I don't think it is legal for a minor to own or carry a weapon when unsupervised either.  I support individuals and neighbors to patrol and protect their neighborhood.  Hell, I support volunteers getting together to patrol other neighborhoods but I don't support breaking the law to do it. 

Once he was there and assaulted, he had the right to defend himself so I don't think it is murder but manslaughter seems appropriate even if he is a minor.  He was irresponsible and dangerous.  He was too  immature to legaly carry a weapon but he is old enough to realize that he is not The Punisher and he should still face a jury and potentially be punished.

If he is,  in fact 17, he should  not have been there.  I don't think it is legal for a minor to own or carry a weapon when unsupervised either. 

I went into the Military 2days after I turned 17 and did 13 months in SEA and I was definitely "Unsupervised" while a "Minor":):):) It Would have been nice to have the "Boss" with me and my doggy in the Bushes...Unfortunately he was in a Huey way up there somewhere and telling Lt the best way to get us all killed (at least that's the way it seemed)..in these times kids don't seem to leave the house and get their own cell phone plans till they're thirty five..it was different times I guess...I guess we'll get the full story eventually..i watched several vids of this incident and it all looked like self defense to me...

Kestrel...

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Severian
48 minutes ago, kestrel said:

Whaaaaaaaat????

K..

Thousands. Damned tablet keyboard.

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JerryL
2 minutes ago, grimreefer said:

Whether the kid was right or wrong a lot of us have been warning that this is all going to escalate, especially after the rioters/mob started carrying weapons/guns for such things as blocking traffic. Unfortunately, the left seems adamant on upping the carnage so this will only be the very tip of the iceberg. Local democrats have allowed, if not encouraged, the violence and mayhem so their hands are drenched in blood as far as I'm concerned. :2cents:

This.

It has become glaringly obvious that the left, both at the national level and at the local level that controls the overwhelming majority of these crazed hotspots, is not going to do anything to protect innocent citizens or their property. 

You have the moron governor of Wisconsin who basically poured a 5-gallon jerry can of gasoline on a smoldering fire pit with his comments on the Blake shooting.  "The police are evil racists and they suck.  Please burn down my State for racial justice."  Democrat city governments do nothing, time and time again, unless it is join in the mayhem.

I can't, and won't, blame people for trying to defend their lives, livelihoods, and property from marauding animals bent on destruction.  I don't care if they are 17 or 70.  The average age of the crew on the aircraft carrier I served on, with nearly 5000 people, was around 19.  Plenty of 17-year olds out there proudly serving and defending our country.

I know that they WILL do it, but a government that abandons the law in favor of a feral mob should not be allowed to then come back and enforce the law on any citizen who defends themselves against that mob.  

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Magic Rat
Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, kestrel said:

If he is,  in fact 17, he should  not have been there.  I don't think it is legal for a minor to own or carry a weapon when unsupervised either. 

I went into the Military 2days after I turned 17 and did 13 months in SEA and I was definitely "Unsupervised" while a "Minor":):):) It Would have been nice to have the "Boss" with me and my doggy in the Bushes...Unfortunately he was in a Huey way up there somewhere and telling Lt the best way to get us all killed (at least that's the way it seemed)..in these times kids don't seem to leave the house and get their own cell phone plans till they're thirty five..it was different times I guess...I guess we'll get the full story eventually..i watched several vids of this incident and it all looked like self defense to me...

Kestrel...

I was 17 when I went in the USMC too.  Do you want to compare the current generation of 17 year olds with yours and mine?  Is it even possible?

Either way, is it legal for him to own or carry a weapon,  unsupervised, in Wisconsin?   If indeed he brought the rifle in from Illinois,  is transporting firearms across state lines legal as a minor?

Edited by Magic Rat

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kestrel
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Magic Rat said:

I was 17 when I went in the USMC too.  Do you want to compare the current generation of 17 year olds with yours and mine?  Is it even possible?

Either way, is it legal for him to own or carry a weapon,  unsupervised, in Wisconsin?   If indeed he brought the rifle in from Illinois,  is transporting firearms across state lines legal as a minor?

Do you want to compare the current generation of 17 year olds with yours and mine?  I think I would...I KNOW there are a few cuz I talk to them (afghan/Iraq K-9 guys one is even a Marine:):):)..and what I can say for sure is that if that had been one of these guys on the street in Kenosha (or you and me) there would sure as hell been more than two KIA and one WIA...but yeah I think they're around and will be up for whatever it takes, that is if the VA don't kill them all off with SSRI's, (20/day Veteran Suicides)...These kids have told me some horrific tales (you know the kind of stories you don't tell your Family or non vet friends) and they all look so young to me...till you look at their eyes..Nuff said.

As to the legal stuff?...no clue... But a question:  Is the right to Free Speech or Religion, or Assembly dependent on age? I don't think so..I'm not a Lawyer but I think that the Constitution says these "Rights" are "inherent" in the People. Period.

Kestrel...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by kestrel

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Magic Rat
13 minutes ago, kestrel said:

Do you want to compare the current generation of 17 year olds with yours and mine?  I think I would...I KNOW there are a few cuz I talk to them (afghan/Iraq K-9 guys one is even a Marine:):):)..and what I can say for sure is that if that had been one of these guys on the street in Kenosha (or you and me) there would sure as hell been more than two KIA and one WIA...but yeah I think they're around and will be up for whatever it takes, that is if the VA don't kill them all off with SSRI's, (20/day Veteran Suicides)...These kids have told me some horrific tales (you know the kind of stories you don't tell your Family or non vet friends) and they all look so young to me...till you look at their eyes..Nuff said.

As to the legal stuff?...no clue... But a question:  Is the right to Free Speech or Religion, or Assembly dependent on age? I don't think so..I'm not a Lawyer but I think that the Constitution says these "Rights" are "inherent" in the People. Period.

Kestrel...

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure we can compare this untrained kid to a Soldier or Marine.  I think he read too many comic books and is playing vigilante superhero.

To answer your question, it actually is.  Kids lose free speech in school all the time and I don't believe a minor can apply for a permit to stage a demonstration.  Hell, I don't even think a minor can apply for a garage sale permit in my county.

I couldn't join the USMC at 17 without mom and dad's permission and a diploma, so that even has limitations.  My point is that I don't support breaking the to "enforce" it and if this kid that, he should face the music.

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JerryL
6 minutes ago, Magic Rat said:

I'm not sure we can compare this untrained kid to a Soldier or Marine.  I think he read too many comic books and is playing vigilante superhero.

To answer your question, it actually is.  Kids lose free speech in school all the time and I don't believe a minor can apply for a permit to stage a demonstration.  Hell, I don't even think a minor can apply for a garage sale permit in my county.

I couldn't join the USMC at 17 without mom and dad's permission and a diploma, so that even has limitations.  My point is that I don't support breaking the to "enforce" it and if this kid that, he should face the music.

What happens when "law enforcement" is either directed not to enforce, or chooses not to enforce, "the law?"  What happens when elected officials say that your property, your livelihood, and, potentially, your life, aren't worth protecting?  Are people just supposed to sit back and take it?  

While he very well could have "read to many comic books and is playing the vigilante superhero," what I have read is that he was a part of an organized group that was defending a specific car dealership.  Why?  Because other car dealerships had been burned to the ground with their inventory destroyed.  We don't know who invited him to help, how he got there, or with whom (at least I don't).  You could be off base in your assessment.

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kestrel
1 minute ago, Magic Rat said:

I'm not sure we can compare this untrained kid to a Soldier or Marine.  I think he read too many comic books and is playing vigilante superhero.

To answer your question, it actually is.  Kids lose free speech in school all the time and I don't believe a minor can apply for a permit to stage a demonstration.  Hell, I don't even think a minor can apply for a garage sale permit in my county.

I couldn't join the USMC at 17 without mom and dad's permission and a diploma, so that even has limitations.  My point is that I don't support breaking the to "enforce" it and if this kid that, he should face the music.

"I think he read too many comic books and is playing vigilante superhero". Why do you say this? did you see him calling EMS (full time) after he shot the first guy (who tossed a Molotov at him) in the head ..You might be right about this kid but given what I know at this point I'll give him the benefit of the doubt (if not a Steak)

My point is that I don't support breaking the to "enforce" it and if this kid that, he should face the music.(I'm assuming you meant to type "The Law")

Fair Point Magic, and he may have "Read too many comic books" or maybe he's like some others who stepped out of their comfort zone at 17yrs old...know anyone that crazy?  :popcorn2: I can think of two right off the bat!:high5:

Kestrel...

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Magic Rat
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, JerryL said:

What happens when "law enforcement" is either directed not to enforce, or chooses not to enforce, "the law?"  What happens when elected officials say that your property, your livelihood, and, potentially, your life, aren't worth protecting?  Are people just supposed to sit back and take it?  

While he very well could have "read to many comic books and is playing the vigilante superhero," what I have read is that he was a part of an organized group that was defending a specific car dealership.  Why?  Because other car dealerships had been burned to the ground with their inventory destroyed.  We don't know who invited him to help, how he got there, or with whom (at least I don't).  You could be off base in your assessment.

Like I said in my first post on this thread, I support civilian security posts and patrols so you aren't really arguing with me.  It is what I expect when those paid to enforce the law aren't doing it. 

I very well could be off base, but some important questions need answered.  Why was he there, armed?  Is it legal for a minor to provide security outside his own home?   If he is part of something organized, where are the rest of this "organization" that recruits underaged members, and then allows them to become separated from this patrol?  It doesn't sound too well trained or organized to me.

We will see but on what I see from here, he should never have been by himself in he first place.

Edited by Magic Rat

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Magic Rat
10 minutes ago, kestrel said:

"I think he read too many comic books and is playing vigilante superhero". Why do you say this? did you see him calling EMS (full time) after he shot the first guy (who tossed a Molotov at him) in the head ..You might be right about this kid but given what I know at this point I'll give him the benefit of the doubt (if not a Steak)

My point is that I don't support breaking the to "enforce" it and if this kid that, he should face the music.(I'm assuming you meant to type "The Law")

Fair Point Magic, and he may have "Read too many comic books" or maybe he's like some others who stepped out of their comfort zone at 17yrs old...know anyone that crazy?  :popcorn2: I can think of two right off the bat!:high5:

Kestrel...

Yeah, we shall see.

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kestrel
Just now, Magic Rat said:

Yeah, we shall see.

True Dat...when were you "in"?...(70-74)

Kestrel...

 

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Magic Rat
8 minutes ago, kestrel said:

True Dat...when were you "in"?...(70-74)

Kestrel...

 

86-92.  Very little combat experience though.

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JerryL
7 minutes ago, Magic Rat said:

Like I said in my first post on this thread, I support civilian security posts and patrols so you aren't really arguing with me.  It is what I expect when those paid to enforce the law aren't doing it. 

I very well could be off base, but some important questions need answered.  Why was he there, armed?  Is it legal for a minor to provide security outside his own home?   If he is part of something organized, where are the rest of this "organization" that recruits underaged members, and then allows them to become separated from this patrol?  It doesn't sound too well trained or organized to me.

We will see but on what I see from here, he should never have been by himself in he first place.

I wasn't trying to argue with you at all.  I just asked a question.  Are you saying that anyone under the age of 18 should not be a part of the posts and patrols?"

Agreed on the need to answer a lot of questions.

Where has it been shown that he was there "by himself?"  All the video I have seen follows him and his altercation and most of that is after he left Car Source.  There could have been others at the dealership, as well.  Like I said, I read he was part of a "defense" of the car lot.  More of those questions that need answered.

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Magic Rat
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, JerryL said:

I wasn't trying to argue with you at all.  I just asked a question.  Are you saying that anyone under the age of 18 should not be a part of the posts and patrols?"

Agreed on the need to answer a lot of questions.

Where has it been shown that he was there "by himself?"  All the video I have seen follows him and his altercation and most of that is after he left Car Source.  There could have been others at the dealership, as well.  Like I said, I read he was part of a "defense" of the car lot.  More of those questions that need answered.

I am saying that the law should be followed when you are trying to to enforce the law or you are helping to contribute to the chaos.  I don't think most 17 year olds are prepared or mature enough to control themselves in a situation like this.  Unless properly trained, I don't really think an 18 or 19 year old is either, but the law allows them to own rifles in most states soi it isn't illegal with them.

I have read, and the only videos I have seen have indicated he was alone but I'll take your word for it.  If he wasn't, where were his compatriots in the videos And why weren't they protecting him from the mob?

Edited by Magic Rat

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Howsithangin
8 hours ago, Ladybird said:

I don't know what kind of gun he has, but it appears to be a rifle. I don't believe 17 year olds are legally permitted to carry weapons, even if it's a hunting rifle, when he's not engaged in hunting activities.

Deny him the ability to defend himself.  Nice 

 

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kestrel
17 minutes ago, Magic Rat said:

86-92.  Very little combat experience though.

Don't matter too much..You know which end wags and which end bites...

K...

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