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Roll Over, Beethoven — Vox Says You’re a White Supremacist Now

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pepperonikkid

Roll Over, Beethoven — Vox Says You’re a White Supremacist Now

 

https://spectator.org/

by HANNAH ROWAN

September 16, 2020, 5:10 PM

 

Article:

 

Not a very nice way to celebrate the composer’s 250th birthday.

 

ccording to Vox, Beethoven’s Fifth Symphony is now a symbol of white supremacy and classism.

As Beethoven’s Fifth itself would say: “Dun-dun-dun-DUNNNNN.”

Those famous four notes are known as the “Fate motif,” and they’re an accurate theme song for “The 5th on Pop,” a collaborative podcast between Vox and members of the New York Philharmonic, which in its latest episode claims that Beethoven’s Fifth is all about wealthy white men showing off their cultural importance and shutting everyone else out of the concert hall.

Now, you might have some questions about this. First off, didn’t Beethoven write the Fifth as he was going deaf, which makes it a pretty impressive personal triumph? And don’t people still listen to it because, frankly, it’s a banger? 

Unfortunately not. For women, LGBTQ+ people, and people of color, the podcast’s introductory notes say, “Beethoven’s symphony may be predominantly a reminder of classical music’s history of exclusion and elitism.”

Host Charlie Harding starts off the podcast on a derisive note, questioning the symphony’s inclusion on the Voyager spacecraft’s Golden Record: “What are they going to think of us? When some alien civilization discovers this golden record and we greet them with ‘Dun-dun-dun-DUNNN’ … Are we the conquering intergalactic empire?” 

Co-host Nate Sloan continues, “Not everyone feels that Beethoven is the best representation of our species’ collective achievement. For a lot of people, Beethoven’s Fifth Symphony doesn’t represent triumph and resilience but elitism and exclusion.” 

It seems pretty obvious where we’re headed — toward an attempt to exclude Beethoven from the canon — but I decided to hear them out. How so? Well, the hosts explain, before Beethoven, people participated in musical performances: they clapped and gasped and yelled at Mozart’s premieres, for example. After him, they listened in silence, in a sort of “silent communion” with the music.

Wow, you might think, they must have thought Beethoven was really good, if he struck them speechless. 

Well, no, Harding and Sloan explain, actually a culture of exclusion emerged wherein wealthy white men came up with all sorts of rules to police people’s conduct in the concert hall and to oppress them outside of it. 

As for concert etiquette, the “5th on Pop” co-hosts harp on old debates about when you should clap and when you shouldn’t, when you can leave your seat and when that’s disruptive, what you should wear, and when you should unwrap your lozenges.

Anecdotally, in one year as a music critic in New York, I ran up against every one of these issues: people clapping at the wrong time and getting up to leave between movements because they thought the concert was over, people climbing over me to get out of a crowded row of seats, people (gasp) wearing T-shirts to concerts, and, during a cold outbreak, a concert during which the wrapper-rustlers were louder than a soft section of a violin solo onstage. This stuff happens, and it can be helpful to have guidelines and “symphony concert etiquette guides” in the program, especially considering that in 2020 most of us are rookies at this classical music thing. And it’s totally fine to wear jeans and a sweater, by the way. I’ve done it; I survived.

 

 

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Ticked@TinselTown

A pox on VOX and their never ending imbecile rantings.

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Howsithangin

Vox.  That's all that needs to be said

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JerryL

WTF is Vox?

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Ladybird

I thought it was the 9th he composed while deaf.

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Severian
8 minutes ago, Ladybird said:

I thought it was the 9th he composed while deaf.

It was. He was deaf as a post by then.

Oh, and the Vox article is dumb dumb dumb dummmmmmbbbb.

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Martin
8 minutes ago, Ladybird said:

I thought it was the 9th he composed while deaf.

Beethoven's hearing began to deteriorate as early as 1800.  His Fifth Symphony, referred to in the Vox nonsense, was written between 1804 and 1808.

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LeansToTheRight

Just another example of people LOOKING/SEARCHING for ways to feel oppressed, because in reality/actuality they are not.  F’ing pathetic.

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zurg

So I guess a large segment of those who consider themselves POC’s won’t be listening to Beethoven. And I should care because...?

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Magic Rat
16 hours ago, Ladybird said:

I thought it was the 9th he composed while deaf.

 It is certainly the best musical piece ever written.  Although I am sure you would probably argue, along with Biden that Cardi B's WAP has it's merits and should be considered timeless as well.

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Severian

There is a concerted effort to tear down and destroy every single great accomplishment of the human race, especially if "whites" did it, but it goes beyond that. Mathematics has allowed humans to understand, predict, and control nature, so it's tainted by white racism. And on and on.

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Ladybird
4 hours ago, Magic Rat said:

 It is certainly the best musical piece ever written.  Although I am sure you would probably argue, along with Biden that Cardi B's WAP has it's merits and should be considered timeless as well.

I was driving back from Cape Cod, enjoying (enraptured by actually) the Ode to Joy, which was playing on the local station. At the end of it, the announcer said it was in celebration of Nelson Mandela's release from prison.  It's a moment I from then on associated with that movement, which previously made me think of Malcolm McDowell in a bubble tub with a naked girl. Truly a joyous moment..

For the record, I wouldn't know a Cardi B from a Lady Gaga if I ran into them on the street. 

Edited by Ladybird

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Martin
7 hours ago, zurg said:

So I guess a large segment of those who consider themselves POC’s won’t be listening to Beethoven. And I should care because...?

You should care because they not only decline to listen to Beethoven, they want to prevent you from doing so.  They will argue that it is racist to have a symphony or opera season which includes only works by white composers.  There are very few black composers of symphonies or operas and they are obscure compared to Verdi, Bach, Mozart, and Wagner.  But, they will find some to fill the quota rather than risk what they dare not risk, a phony racism accusation.  

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Ladybird
20 minutes ago, Martin said:

You should care because they not only decline to listen to Beethoven, they want to prevent you from doing so.  They will argue that it is racist to have a symphony or opera season which includes only works by white composers.  There are very few black composers of symphonies or operas and they are obscure compared to Verdi, Bach, Mozart, and Wagner.  But, they will find some to fill the quota rather than risk what they dare not risk, a phony racism accusation.  

They could start here - https://pipedreams.publicradio.org/articles/africanamericancomposers.shtml

 

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zurg
22 minutes ago, Martin said:

You should care because they not only decline to listen to Beethoven, they want to prevent you from doing so.  They will argue that it is racist to have a symphony or opera season which includes only works by white composers.  There are very few black composers of symphonies or operas and they are obscure compared to Verdi, Bach, Mozart, and Wagner.  But, they will find some to fill the quota rather than risk what they dare not risk, a phony racism accusation.  

Actually, that is true. I’ve already seen the effect (pre-covid when orchestras were performing) to some extent except as a “woke” gesture and not mandated. If stuff like this were mandated, they’d lose audience. 

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zurg
37 minutes ago, Ladybird said:

It’s still minuscule. Also, when it comes to classical music, orchestral music, dominated by works for strings, is the absolute foundation.

The most fantastic music in my opinion are the various violin concertos and sonatas and other works for violin. In particular, the major violin concertos by Brahms, Sibelius, Tchaikovsky and Mendelssohn. There’s really no substitute. Where are the black soloists? Where are the black concertmasters? I’m not sayin there aren’t any but they don’t stand out. 

The classical music arena is weird in this regard: most people in the field are liberal/leftwing minded “woke” types, BUT when it comes to THEIR auditions and THEIR judgments of who’s good, these are made entirely based on the sound coming out of the instrument. It’s as much merit-based as almost anything can be. It’s totally anti-woke in that regard. There’s no affirmative action in classical music performance. (There may be in school admissions, but not in who gets the seat in the orchestra or who gets the solo tour.) 

If blacks want to make it to the top echelons in classical music, they have only one option, to step up their game. That’s how the system there works today. Although if leftist politicians get to decide, they’ll force a change there too, and destroy past practices, that’s for sure. 

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Ladybird
13 minutes ago, zurg said:

It’s still minuscule. Also, when it comes to classical music, orchestral music, dominated by works for strings, is the absolute foundation.

The most fantastic music in my opinion are the various violin concertos and sonatas and other works for violin. In particular, the major violin concertos by Brahms, Sibelius, Tchaikovsky and Mendelssohn. There’s really no substitute. Where are the black soloists? Where are the black concertmasters? I’m not sayin there aren’t any but they don’t stand out. 

The classical music arena is weird in this regard: most people in the field are liberal/leftwing minded “woke” types, BUT when it comes to THEIR auditions and THEIR judgments of who’s good, these are made entirely based on the sound coming out of the instrument. It’s as much merit-based as almost anything can be. It’s totally anti-woke in that regard. There’s no affirmative action in classical music performance. (There may be in school admissions, but not in who gets the seat in the orchestra or who gets the solo tour.) 

If blacks want to make it to the top echelons in classical music, they have only one option, to step up their game. That’s how the system there works today. Although if leftist politicians get to decide, they’ll force a change there too, and destroy past practices, that’s for sure. 

What are you basing this on? Are you saying there's never been racial prejudice in classical music and ballet?

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zurg
3 minutes ago, Ladybird said:

What are you basing this on? Are you saying there's never been racial prejudice in classical music and ballet?

You need to highlight the salient part of my post that talks about their woke versus anti-woke behaviors. 

(Also, I made no reference to ballet. At all. I won’t address that field, because I’m not qualified to do so. While ballet uses classical music often for the performances, the two fields aren’t the same. Lumping classical music and ballet into the same bucket is like saying everyone from Africa is the same.)

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Ladybird
17 minutes ago, zurg said:

You need to highlight the salient part of my post that talks about their woke versus anti-woke behaviors. 

(Also, I made no reference to ballet. At all. I won’t address that field, because I’m not qualified to do so. While ballet uses classical music often for the performances, the two fields aren’t the same. Lumping classical music and ballet into the same bucket is like saying everyone from Africa is the same.)

The people who hold the purse strings and make decisions about employment, about what gets promoted, etc may be one in the same.  You claim "there's no discrimination in classical music performance".  What do you base this conclusion on? Have you spoken to any black musicians, whether they are vocalists or instrumentalists, in the classical filed?

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Natural Selection
5 minutes ago, Ladybird said:

The people who hold the purse strings and make decisions about employment, about what gets promoted, etc may be one in the same.  You claim "there's no discrimination in classical music performance".  What do you base this conclusion on? Have you spoken to any black musicians, whether they are vocalists or instrumentalists, in the classical filed?

I've never met a black person interested in classical music.

Plenty in jazz, though.

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Ladybird
24 minutes ago, Natural Selection said:

I've never met a black person interested in classical music.

Plenty in jazz, though.

I have. I grew up in it. I will say, I wish there were more, as well as more interested in jazz as well, instead of Pop and the hippity-hoppity. 

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Magic Rat
1 hour ago, Ladybird said:

The people who hold the purse strings and make decisions about employment, about what gets promoted, etc may be one in the same.  You claim "there's no discrimination in classical music performance".  What do you base this conclusion on? Have you spoken to any black musicians, whether they are vocalists or instrumentalists, in the classical filed?

The "people who hold the purse strings" in classical music, at least here in the US are interested wealthy people who donate their money and serve on boards which decide where their money and the public's money goes.  These boards hire professionals to manage the local symphonies and orchestras.  Race discrimination probably exists but I am sure it is rare.  Unless of course, you consider Koreans and Japanese "white".

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zurg
2 hours ago, zurg said:

The classical music arena is weird in this regard: most people in the field are liberal/leftwing minded “woke” types, BUT when it comes to THEIR auditions and THEIR judgments of who’s good, these are made entirely based on the sound coming out of the instrument. It’s as much merit-based as almost anything can be. It’s totally anti-woke in that regard. There’s no affirmative action in classical music performance. (There may be in school admissions, but not in who gets the seat in the orchestra or who gets the solo tour.) 

LB - please read the above again. I didn’t say “there’s no discrimination in classical music”. I said “there’s no affirmative action in classical music”. 

The point I’m trying to make above is that the people in the field of classical music are predominantly leftwing, politically speaking, and thus support BLM etc (thus they’re “woke”). But, when auditioning for roles in orchestra, performance groups, solo performances, etc., the field as a whole relies on “sound coming from the instrument” as the rule and not “sound maker personal attributes”. Many auditions are even behind a curtain - anonymous. This aims to be totally performance-based, merit-based. So it’s “anti-woke”. 

Do you have evidence in classical music (instrumental, orchestral, ensamble, solo - not going to far from that definition) that discrimination actually exists? That better black players are left off in favor of worse whites or Asians? That is extremely hard to believe. There’s no systemic bias in judging. There may be a disparity in outcomes by race, but hey, get your act together and have a great audition. 

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Magic Rat
4 hours ago, Ladybird said:

I was driving back from Cape Cod, enjoying (enraptured by actually) the Ode to Joy, which was playing on the local station. At the end of it, the announcer said it was in celebration of Nelson Mandela's release from prison.  It's a moment I from then on associated with that movement, which previously made me think of Malcolm McDowell in a bubble tub with a naked girl. Truly a joyous moment..

For the record, I wouldn't know a Cardi B from a Lady Gaga if I ran into them on the street. 

I think that is when music is most useful; a vehicle to aid in emotions.  Like you said, Ode to Joy is one that helped you celebrate the release of a terrorist.  Some use other pieces salve a broken heart or others have hymns to celebrate the birth or the ascension of Christ.  That is why music is a great thing to all people.  You don't have to be a "sophisticated" snobby ass hole to love it.

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RedSoloCup

Vox is a pox.

Irrelevant libtard site no one with a brain takes seriously. Except for Biden voters. 

Edited by RedSoloCup

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