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pepperonikkid

Trump Won the Battle Against Coronavirus, Bigly

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Joe the Pagan

The two million dead was from a faulty computer program.  Other scientist using the program found it giving different results when the same data was put in.  It was written in FORTRAN, and later converted to c/c++ using an interpreter program.  They put the program on Git-Hub, and then re-uploaded a less buggy version.  With Git-Hub the old version is kept.  For some reason they removed it.  So the only version available is the modified version. 

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Dean Adam Smithee
2 hours ago, Joe the Pagan said:

The two million dead was from a faulty computer program.  Other scientist using the program found it giving different results when the same data was put in.  It was written in FORTRAN, and later converted to c/c++ using an interpreter program.  They put the program on Git-Hub, and then re-uploaded a less buggy version.  With Git-Hub the old version is kept.  For some reason they removed it.  So the only version available is the modified version. 

Well, there's your problem. Old-school programs like Fortran and Cobol are solid, Rock solid, they've stood the test of time.(Fortran '77 on an IBM 360/370 here)

In the "Industrial" world, I dislike C-ish programs;  The compiler ALLOWS you to make mistakes.

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Joe the Pagan
2 hours ago, Dean Adam Smithee said:

Well, there's your problem. Old-school programs like Fortran and Cobol are solid, Rock solid, they've stood the test of time.(Fortran '77 on an IBM 360/370 here)

In the "Industrial" world, I dislike C-ish programs;  The compiler ALLOWS you to make mistakes.

I wonder how close it was to being a web browser.

b01ebee09fcd012f2fe600163e41dd5b

Edited by Joe the Pagan

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Timothy

We have the 12th highest number of deaths per capita worldwide.  

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MontyPython
3 hours ago, Timothy said:

We have the 12th highest number of deaths per capita worldwide.  

 

Not surprising considering how the numbers are deliberately artificially inflated with everything from traffic crashes to falling down stairs to flu and everything in between. Have you seen the "95% drop" in influenza deaths this year, LOL? Gee, where do you suppose those thousands of death were listed instead?

 :whistle: 

 

 

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Timothy
20 hours ago, MontyPython said:

 

Not surprising considering how the numbers are deliberately artificially inflated with everything from traffic crashes to falling down stairs to flu and everything in between. Have you seen the "95% drop" in influenza deaths this year, LOL? Gee, where do you suppose those thousands of death were listed instead?

 :whistle: 

 

 

Since steps to limit the coronavirus also limit the flu, it's not at all a surprise that flu deaths are way down.

As I've pointed out plenty of times for you to see it, the increase in deaths from all causes since the pandemic started is greater than the number of declared Covid deaths, suggesting that the Covid deaths are being undercounted, not overcounted.

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zurg

Finally someone tells the truth about Trump’s COVID success. 

He also followed the tenth amendment by leaving to the states what belongs to them. See lefties, you were entirely free to do your lockdowns as desired, and Trump let you do it your way. Trump even let you riot and kill and destroy, because the action to handle them belongs first to the states. 

Contrast with what Biden’s superiors will tell him to do: issue federal rules and mandates with high penalties. In other words, take away states’ and individual rights - precisely in opposition to the constitution.

What this teaches us is that leftists in America 1) don’t value or follow the constitution, 2) don’t care about the citizens, 3) only care about their own power over the citizens, elite thinkers that they are, so deserving of our praise, or else, like the CCP. 

This won’t end well, you leftist idiots. 

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MontyPython
1 hour ago, Timothy said:

Since steps to limit the coronavirus also limit the flu, it's not at all a surprise that flu deaths are way down.

As I've pointed out plenty of times for you to see it, the increase in deaths from all causes since the pandemic started is greater than the number of declared Covid deaths, suggesting that the Covid deaths are being undercounted, not overcounted.

 

But since those steps are being widely reported to have failed to limit the coronavirus, resulting in an alleged huge surge, where is the corresponding huge surge in flu deaths?

:scratch: 

 

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Timothy
On 11/22/2020 at 11:56 PM, MontyPython said:

 

But since those steps are being widely reported to have failed to limit the coronavirus, resulting in an alleged huge surge, where is the corresponding huge surge in flu deaths?

:scratch: 

 

Limiting the virus isn't all or nothing.  It has both been far worse than it had to be, and a lot better than it could have been.

Without all the steps taken, the impact would have been far worse.  Probably at least a million deaths, if not 2-3 million.  The lockdowns gave us time to develop treatments to lower the death rate and prevent our medical system from being overwhelmed.

At the same time, it's been far worse than it had to be, both in terms of deaths and the economic impact.  Many countries have had a far better outcome.  Notably Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Germany, and Canada have had a fraction of the cases and deaths per capita.  Economic and reopening policies have been consistent or always coherent (why are bars open in some places but not elementary schools?  Why haven't we moved more things, especially schools, outside?)

And the news is very mixed right now.  The mid term outlook with vaccines is very good, but the short term outlook is grim.  I fear that the death rate is about to go up in the next couple of months before vaccines are widely distributed.  We're reaching the limits of the number of patients we have the trained medical staff to fully handle and the case trajectory is going up.

As for the flu vs the coronavirus?  The coronavirus is clearly far more dangerous and deadly, and takes far more to contain than the flu.  At least before vaccines are widely available.

Edited by Timothy
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Dutch13
On 11/21/2020 at 10:24 PM, Timothy said:

We have the 12th highest number of deaths per capita worldwide.  

You may have seen that I thought President Trump did a HORRIBLE job in 2020 with his messaging around Covid.   About 80% of the time, if he would have just chosen to be quiet or repeat verbatim what Fauci said, he would have won re-election.

That said, I don't think he could have DONE anything differently and saved many more lives.   He closed off travel from the origin point.  When we realized that they were coming in from Europe, he temporarily closed that entry point. 

They wanted ventilators, he got ventilators. They wanted hospital beds, he got them new hospitals, hospital ships, and military field hospitals.

When he made attempts to do other things........the governors pushed back and demanded the 10th Amendment be recognized.

Our country is comprised of 50 states united together and those states have the legal right to tell the federal government to mind it's own business......which several governors did during Covid.

Don't you remember in May all the rallies of Trump supporters demanding the states re-open for business and democrat governors telling them NO.......and then a few weeks later, all those same democrat governors allowing their citizens to riot for weeks?  

President Trump tried to shut down the riots with federal agents......but the democrat governors said no.

So, yes.........we have a lot covid deaths......but that isn't Trump's fault.  The American people chose to go shopping, to church, to protests, to riots, etc.   Nobody forced any American to go to those places. 

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Ladybird
12 minutes ago, Dutch13 said:

You may have seen that I thought President Trump did a HORRIBLE job in 2020 with his messaging around Covid.   About 80% of the time, if he would have just chosen to be quiet or repeat verbatim what Fauci said, he would have won re-election.

That said, I don't think he could have DONE anything differently and saved many more lives.   He closed off travel from the origin point.  When we realized that they were coming in from Europe, he temporarily closed that entry point. 

They wanted ventilators, he got ventilators. They wanted hospital beds, he got them new hospitals, hospital ships, and military field hospitals.

When he made attempts to do other things........the governors pushed back and demanded the 10th Amendment be recognized.

Our country is comprised of 50 states united together and those states have the legal right to tell the federal government to mind it's own business......which several governors did during Covid.

Don't you remember in May all the rallies of Trump supporters demanding the states re-open for business and democrat governors telling them NO.......and then a few weeks later, all those same democrat governors allowing their citizens to riot for weeks?  

President Trump tried to shut down the riots with federal agents......but the democrat governors said no.

So, yes.........we have a lot covid deaths......but that isn't Trump's fault.  The American people chose to go shopping, to church, to protests, to riots, etc.   Nobody forced any American to go to those places. 

But Trump told them wearing a mask is unnecessary and even spiteful (to him).

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Dutch13
18 minutes ago, Ladybird said:

But Trump told them wearing a mask is unnecessary and even spiteful (to him).

That would be addressed in the very first line of my post.

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Ladybird
3 minutes ago, Dutch13 said:

That would be addressed in the very first line of my post.

Yes. Mea culpa.

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MontyPython
4 hours ago, Timothy said:

Limiting the virus isn't all or nothing.  It has both been far worse than it had to be, and a lot better than it could have been.

Without all the steps taken, the impact would have been far worse.  Probably at least a million deaths, if not 2-3 million.  The lockdowns gave us time to develop treatments to lower the death rate and prevent our medical system from being overwhelmed.

At the same time, it's been far worse than it had to be, both in terms of deaths and the economic impact.  Many countries have had a far better outcome.  Notably Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Germany, and Canada have had a fraction of the cases and deaths per capita.  Economic and reopening policies have been consistent or always coherent (why are bars open in some places but not elementary schools?  Why haven't we moved more things, especially schools, outside?)

And the news is very mixed right now.  The mid term outlook with vaccines is very good, but the short term outlook is grim.  I fear that the death rate is about to go up in the next couple of months before vaccines are widely distributed.  We're reaching the limits of the number of patients we have the trained medical staff to fully handle and the case trajectory is going up.

As for the flu vs the coronavirus?  The coronavirus is clearly far more dangerous and deadly, and takes far more to contain than the flu.  At least before vaccines are widely available.

 

No, it isn't "more dangerous and deadly" than the flu virus. That's the propaganda, not the truth. But no worries, I've been aware for many years that you will buy into any level of propaganda as long as it's anti-Trump.

Sad, that.

<_< 

 

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Taggart Transcontinental
On 11/21/2020 at 9:24 PM, Timothy said:

We have the 12th highest number of deaths per capita worldwide.  

Uh huh, adding the people that Kovid killed by forcing them to fall off ladders. Got it.

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Taggart Transcontinental
8 hours ago, Dutch13 said:

You may have seen that I thought President Trump did a HORRIBLE job in 2020 with his messaging around Covid.   About 80% of the time, if he would have just chosen to be quiet or repeat verbatim what Fauci said, he would have won re-election.

That said, I don't think he could have DONE anything differently and saved many more lives.   He closed off travel from the origin point.  When we realized that they were coming in from Europe, he temporarily closed that entry point. 

They wanted ventilators, he got ventilators. They wanted hospital beds, he got them new hospitals, hospital ships, and military field hospitals.

When he made attempts to do other things........the governors pushed back and demanded the 10th Amendment be recognized.

Our country is comprised of 50 states united together and those states have the legal right to tell the federal government to mind it's own business......which several governors did during Covid.

Don't you remember in May all the rallies of Trump supporters demanding the states re-open for business and democrat governors telling them NO.......and then a few weeks later, all those same democrat governors allowing their citizens to riot for weeks?  

President Trump tried to shut down the riots with federal agents......but the democrat governors said no.

So, yes.........we have a lot covid deaths......but that isn't Trump's fault.  The American people chose to go shopping, to church, to protests, to riots, etc.   Nobody forced any American to go to those places. 

Still vapid and now taking a victory lap? Do you think that his messaging was what cost him the fake election so far? It wasn't messaging, it was voter fraud. Now go back to your ambidexterous back patting. You fit the bill of a standard Romney bot.

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Taggart Transcontinental
8 hours ago, Ladybird said:

But Trump told them wearing a mask is unnecessary and even spiteful (to him).

No he didn't say that, he also said you can wear a mask if you want to, however they do not work. That's still a fact. If that weren't a fact then how is this crap spreading in places that the law enforcement agencies ENFORCE mask wearing?

If you bothered to think critically you wouldn't be a democrat so I won't hold it against you.

Incidentally for everyone here. Taiwan has a smartmatic manufacturing plant AND office work. Wonder why a Navy Admiral went there yesterday? Same with Philippines. Looks like more intrigue is afoot!

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Joe the Pagan
On 11/21/2020 at 10:24 PM, Timothy said:

We have the 12th highest number of deaths per capita worldwide.  

What do the states with the highest death rates all have in common?

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MontyPython
27 minutes ago, Joe the Pagan said:

What do the states with the highest death rates all have in common?

 

Ooh!    Ooh!   Pick me!    Pick me!

:wave: 

 

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Timothy
12 hours ago, Dutch13 said:

You may have seen that I thought President Trump did a HORRIBLE job in 2020 with his messaging around Covid.   About 80% of the time, if he would have just chosen to be quiet or repeat verbatim what Fauci said, he would have won re-election.

Agreed.

12 hours ago, Dutch13 said:

That said, I don't think he could have DONE anything differently and saved many more lives.   He closed off travel from the origin point.  When we realized that they were coming in from Europe, he temporarily closed that entry point. 

They wanted ventilators, he got ventilators. They wanted hospital beds, he got them new hospitals, hospital ships, and military field hospitals.

When he made attempts to do other things........the governors pushed back and demanded the 10th Amendment be recognized.

Our country is comprised of 50 states united together and those states have the legal right to tell the federal government to mind it's own business......which several governors did during Covid.

Don't you remember in May all the rallies of Trump supporters demanding the states re-open for business and democrat governors telling them NO

A few thoughts:

1) I don't think "what he said" and "what he did" can be completely separated... a big part of his job with the virus, and of any President in any crises, is the messaging.  It had and has a real world impact on people's actions.  Masks became politicized in large part because of him.  So did other basic precautions.  More people taking basic precautions would have saved both jobs and lives.

2) Certainly people bore a lot of individual responsibility as well, and there are many other factors beyond what the President did and didn't do.  It's not all about the President, but he is a major factor.

3) You're right that the 10th amendment is a big consideration, but there are still a lot of things he could have done.  The rollout of testing was bungled.  There are a lot of things the federal government could have aggressively pursued.  Maybe some states would have resisted, but I don't think they would have if the federal government was the one paying for it.  A robust contact tracing system.  Converting hotels into free facilities for people to isolate (including meals brought to them) instead of depending on people to self isolate.  Yes it would have cost a lot, but been far cheaper than dealing with the consequences.

4) This is on every branch of the federal government, but the stimulus funding should have been a lot more focused on keeping workers paid through their employers even if they weren't working and keeping businesses afloat while they were closed.  Effectively put those businesses on "pause" in a way that kept the financial impact of being closed neutral.

5) Provided money and a national program to move schools, especially elementary schools, outside.  Every park and school parking lot should have been converted into an outdoor school.

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Timothy
8 hours ago, MontyPython said:

 

No, it isn't "more dangerous and deadly" than the flu virus. That's the propaganda, not the truth. But no worries, I've been aware for many years that you will buy into any level of propaganda as long as it's anti-Trump.

Sad, that.

<_< 

 

You really think it's all about Trump?

First, the idea that the virus is very deadly and hard to curtail isn't necessarily "anti-Trump".  The deadlier the virus is, the easier it is to give Trump credit for it not being a lot worse.

Second, Are you at all paying attention to what's going on in the rest of the world?  Do you think the health departments in other countries are exaggerating the virus to such an extreme degree just to hurt Trump?  That the many other countries that have also imposed severe lockdowns and taken severe measures to curtail the virus would be doing so if it wasn't any worse than the flu?  Come on you're smarter than that.

Edited by Timothy
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Joe the Pagan
3 hours ago, Timothy said:

You really think it's all about Trump?

First, the idea that the virus is very deadly and hard to curtail isn't necessarily "anti-Trump".  The deadlier the virus is, the easier it is to give Trump credit for it not being a lot worse.

Second, Are you at all paying attention to what's going on in the rest of the world?  Do you think the health departments in other countries are exaggerating the virus to such an extreme degree just to hurt Trump?  That the many other countries that have also imposed severe lockdowns and taken severe measures to curtail the virus would be doing so if it wasn't any worse than the flu?  Come on you're smarter than that.

Forget the rest of the world.  What do the states with the highest death rates all have in common?  Here is a hint.  It had nothing with decisions made by President Trump.  It does have some thing to do with the decisions of governors of the states with the highest death rates.  One particular decision.  

Maybe I should ask Monty.  I know I will get an honest answer out of him. 

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MontyPython
4 hours ago, Timothy said:

You really think it's all about Trump?

First, the idea that the virus is very deadly and hard to curtail isn't necessarily "anti-Trump".  The deadlier the virus is, the easier it is to give Trump credit for it not being a lot worse.

Second, Are you at all paying attention to what's going on in the rest of the world?  Do you think the health departments in other countries are exaggerating the virus to such an extreme degree just to hurt Trump?  That the many other countries that have also imposed severe lockdowns and taken severe measures to curtail the virus would be doing so if it wasn't any worse than the flu?  Come on you're smarter than that.

 

Yes, I have indeed been paying attention to what's going on in the world. Have you looked at the north American maps displaying the centers of covid infections? Notice that arrow-straight line between the United States and Canada? Do you suppose the virus respects international borders? "Hey, we can't go over there! That's a different country!"

No, it's because, for purely partisan political reasons, here in America the "infection" rate (and especially the "death" rate) is being deliberately inflated with bogus crap. Got the yearly flu? COVID!! Fell down a flight of stairs? COVID!! Crashed your motorcycle? COVID!! And on and on and on. Your arbitrary dismissal of the IMPOSSIBLE reduction of the yearly flu by 95% demonstrates your refusal to accept the political facet behind the ridiculously inflated covid numbers.

B) 

 

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MontyPython
1 hour ago, Joe the Pagan said:

Maybe I should ask Monty.  I know I will get an honest answer out of him. 

 

:2up: 

 

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